Inks For Fine Nibs

[Vespagirl]

If this post is out there, please forgive me, but I am somewhat new to the variety of inks in the FP world (my one bottle of black lasting 25 years...) and I would love some input. I am curious what ink colors you al recommend for fine/extra fine Japanese nibs which have and still show their color.

 

I like darker colors, although not exclusively, but the problem I find is that the smaller nibs put down so little ink, it is hard to appreciate most colors. There is no distinguishing characteristics from lines so thin.

 

I find myself either with too many inks that look the same or vastly different inks just to make them distinguishable. The latter works, but then I end up with a lot of colors that are not great for everyday use or that just don't suit my needs.

 

I would love to hear what others have found.

[Bluey]

I would choose wetter inks from the likes of Noodlers, Diamine, and Iroshizuku. You may like to have a look at some of the reviews here.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/160612-index-of-ink-reviews/

 

J Herbin's won't work for you as they're on the watery/pale/pastely side, so they're a no no more than any other.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Bluey

[cattar]

Sailor.

 

You don't get as much color variation/shading/sheening from finer nibs as from broader nibs. Consider stubbing a fin or medium nib for some line variation and color variation.

 

Get samples, rather than bottles, until you find something you like.

Edited February 19, 2017 by cattar

[ENewton]

I find this to be a challenge also with some of my favorite inks, the blue-leaning or gray-leaning purples. They seem to need at least a Western fine to look purple, as opposed to blue or gray.

 

Like you, I tend to fill my finest pens with inks that look quite different from one another, for example Sailor Shigure (which looks like a dark indigo when the line is thin), Montblanc Lavender Purple or J Herbin Poussiere de Lune (which are also on the line of purples but lean much redder than Shigure), TAG Kyoto Soft Snow of Ohara (which looks blue-gray in an extra fine), and Robert Oster Purple Rock (which looks dark gray or sometimes, strangely, dark green, depending on the paper).

 

The only non-purple ink I use is Rohrer and Klingner Sepia, which is a brown and so also quite distinguishable from the others.

 

I tried Diamine Grape, and it looked definitely purple even in a Japanese fine, but I found it impractical to use because of flow problems.

 

I also sometimes use Pilot Iroshizuku Murasaki Shikibu, Pelikan Violet, and more rarely Rohrer and Klingner Solferino, but I find those suitable mainly for spring and early summer use.

[ac12]

BLACK

 

As you found the narrower the nib, the lighter the ink looks.

This is an optical illusion caused by seeing more paper than ink.

To compensate for that, I have had to go to DARK ink. And on some pens BLACK ink.

[Vespagirl]

Thank you all for the suggestions. Some of this was familiar but much (especially some of the specific inks which I have not tried) is new to me. Ah, more to sample/purchase 😉

[Ada]

Most of my pens are Japanese extra fines and fines. Of the darker and more "normal" color inks I've used, I'd suggest R&K Sepia (as ENewton already did), Namiki/Pilot Blue, R&K Salix, Iroshizuku Kon-Peki, Waterman Brown and R&K Scabiosa as inks that will look different from one another and from black and also dark enough to be legible. There also lots of good choices in the brighter/ less "normal" category.

[chromantic]

If a pen is laying down a sufficiently wet line, the line should be dark/defined no matter the width.

 

I use mostly fine - .4mm Sheaffer and Waterman, .5mm Pelikan, some .3mm Japanese - and can only vaguely recall a couple of instances where I thought the line was too pale therefrom. Even the Herbins I tried, much as I disliked them, didn't have this problem (though as Bluey pointed out, they do make a few really pale colors that are hard to see even with wide nibs).

[Ada]

If a pen is laying down a sufficiently wet line, the line should be dark/defined no matter the width.

 

I use mostly fine - .4mm Sheaffer and Waterman, .5mm Pelikan, some .3mm Japanese - and can only vaguely recall a couple of instances where I thought the line was too pale therefrom. Even the Herbins I tried, much as I disliked them, didn't have this problem (though as Bluey pointed out, they do make a few really pale colors that are hard to see even with wide nibs).

 

 

That's generally true, but it depends on the ink and your eyesight. R&K Helianthus, Herbin Vert Olive, and Diamine Jade Green immediately come to mind as inks that aren't legible for me in Japanese extra fines.

[Ada]

Chromantic's post made me realize that I partly misunderstood the original post. I thought you were asking for suggestions of inks that look different from black, but now realize that you were asking which inks are distinctive and show their colors well.

 

I love Tsutsuji in Japanese extra fines -- I think it would be overwhelming in a wider nib, but it is cheerful and distinctive in an extra fine. The same is true of Solferino and Fuyu-gaki. I think R & K Alt-Goldgrun is beautiful in a Japanese fine, but not as nice in a Japanese extra fine. R & K Sepia is lovely and looks very different from other browns I've tred (Waterman Brown, Diamine Dark Brown) in a Japanese extra fine. Namiki/Pilot Blue looks equally as good (in my opinion) in Japanese extra fines as it does in a Western extra fine. Waterman South Seas Blue (I can't remember the new name) and Iroshizuku Kon-peki are equally gorgeous in Japanese extra fines and Western extra fines. I don't think I'd appreciate Scabiosa more in a Western fine than I do in a Japanese extra fine. That's not a comprehensive list, but probably more than you were looking for.

[Vespagirl]

If a pen is laying down a sufficiently wet line, the line should be dark/defined no matter the width.

 

I use mostly fine - .4mm Sheaffer and Waterman, .5mm Pelikan, some .3mm Japanese - and can only vaguely recall a couple of instances where I thought the line was too pale therefrom. Even the Herbins I tried, much as I disliked them, didn't have this problem (though as Bluey pointed out, they do make a few really pale colors that are hard to see even with wide nibs).

I understand what you are saying, and the color is there, but the line is so thin that it is harder to appreciate (that still is not the right word) the color. For example, I have a beautiful burgundy which looks fantastic in my stub. When I put it in my Platinum fine, there was no definition; it was almost like a black. I will split hairs over various shades of blue or blue/black etc but I hate it when the color seems to lose its charm.

 

The same is true with other inks where they may not be confused with other colors, but the shade is totally altered with the fine line. I've learned to expect and adapt for it, but there are the inks that thrive in this type of pen? Think of all of the inks that love those wet nibs and reward the owners with glorious shading in exchange for the drying time; I guess I'm trying to see if there are inks out there with these sweet little nibs in mind as well. I know there will not be the shading, but true, glorious color or something. These are fantastic pens that should be loved as much as those wet monster.

 

Ok, I've spent the whole night working with pens and clearly it has affected my brain. Tirade ended.

[chromantic]

^^ vespagirl - Ah, yes, I see what you're getting at. I thought you meant "black looks grey because the line is so thin". I've found that fine nibs exhibit more shading where the shading is actually the result of sheen (rather than just a greater amount of the same color) - inks like Yama-guri, Skrip Turquoise, Waterman Inspired Blue or Harmonious Green, etc.

[LizEF]

I understand what you are saying, and the color is there, but the line is so thin that it is harder to appreciate (that still is not the right word) the color. For example, I have a beautiful burgundy which looks fantastic in my stub. When I put it in my Platinum fine, there was no definition; it was almost like a black. I will split hairs over various shades of blue or blue/black etc but I hate it when the color seems to lose its charm.

 

This has been my experience - a truly dark ink of any color will appear black out of a Japanese EF / F. I understand the theory that less ink should be lighter, but that hasn't been my experience. Diamine Denim, for example, looked black. To see its color, it needed a broader nib. And I have yet to try an ink so light that it looked washed out or hard to read from an EF nib.

 

So, your challenge will be to find an ink dark enough to look like a dark version of the color but not so dark as to look black. I'm not sure I can help there as I prefer brighter colors.

 

I've been giving serious thought to doing ink reviews explicitly for EF users since the vast majority of ink reviews out there only include western fine and / or broader nibs (even if there's an EF, it's usually a broader and/or wetter EF), but I don't have the tools for accurately reproducing the color, and without that, it seems pointless. Maybe eventually.

[Vespagirl]

LizEF, that is exactly what I am experiencing. Thank you for doing a far better job of conveying the problem than I have been.

 

There is the added challenge that many inks to not have a middle ground in terms of color where the F/EF nib is concerned. There are the darks, which will tend to the blackish coloring and there are lights, which have the color but, generally, lack the richness of the broader nib. Medium shade inks tend to write lighter or on the dark end of their spectrum rather than displaying that lovely middle ground. Maybe that is the issue.

 

Again, I have found some that work, but I love hearing all of the wonderful ideas and insights this forum can offer. Besides, I'm a teacher and we always say that there is never a dumb question and it never hurts to ask.

 

I would love the see the F/EF ink review if you ever do it LizEF!

[ac12]

One difficulty is if you have a pen WET enough to put down a lot of ink, to make a dark ink line, then you may have the problem of a long dry time.

So you use a dryer nib (or adjust the nib for less ink flow), and the ink line isn't as dark because the pen isn't putting down so much ink.

Tricky balance.

 

You can't always increase the ink flow easily, so you may be stuck with a dryish writing pen, that does not put down a dark ink line.

 

The other factor is the paper.

I found that some papers show the color of the ink much better than other papers.

If the paper absorbs the ink, it will look lighter in color than a hard surface paper that leaves most of the dye on the surface of the paper.

[displacermoose]

I find that medium to dark shades that are very intense work wonderfully in ef nibs. Sailor Sei-boku works very well for me as does Pilot Yama-budo.

[Vespagirl]

Thank you. Those are two I have not tried

[knarflj]

I haven't read all the responses, so forgive me if I repeat someone, but off the top of my head, some of the inks I like in my Japanese fine nibbed pens are De Atramentis Jane Austen and William Shakespeare, MontBlanc Lavender Purple, Diamine Amazing Amethyst, Amaranth, and Ancient Copper, Sailor Jentle Blue. All of these give me some shading, although it's a lot more subtle in a fine nib than it would be in a broad, and all of them show their colour distinctly, although they do tend to look darker for the most part than they would with a larger nib. Amaranth, for instance, tends to look less pink and more red (but a pinkish red) in the Prera, so that's been my editing/grading pen and ink combo for years.

 

Ancient Copper has a particular affinity for one Prera in particular - they just seem made for each other (as long as you don't mind a little nib creep/crud) - but it doesn't play well at all with my Metropolitan; this makes no sense to me, but so it is.

 

Jenny

[SpecTP]

I use Sailor, Diamine, Iroshizuku and J Herbin inks with my pens which are predominantly F or EF nibs. I find most of them to be sufficiently wet and easy flowing.

Edited February 21, 2017 by SpecTP

[Bo Bo Olson]

I find western EF too narrow for shading inks....with F being as thin as that goes and M being good for shading too.

 

So you choice is simple...if you want to use Western XXF nibs/Japanese EF, you need vivid, (boring) monotone supersaturated darker inks.

 

Wet inks...as wet as you can find. That will add width to your nib....making it only Japanese F, or western EF.

Again if you want XXF then you can't use the wettest inks around.

 

Wider nibs gives you more of the ink.

 

The paper you use makes a difference in line width, too.