Mb146: Do You Need To Run In The Nib?

[mercurius]

I have just bought a mB 146 and love the heft and balance of the pen. It's what I've been looking for for a long time!

However I'm finding the nib a bit stiff and dry. Do you have to run these nibs in before they soften up a bit, and if do how long does it take?

[meiers]

Modern 146 don't have any significant flex.

 

In my experience, the character of a brand new nib doesn't change significantly with use. I like my nibs wet and returned two of my brand new 146s for adjustment.

 

In your shoes, I'd use the pen for about two weeks and if it still displeased after that trial period, return it for a nib exchange or adjustment.

 

Could you show us a writing sample?

Edited March 20, 2016 by meiers

[jamesgibby]

I have found that nibs vary from pen to pen and this reflects their hand made nature.

 

I do confess that after daily use the nibs settle a bit for me and any skipping goes away.

 

I do tend to go for EF or F but have been trying M's and B's but a bit too wet for my taste lol

[CS388]

Could it be an ink flow issue?

 

If your pen is brand new, or is an old pen which hasn't been used for a long time, increased usage may improve the ink flow and this could enhance the writing experience. The nib will never actually 'soften up', but once the ink is flowing freely, it should seem less dry and stiff.

 

If you've just got it, I'd keep using it for a while, to see if it improves. If it's a brand new pen, this should happen relatively quickly. If it's an old pen, it may have dried up ink in the feed channels and may need a few good flushes and soaks before things start flowing freely.

If it doesn't improve at all, the problem may be deeper seated and you may have to look at tweaking the nib or sending it off to an expert (or back to Montblanc, if it's new).

 

Let us know how you get on.

Fingers crossed.

[wimg]

In addition to meiers' comments, there actually is no such thing as running in a nib. Neither is it so that it is "dangerous" to let someone else write with your fountain pen, because it might "adjust" itself to the new user. The only dangerous thing in the latter case is with someone who doesn't know or can't handle a fountain pen properly .

 

All that is required, with regard to running in a nib, is the development of some "hand memory", i.e., that you automatically hold the pen correctly for you to be able to write nicely with it . That should take only days if that long.

 

Of course there could be other issues, preventing a pen from writing nicely or pleasantly, however.

One thing to do would be to try an easy-flowing ink first, like Waterman Florida Blue, Blue Black, South Seas Blue, or Violet.

If the pen and nib still don't write nicely with any oen of these inks (just one, mind you, no need to try all of them), I'd suggest you send it in fro nib replacement.

 

Do please make sure you hold the pen at an angle of approximately 45 to 60 degrees in the plane perpendicular to the writing surface, though - that is the optimum writing angle which European fountain pens and nibs normally are designed for.

 

If you'd want a soft nib, or softer nib, you may have to specify that when doing a nib exchange. However, that may not be a free exchange if it si not one of the standard offerings for your particular model.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[jar]

In my experience new pens often require several days to run in the user.

 

Fortunately humans are adaptable multi-purpose tools.

[Valdair]

Montblanc specifically says that you are permitted to do the nib exchange within six weeks, but only if the nib has not been used. This seems ludicrous to me. Is it just poorly worded, or do you have to decide whether or not you like the nib (size, grind, etc.) before you ever use it?

[mercurius]

Modern 146 don't have any significant flex.

 

In my experience, the character of a brand new nib doesn't change significantly with use. I like my nibs wet and returned two of my brand new 146s for adjustment.

 

In your shoes, I'd use the pen for about two weeks and if it still displeased after that trial period, return it for a nib exchange or adjustment.

 

Could you show us a writing sample?

Thanks. I bought secondhand so there's no option to request a nib swap. My handwriting is appalling, so wouldn't want to put it on the Internet!

[mercurius]

In addition to meiers' comments, there actually is no such thing as running in a nib. Neither is it so that it is "dangerous" to let someone else write with your fountain pen, because it might "adjust" itself to the new user. The only dangerous thing in the latter case is with someone who doesn't know or can't handle a fountain pen properly .

 

All that is required, with regard to running in a nib, is the development of some "hand memory", i.e., that you automatically hold the pen correctly for you to be able to write nicely with it . That should take only days if that long.

 

Of course there could be other issues, preventing a pen from writing nicely or pleasantly, however.

One thing to do would be to try an easy-flowing ink first, like Waterman Florida Blue, Blue Black, South Seas Blue, or Violet.

If the pen and nib still don't write nicely with any oen of these inks (just one, mind you, no need to try all of them), I'd suggest you send it in fro nib replacement.

 

Do please make sure you hold the pen at an angle of approximately 45 to 60 degrees in the plane perpendicular to the writing surface, though - that is the optimum writing angle which European fountain pens and nibs normally are designed for.

 

If you'd want a soft nib, or softer nib, you may have to specify that when doing a nib exchange. However, that may not be a free exchange if it si not one of the standard offerings for your particular model.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

Thanks for your suggestions. I need to get used to holding it correctly. Am using MB Royal Blue. I do sense that nibs change a bit with use, do I'll see how it goes. If it doesn't improve I'll get it tweaked by a nibmeister. Edited March 22, 2016 by mercurius

[Pen Nut]

"Neither is it so that it is "dangerous" to let someone else write with your fountain pen"

 

Now then back on planet Earth...........

 

Do like the term 'run in' Not heard that in many years.

 

Write, enjoy and if the nib isn't for you have an exchange done ar get a 'nib man' to tune it to your liking.

[Pravda]

I got all my MBs new and can report the following journey:

 

If the nib is at 95% it usually improves to 100% with time. Use it for a bit.

 

If it is at 85%, I ever so lightly tweak tines/tip and hope for the best. If it doesn't improve, I exchange.

 

If it is at below 80% I just go for an exchange.

 

The MB policy for exchanges is tricky I admit. But I think they generally mean: if you bring it back to us in the condition we sold it to you, i.e no scratches, dings, etc we'll take it. Just take care of it cosmetically.

[wimg]

Montblanc specifically says that you are permitted to do the nib exchange within six weeks, but only if the nib has not been used. This seems ludicrous to me. Is it just poorly worded, or do you have to decide whether or not you like the nib (size, grind, etc.) before you ever use it?

 

Yes, poorly worded if it is indeed worded like that.

 

It has to be in excellent condition, no alterations or damage .

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

Thanks for your suggestions. I need to get used to holding it correctly. Am using MB Royal Blue. I do sense that nibs change a bit with use, do I'll see how it goes. If it doesn't improve I'll get it tweaked by a nibmeister.

 

Honestly, modern nibs change even less with use than vintage nibs do, provided you treat them normally. Tipping has been improved vastly, and is supposed to last 40 years or more, so before you notice an effect, many years of writing would have gone by. Vintage nibs, which really use iridium ore as tipping, tend to be a little softer, etc., so there you'll notice changes more easily.

 

Once a pen's feed and filling system are cleaned properly, it really is your hand setting to the pen, not the other way around.

 

As tor tweaking a nib - I am fortunate enough to have an in-house nib master . Apart from tweaking other people's nibs, I have finally realized I should make a point of doing my own nibs too .

 

Warm regards, WIm

[meiers]

 

Honestly, modern nibs change even less with use than vintage nibs do, provided you treat them normally. Tipping has been improved vastly, and is supposed to last 40 years or more, so before you notice an effect, many years of writing would have gone by. Vintage nibs, which really use iridium ore as tipping, tend to be a little softer, etc., so there you'll notice changes more easily.

 

Once a pen's feed and filling system are cleaned properly, it really is your hand setting to the pen, not the other way around.

 

As tor tweaking a nib - I am fortunate enough to have an in-house nib master . Apart from tweaking other people's nibs, I have finally realized I should make a point of doing my own nibs too .

 

Warm regards, WIm

The last time I attempted to "tweak" a nib it sustained serious damage.

 

Wim, how did you develop your skills?

 

Regards, Matt

[Pen Nut]

The last time I attempted to "tweak" a nib it sustained serious damage.

 

Wim, how did you develop your skills?

 

Regards, Matt

 

Oh I think we have all been there ! One thing a respected nib man once told me is " if you take too much off you cant put it back " carried that with me and take it VERY easy when doing nibs.

 

It is amazing how even a 12,000 grade sheet of micromesh can remove metal. Dont ask how i know

[wimg]

Hi Matt,

 

The last time I attempted to "tweak" a nib it sustained serious damage.

Wim, how did you develop your skills?

Regards, Matt

 

 

It all started even before FPN, trying to find a way to smooth my Waterman Edson's M nib. It was very hard to find the relevant information back then, and it was quite a bit of interesting trial and error.

I wrote an article for PenTrace on my experiences, and it is available here on FPN as well:

Grinding Nib Experiences, by wimg

It is also referenced in the pinned Nib Info references topic, pinned at the top of the Of Nibs & Tines forum.

 

I have moved on from there since , and commercially do grind or reshape and smoothen nibs, adjust ink flow etc. I have bene responsible for adjustments and regrinds of the last batch of FPN 2012 pens, and also for all of our current FPN Blue Pearl LEs, and have modified and smoothed many, many other nibs by now (including Montblanc nibs) - I have lost count to be very honest.

 

My methods have evolved as well over the years, especially in the first few years, as I now exclusively use mylar (Micro Finishing Film and International Lapping Film) and some special grind "stones" for my small "bench grinder". The latter I only use to remove significant amounts of tipping, something I always try to prevent if I can, as I find it a shame to shorten the life span of a nib's tipping. Most of my work I do manually - takes more time, but often is much more exact. And as I tend to be a perfectionist .... <ROFL>

 

In the end, it really is a matter of patience, and also of leaving alone at times. Amazingly enough, what still feels slightly scratchy or rough when you are busy with it, when you let it lie for a few days, it suddenly becomes very smooth indeed. This, IMO, has all to do with "hand memory" and getting possibly lost too much in the process - continuing when you are "lost" in that process, certainly could result in damaging the nib.

 

I also do special grinds, duo-points for one, and also do things which are supposed to be impossible, from a theoretical POV, such as double (duo-point) Left Footed Oblique Italics, i.e., a nib which writes like an LFO Italic both when used normally, but also in reverse . And recently I developed a completely new nib type, the Varitalic , an italic nib which varies in roundedness when going from a very low angle (very rounded), to a very high one (sharp), and being cursive at intermediate angles for normal and quick writing. Very time consuming and expensive to do, however, as it requires a completely manual approach for the grind - 6 to 8 hours or more, depending on the initial tipping available. I love these challenges, however .

 

BTW, hardest nibs to grind or smoothen in my experience are modern nibs with very high quality and very hard ruthenium/osmium alloy tipping, such as Lamy, Pelikan, Visconti and, yes, Montblanc nibs. Bock nibs tend to be much easier to do, as well as Japanese nibs, but easiest generally speaking are vintage nibs, especially when they have real Iridium points, i.e., rounded pieces of Iridium ore as tipping. The latter one has to be even more careful with, because the ore (and hence tipping!) may well have tiny cracks or other embedded irregularities, and exposing those in the grinding or smoothing process obviously has a deleterious effect on the tipping.

 

Anyway, some of my thoughts on (re)grinding and/or smoothing nibs .

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

 

[wimg]

 

Oh I think we have all been there ! One thing a respected nib man once told me is " if you take too much off you cant put it back " carried that with me and take it VERY easy when doing nibs.

 

It is amazing how even a 12,000 grade sheet of micromesh can remove metal. Dont ask how i know

 

Yep .

 

Patience and giving it time are the key words <ROFL>.

 

Having said that, it is best to start simple, i.e., smoothing nibs rather than doing regrinds - I fixed a botched LFO yesterday, done by someone who immediately tried to create a wide LFO without ever having tried to do nib work before . It now is a duo-point F Italic / XXF Italic - probably still needs a little work, but that was the point where I left it to rest for a few days (see above ). Oh, and BTW, that pen is a 146 .

 

Warm regards, Wim

[meiers]

Thanks. I am going to do some reading later.

[FredRydr]

I have just bought a mB 146 and love the heft and balance of the pen....

 

Do you have to run these nibs in before they soften up a bit, and if do how long does it take?

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/305218-breaking-in-a-new-149/?p=3585233

Edited March 23, 2016 by FredRydr

[wimg]

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/305218-breaking-in-a-new-149/?p=3585233

 

 

 

That's what we said, isn;t it?

 

Except for the 5000 wpm limit the first month - I don't agree with that .

You should really rev up and down slowly, to get it used to those faster speeds, and slowly increase top speed .

And once you have written a novel, you can finally go ahead and get up to full speed .

 

Warm regards, Wim