Who Are The Diamond Point Collectors? Question...

[MarcShiman]

I have recently become... obsessed? Enamored?.... with Diamond Points lately, particularly the big flattop pens with the wild celluloids. I really like the ones with cap bands on the tops and bottoms of the caps.

 

I've been collecting them for about 2 years or so. At the DC show, I really got lucky and found about 5 of them. I have a lot of the standard celluloids of the day - jade green, coral, cracked ice, etc.

 

But I have never seen a Lapis Blue - that seems odd to me, although I really haven't been around them long enough for that to mean much. Does anyone have any Diamond Points (not Diamond Medals made in Chicago by National Pen - those I've seen in Lapis Blue) in any sort of blue color?

 

Looking forward to pictures.

[missuslovett]

The only Diamond Point I have is a bronze marble with a wide patterned cap band and they are lovely pens. You don't see them that often this side of the pond but a quick shuftie unearthed this...http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-DIAMOND-POINT-FOUNTAIN-PEN-PENCIL-SET-Art-Deco-GOLD-14K-Lever-Antique-/262155558436?hash=item3d09b05e24:g:p-sAAOSwys5WUfvq

[Greenie]

Here are my Diamond Point pens.

 

Two groups - Old eyedroppers

 

Then my "look alikes" along side their Parker dopplegangers.

 

 

 

[FredRydr]

I have recently become... obsessed? Enamored?.... with Diamond Points lately

 

Marc! Where will this lead?

 

Fred

[MarcShiman]

 

Marc! Where will this lead?

 

Fred

 

It will lead to me selling a lot of pens in order to buy Diamond Points.

 

Wife's rules.

[gweimer1]

It will lead to me selling a lot of pens in order to buy Diamond Points.

 

Wife's rules.

You and I may be talking soon....LOL.

I just took in a cool blue swirl/gray stripe model that I'm about to revive.

[MarcShiman]

People don't realize the value us Diamond Point collectors add to the business. We have to practically rebuild the whole pen in order for it to be useful.

[Redleg05]

An older thread, I know, but I was searching for "lapis blue Diamond Point" because I just found one today. I didn't know much about it (like, "did I pay too much at $33?"). I'm a relatively new collector who has just been buying what I find and what I like.

 

It has the stripes the OP mentioned. The thing was so pretty I had to buy it. #8 nib. The pen is not mint but not ugly. Definitely worthy of restoration.

 

If nobody has posted a picture yet I'll try to later.

 

So, it sounds like these are a bugger to restore?

[Redleg05]

Here it is, shots are from my iPhone. I don't have time to put the "full Isaacson" on them.

 

The Diamond Point has the double bands.

 

I also attached photos of another lapis pen (Webster) that I found a couple of weeks ago. (The triple band.) Both are "as found in the wild" with no clean up or restoration work. I think they'll display nicely together.

 

They are both about 7" posted and 5-1/4 capped, and both have 14k #8 nibs.

 

I hope to learn more about them. As I said earlier, I'm still a novice collector. Both cost about the same: $33 for the Diamond Point, $32 for the Webster.

 

They may not be Parkers or Sheaffer's, but I think they're both gorgeous.

[Redleg05]

So, Diamond Point "knocked off" Parker pens? Are they made from the same material?

 

They're very nice.

 

 

Here are my Diamond Point pens.

 

Two groups - Old eyedroppers

 

Then my "look alikes" along side their Parker dopplegangers.

[Greenie]

They look like the exact same material to me. Marc has been researching celluloid manufacturing in New Jersey and might have some insight.

[MarcShiman]

Diamond Point finds in LA Pen Show:

 

 

[MarcShiman]

They look like the exact same material to me. Marc has been researching celluloid manufacturing in New Jersey and might have some insight.

 

My theory on this, and its not proofed at all, is that Diamond Point (and other companies) were able to use celluloid patterns after they were no longer in use by the primary buyer. It sort of explains why Diamond Point was able to make a Green and Gold, Silver and Gold, Black and Gold, Red and Gold, but not Blue and Gold (which was what Waterman called Turquoise for their Patrician).

 

I'm guessing that the pens that Greenie showed were Diamond Point pens made after Parker discontinued their Challenger and Golden Web, and that the celluloid producer was allowed to release the pattern.

[MarcShiman]

 

I hope to learn more about them. As I said earlier, I'm still a novice collector. Both cost about the same: $33 for the Diamond Point, $32 for the Webster.

 

 

 

If you search Ebay sales, the blue DP sold recently for $255.

 

Guess who bid (quite confidently) $250?

[Redleg05]

Beautiful pens! I haven't been to a pen show yet. I will go to at least one this year.

 

<hold jealousy in check, be polite>

 

Nice haul, congratulations!

 

Diamond Point finds in LA Pen Show:

 

 

[Redleg05]

Your theory makes sense. I wonder, how would one go about verifying it? Are there Diamond Point catalogs showing the dates they made them (there seems to be lots on Parkers), or is information pretty sparse?

 

 

My theory on this, and its not proofed at all, is that Diamond Point (and other companies) were able to use celluloid patterns after they were no longer in use by the primary buyer. It sort of explains why Diamond Point was able to make a Green and Gold, Silver and Gold, Black and Gold, Red and Gold, but not Blue and Gold (which was what Waterman called Turquoise for their Patrician).

 

I'm guessing that the pens that Greenie showed were Diamond Point pens made after Parker discontinued their Challenger and Golden Web, and that the celluloid producer was allowed to release the pattern.

[MarcShiman]

I would imagine that we should find a half-dozen cases of celluloids unique to a particular major brand that were also used by lesser brands, and try to date them. I know that Greenie's pens were all post 1936, and possibly much later.

 

Literature for Diamond Point is somewhere between scarce to non-existent. There are some 1940's catalogs that I'm aware of, but that's really the lower end, steel nibbed stuff.

[Redleg05]

I guess I'd rather be lucky than good. I just thought it was a beautiful pen. It looks like I can send it off for restoration and not worry that I'll end up with an $80 pen worth $25.

 

I've been told that there are no more "finds" out there. I think "they" are wrong. I think enjoy the hunt as much as owning the pen (almost).

 

I note that your pen and the one that sold on Ebay had a single, wider gold cap band, while the one I found has two narrower ones. Does that signify anything (guessing the two narrower bands are a lesser model)? Judging from how yours fits in your pen tray, they look to me to be similar in size (5-1/4 or so capped). And the Ebay pen's #8 nib says "warranted" while mine says "Diamond Point." Is either one correct?

 

Thank you for the great information!

 

 

If you search Ebay sales, the blue DP sold recently for $255.

 

Guess who bid (quite confidently) $250?

[MarcShiman]

I note that your pen and the one that sold on Ebay had a single, wider gold cap band, while the one I found has two narrower ones. Does that signify anything (guessing the two narrower bands are a lesser model)? Judging from how yours fits in your pen tray, they look to me to be similar in size (5-1/4 or so capped). And the Ebay pen's #8 nib says "warranted" while mine says "Diamond Point." Is either one correct?

 

 

 

 

I'm sure that the cap bands would suggest what year it came from if we had literature. I have DP pens with single cap bands, dual cap bands, wide ones, cap bands on top and bottom of the cap - while it seems that they pens all come in different sizes, it seems that all the pens with the single cap band are the same length, and all the ones with dual cap bands are the same length, etc...

 

This picture comes from Jon Veley's blog http://leadheadpencils.blogspot.com.ng/2016/01/captain-obvious.html

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NU_mG3zAzS4/VqDIsp_rR_I/AAAAAAAAF_I/lcKntav8dn8/s1600/Collegian1a5.jpg

 

 

The Collegian Pen was made by Diamond Point, but its not clear what the other two pens are. "Guaranteed by manufacturer" is what is printed on the sides of Diamond Point pen boxes, so here goes another theory - All three pens were made by Diamond Point, and meant to be three price points. I'm guessing that perhaps the single band is the Ambassador, and the pens with the bands on the top and bottom of the cap are the Banker's Special. The ones with cap bands top and bottom seem to be of a higher quality, and I have three of them with only a D in a diamond on the clip. Looks exclusive.

 

There was also an Ambassador brand (made by J Harris) and a Banker (and New Banker) brand, but they were awful quality, much worse than the Collegian. And the picture has a stylograph nib, what appears to be a lever without the normal "D" on it, and a wide cap band. So who knows?

[Redleg05]

I think what I may do is try to find the three-ring Webster in a Sears catalog. Those catalogs seem out there in relative abundance. That might help cross reference the date of the blue Diamond Point. Both the Webster and the Diamond Point seem made of the same material. The color and feel are dead matches. (Does anybody have a mid-1920s Sears catalog or reprint kicking around?)

 

They are so closely matched, in fact, that it wouldn't surprise me at all if they came out of the same factory. The rout for the lever looks identical. Do you know offhand if Diamond Point ever made pens for Webster, or vice versa? Weren't both sold at Sears Roebuck at one point or another?

 

The thrill of the hunt, and a good mystery. What could be better?

 

I would imagine that we should find a half-dozen cases of celluloids unique to a particular major brand that were also used by lesser brands, and try to date them. I know that Greenie's pens were all post 1936, and possibly much later.

 

Literature for Diamond Point is somewhere between scarce to non-existent. There are some 1940's catalogs that I'm aware of, but that's really the lower end, steel nibbed stuff.