Parker 51; Why Not Bring It Back?

[Sailor Kenshin]

Anyone using or used the Hero copy of the 51? They are manufactured currently. Is it an exact copy of the Parker 51 ?

I have a few of the vintage models. Very nice writers, and they were my first hooded pens. They just 'disappear' in my hand when I'm writing, which is a plus for me.

[pajaro]

If all the vintage P51's were all gone tomorrow I would fire up my P21's.

I don't know about that. I have a couple of Super 21s and a couple of P21s, and the Super is more super.

 

If I didn't have a 51, I'd be resizing the enormous wet nib on my 61 so it could be used. Or using a MB or a BP.

 

There's nothing quite like a 51. .

[Mangrove Jack]

They're close enough of a funtional copy to practise nib-collector-hood alignment on, sealing the threads, tine adjustment, that sort of thing. The materials of these are different to the 51 and their dimensions are not identical either. The breather tube does not have the 51's aerometric hole.

 

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/flounder2009/Hero%20616%20Nib%20Alignment/Hero616nibalign5.jpg

 

 

They bothered to give the ink sac 51-style flow channels, I think that's a nice touch.

 

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/flounder2009/Hero%20616/Hero616Jumbo-DoctorBreather001.jpg

 

 

Consiering the rubbish that passes for a cap in most Chinese cheapies, it's really surprising that they went to the trouble to fit a pressed-in steel cap clutch, or attempt at venting the inner cap.

 

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/flounder2009/Hero%20616%20Cap%20Adjustment%20Fix/Hero616Adjustements019_640x480.jpg

 

 

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/flounder2009/Hero%20616%20Cap%20Adjustment%20Fix/Hero616Adjustements020_640x480.jpg

 

You never read about these things in 616 reviews!

Flounder, thank you for the detailed answer and the pics. I will now appreciate my Hero more.

For those that want Parker to make the 51 again, until then, buy and use the Hero copy.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Mangrove Jack

[kapanak]

If Hero had access to Parker 51 production documents, I would bet they could produce a very identical clone, even better than their current offering. Of course materials and machining wouldn't be the same, but mass production is so efficient and streamlined in China, they could make perfectly usable molds

[Freddy]

 

Your friend and mine

 

Fred

 

PS Of course this is my personal opinion

and other opinions will differ.

 

{anotherfreakin'happysmileyfacetimethingie}

[MisterP]

Th Parker 51 for the 21st century is called the iphone.

[mitto]

Well, in this part of the world, it is called the Samsung (S6).

[pajaro]

Why not just bring it back? It would be amusing to see how the NR people would do with it. Better than the last attempt, one would hope. Sonnet barrel and cap? Hooded section?

[mitto]

That would be the Sonnet second refresh. Lol

[kapanak]

Sonnet Barrel and Cap certainly have the SHAPE of a 51's barrel and cap, sort of.

 

I have a feeling that no matter what Parker does if they were to bring a 51-like pen back, purists and collectors would ignore it, and it will be a commercial failure.

 

A Parker 65-like filling system would still allow the use of converters (and maybe cartridges), and a collector similar to 51 would serve the same purpose of not allowing the pen to dry out, so perhaps it can be done. Don't see them doing it though.

[pajaro]

Sonnet Barrel and Cap certainly have the SHAPE of a 51's barrel and cap, sort of.

 

I have a feeling that no matter what Parker does if they were to bring a 51-like pen back, purists and collectors would ignore it, and it will be a commercial failure.

 

A Parker 65-like filling system would still allow the use of converters (and maybe cartridges), and a collector similar to 51 would serve the same purpose of not allowing the pen to dry out, so perhaps it can be done. Don't see them doing it though.

 

Have you seen the Sonnet's feed? It's collector-like, and the pen tends to dry out. Cap issue.

 

You are right that collectors will pick apart any 51 revival. It is unlikely that a 51 would be revived exactly like the aero or vac 51s. So, if it has any problems, like cracking plastic, it becomes a leper in the market.

[FarmBoy]

I am willing to bet that IF a 51 were to be reintroduced it would cost more than the going rate for a restored "51" from the original production run.

 

Why not just by a restored "51" instead of asking why no one is remaking them?

 

BUT, if one insists on getting a 'new' 51 you could contact Ralph Prather or Brad Torelli, they both make 51s from scratch with the exception of the nib, feed, and collector and I suspect if needed, those could be made to suit.

 

Farmboy

[kapanak]

I am willing to bet that IF a 51 were to be reintroduced it would cost more than the going rate for a restored "51" from the original production run.

 

Why not just by a restored "51" instead of asking why no one is remaking them?

 

BUT, if one insists on getting a 'new' 51 you could contact Ralph Prather or Brad Torelli, they both make 51s from scratch with the exception of the nib, feed, and collector and I suspect if needed, those could be made to suit.

 

Farmboy

 

I suspect people who keep wishing for a revived Parker 51 also want it for the original price of $15, which makes completely custom pens out of their price range, as well as perfectly unused or mint condition Parker 51's. They can be found with some patience on eBay or elsewhere after all, sometimes for much less than even the higher end new Sonnet pens.

[FarmBoy]

 

I suspect people who keep wishing for a revived Parker 51 also want it for the original price of $15, which makes completely custom pens out of their price range, as well as perfectly unused or mint condition Parker 51's. They can be found with some patience on eBay or elsewhere after all, sometimes for much less than even the higher end new Sonnet pens.

Seems to me there are a lot of distorted expectations here. Some of the people you refer to will pay $50 for a TWSBI and then have Mike tune the nib for another $50 then whine when the cap breaks and complain 51s are to expensive.

 

We all want to buy 51s for $15, especially new old stock ones. It doesn't happen often. Just a guess but if Parker did reissue the "51" in the classic form it would cost >400 and be a premium line pen. It would most likely be an injection molded piece of junk reminiscent of the last version of the 51.

 

What exactly would be wrong with a rebuilt 51?

[kapanak]

Seems to me there are a lot of distorted expectations here. Some of the people you refer to will pay $50 for a TWSBI and then have Mike tune the nib for another $50 then whine when the cap breaks and complain 51s are to expensive.

 

We all want to buy 51s for $15, especially new old stock ones. It doesn't happen often. Just a guess but if Parker did reissue the "51" in the classic form it would cost >400 and be a premium line pen. It would most likely be an injection molded piece of junk reminiscent of the last version of the 51.

 

What exactly would be wrong with a rebuilt 51?

 

Great points! The expectations are too high. Parker 51's are perhaps the closest any fountain has come to forever lasting (or at least an average human life span), and often can be found for less than $100 in excellent or near mint conditions if one has patience and takes some risks. Just in the past week, I acquired what appear to be unused, never inked (but without any box or papers) two early 1950's aerometrics made in the USA, but with Canada-made nibs (and they have odd filler guard, with no plastic ending, but the nibs are dated 1953, and the barrel has a hole at its end). They worked perfectly fine out of the packaging, but I did open them to confirm dates and such, and cleaned them just in case.

 

If one wants a pen for using, and not for looking at in a shelf or box, then that $100 price point can be lowered further.

 

EDIT: As much as it may pain some collectors, I am going to use these NOS 51's. Pens are made for being used, and that's where they shine the best

Edited April 12, 2016 by kapanak

[JonSzanto]

Pens are made for being used, and that's where they shine the best

 

While some people believe that, it is not an indisputable fact. The reality is that an object can fulfill many functions and it is the owner of the object that determines how it will be enjoyed or admired. The pen, itself, knows nothing.

[Cryptos]

If Parker doesn't want to re-issue the 51 they could always sell the design to the new Esterbrook people. I'm sure that group could get something out that would look ever so vaguely like a Parker 51. At least it would probably have "Parker 51" emblazoned on the barrel.

 

 

I guess I'd better get me coat... http://fpgeeks.com/forum/images/smilies/smilies/bolt.gif

[kapanak]

 

While some people believe that, it is not an indisputable fact. The reality is that an object can fulfill many functions and it is the owner of the object that determines how it will be enjoyed or admired. The pen, itself, knows nothing.

 

I am certain this is not the first nor the last time such an argument has come up here, and as you say, there are always at least two perspective on the matter. Every hobby that involves an object that both has a practical usage and collection value shares the same two camps, eg. Cameras and Photography, Audiophiles, Fountain Pens, Guns, Blades, etc etc etc.

 

If Parker doesn't want to re-issue the 51 they could always sell the design to the new Esterbrook people. I'm sure that group could get something out that would look ever so vaguely like a Parker 51. At least it would probably have "Parker 51" emblazoned on the barrel.

 

 

I guess I'd better get me coat... http://fpgeeks.com/forum/images/smilies/smilies/bolt.gif

 

They certainly could do that. I am just not sure there is a market for it, or a point, given the countless Parker 51 pens out there, from absolutely mint NOS to user pens and below. And no matter how precise they make it, I have doubts it will be as durable or timeless as the original Parker 51 Vacs and first generation Aerometrics. And certainly will not be as cheap as buying currently available examples.

Edited April 12, 2016 by kapanak

[Beechwood]

'And certainly will not be as cheap as buying currently available examples'

 

And therein lies the problem. the Parker 51 is a plain design, a revised or reissued Parker 51 is not going to be priced alongside the Vector and would not win any sales from the Duofold.

 

The typical pen buyer is not an FPN watcher, they buy a pen that looks smart and fits their purpose, they buy it on the basis that it works perfectly. Parker reissued the Parker 51 and it failed costing them money in Warranty claims. Therefore Parker are unlikely to reissue the 51 because the last time they did so it cost them money and, in addition, the design doesnt fit what the typical high street buyer expects from a premium priced pen.

 

In addition the Parker accountants may need some convincing on why the 51 is better than the Frontier or the Lattitude.

 

 

 

 

[Matlock]

'And certainly will not be as cheap as buying currently available examples'

 

And therein lies the problem. the Parker 51 is a plain design, a revised or reissued Parker 51 is not going to be priced alongside the Vector and would not win any sales from the Duofold.

 

The typical pen buyer is not an FPN watcher, they buy a pen that looks smart and fits their purpose, they buy it on the basis that it works perfectly. Parker reissued the Parker 51 and it failed costing them money in Warranty claims. Therefore Parker are unlikely to reissue the 51 because the last time they did so it cost them money and, in addition, the design doesnt fit what the typical high street buyer expects from a premium priced pen.

 

In addition the Parker accountants may need some convincing on why the 51 is better than the Frontier or the Lattitude.

 

 

 

 

 

I would agree. However I am not too sure the warranty costs were the main reason (they no doubt had a bearing) the cracking barrel problem was quickly sorted and only affected a relatively small number of pens. The main problem was, as I have posted before, was that it was a "Sonnet in drag". I have a couple and find them competent pens but nothing special. But, as usual, YMMV.