Paper-Bag Nib Smoothing

[Djehuty]

I tried the paper-bag method of nib-smoothing last night, to remove the plating on a new nib and improve the flow. The only problem is I'm not quite sure when to stop!

 

If the plating is silver in color, and the material under it is as well, how do I tell when it's gone? The flow seems to have improved somewhat, but I don't want to leave invisible bits of plating on the nib. Also, should a pen write in all angles, and should I thus get the plating off all sides of the tip?

 

[kissing]

If I'm ever in a situation of bag-sandpapering a round nib, I like to do it in 3 dimensional circular movements to make sure the nib is grinded evenly (thus hopefully retaining its roundness).

 

Knowing when to stop is elusive business. My golden rule is, if I'm very happy with how it writes, I stop. With nib smoothing, there is no "undo" function I've ruined a nib or two by going to far, actually

 

A nib actually smooths itself over time from the friction with the regular paper you write with. The brown paper bag method simply fastens that process. This means that even if you did sand a bit less than you could have (ie: microscopic bits of plating left on the nib), that will smooth itself out during normal use.

 

Personally, I wouldn't 'smooth' a round nib that writes ok, and is in factory condition. Sanding it on brown paper may leave the microscopic surface of the tipping less smooth than it was before (though it will smooth out again as you write more).

 

Anyhoo - i'm no expert on this, and I'll be looking forward to learning from what others who are more knowledgeable have to say

[Djehuty]

Yikes. I had no idea you could damage the nib tip! I thought the purpose was to remove the rhodium plating, and that the paper bag wasn't abrasive enough to damage the iridium tip.

 

Blast it all... Is there a better way to rid a nib of plating that may be causing it to skip? I just drew circles, lots and lots of circles, with the nib. I hope I didn't damage my new pen!

 

[Col]

I find 88888888, while 'rolling' the nib works best; perhaps followed by some \\\\////. I apply a little more pressure to the nib than I do when writing normally, and I do it with the pen inked.

 

If a fairly modest amount of brown-bagging didn't work, I wouldn't persist in it, but instead explore other causes of the perceived fault.

[Djehuty]

I did two rows of very tight loops across the bag, plus about half as much rolling it around the top and sides. Does that exceed the bounds of "fairly modest"? It did seem to help, and the ink flows smoothly now. Should I continue on the top and sides until I get good ink flow there as well (there's almost none at the moment), or should I just leave it alone and hope I haven't inflicted unseen damage?

 

[RonB]

That does not sound as if you overdid it. You should be fine. Ink flow problems are probably not going to be solved by this method, however.

[Col]

QUOTE (Djehuty @ Apr 9 2007, 05:26 PM)

I did two rows of very tight loops across the bag, plus about half as much rolling it around the top and sides.  Does that exceed the bounds of "fairly modest"?  It did seem to help, and the ink flows smoothly now.  Should I continue on the top and sides until I get good ink flow there as well (there's almost none at the moment), or should I just leave it alone and hope I haven't inflicted unseen damage?

That sounds very modest indeed - a little more would do no harm, imo. I have to qualify this by saying that I've never used this technique for the purpose of eliminating skipping, though. It's not the first thing I would try in an attempt to improve ink flow.

[Djehuty]

Perhaps I'm working on incorrect information. In another thread, someone said that skipping and poor flow in a new pen can be caused by the fact that when pen manufacturers plate the nib, the whole thing is plated, including the tip, and this has to be removed (as Richard Binder does) before it will write well.

 

I have a couple of new, inexpensive Chinese pens, and they don't have the best flow for which one could wish. The nibs are plated, and with one, which is gold-plated all over, it's easy to tell they coated the tip as well.

 

Is this a good time to start writing on a paper bag, or is there something else I ought to do?

 

[RonB]

Not that I am a pro by any means, but what I usually do if I can't find anything else wrong with the pen is look at the tines. If they are very close together and the ink flow is too dry, I use the brass sheeting sold by Tryphon and others to "floss" the tines to open them up a bit. This usually works for me.

 

I think what you may be describing is the "baby-bottom" problem of too round a nib formation that has too much space where the nib touches the paper. If that is the problem, I think you'll need something more aggressive than a brown paper bag to fix it. If this is the case, you should buy some micromesh or similar product, or send it out to be fixed.

 

Practicing on cheap pens is the way to learn nib work. I ruined a couple before I got the hang of it.

 

Good luck.

[Djehuty]

OK, now I'm confused. Plating on the nib-tip isn't a problem?

 

Pen newbie. Conflicting information. Confusion! Now I don't know where I live or what my name is!

 

[RonB]

QUOTE (Djehuty @ Apr 9 2007, 05:16 PM)

OK, now I'm confused. Plating on the nib-tip isn't a problem? Pen newbie. Conflicting information. Confusion! Now I don't know where I live or what my name is!

I am not familiar with the problem you mentioned. Maybe Richard or another nibmeister will chime in here.

[Hennypenny]

I remember the post you saw -- I saw it, too, a couple of weeks ago! I'd just purchased a Monteverde Laguna (half-price at the UW Bookstore!) and was having problems with it skipping. In fact, I returned it for a refund, and then saw the post you mentioned. So, I went and bought it back -- I did circles on almost all of one side of a brown paper bag. Now it writes just fine!!

 

So -- you're NOT crazy (well, not about the plating/brown paper bag post at least)! I, too, would like some clarification on this, although I must say, doing circles on a brown paper bag worked wonders for me!

 

HP

[kissing]

Sorry for the confusion

 

I too recall Mr. Binder informing in a post that he likes to remove the plating on the iridium tipping, to make the pens write better.

 

The brown paper bag method may fix the perceived problem you have with the pen skipping. When a pen skips due to the layer of plating, it is probably due to the "baby-bottom" effect. Sanding it down with paper bag does fix it up.

 

However, my only concern was that the brown bag method is a fairly crude method for fixing pens It does wonders on inexpensive pens that don't write very well, but it's not something I would do on a pricey pen.

 

Don't worry though - you haven't damaged your pen in any way at all. But yes, the brown paper bags do wear out some of the 'iridium' tipping, as well as the gold plating (Otherwise there wouldn't be much point )

[Djehuty]

OK... what would be a better method for removing excess plating, preferably without damaging the iridium tip?

 

The pens may be relatively inexpensive, but I can't afford to throw $20.00 bills out the window.

 

[Richard]

QUOTE (kissing @ Apr 9 2007, 10:32 PM)

I too recall Mr. Binder informing in a post that he likes to remove the plating on the iridium tipping, to make the pens write better.

But the statement to which you refer applies ONLY to gold-plated steel nibs. Djehuty's postings here imply that he has a rhorium-plated gold nib, and this means that there is no plating on the tipping material. None, nada, no way, nohow. On plated steel nibs, examination with a loupe will show that the tipping is gold colored. When you've worn the gold away, it'll be silvery gray the way it should be.

 

I am not a fan of brown-bagging it. (It's an utterly uncontrolled and uncontrollable method, similar to using worn-out emery paper because once it's worn out it's not excessively abrasive.) You may get results, you may not. You may get more than you bargained for. But if the problem is a baby-bottom nib, you can sand for a week on brown paper and still not take care of it. Maybe.

 

I realize that many pen users like to work on their own pens, but it's important that you know what you are doing as well as why you are doing it, and also how the technique you are using works. This is why professional car mechanics exist -- if we all fixed our own cars, we wouldn't need the pros. There are myriad reasons why any given nib might skip. It's simply not safe to go jumping in with a fix until you know what you're fixing.

[Hennypenny]

Thank you Richard for taking the time to clear that up!! That is valuable information for future reference.

 

I guess I got lucky with my nib "repair", but then I was prepared to give it a try and live with the results -- mine was an experiment with a relatively inexpensive nib. I would definitely leave adjustments to a good nib (or any nib I wasn't willing to sacrifice) to the experts.

 

Again, thanks!

[Djehuty]

Thank you for the clarification, Richard.

 

Let me see if I have this straight...

 

- If the tip of the nib is silver in color, it is not plated and needs nothing done to remove plating; any issues are something else entirely.

 

- If the tip of the nib is gold in color, it is plated, and something -- but not paper-bag smoothing -- needs to be done to remove the plating.

 

Is that correct? I was under the impression that even silver-colored nibs are plated with something, and the tip would also be plated, thus requiring this smoothing process.

 

Are there any fairly harmless techniques I can use to improve a cheap nib? Nothing on the level of the serious nib-tinkering, smoothing, re-grinding, etc. that a genuine nibmeister would do, but simple things that one could do to correct minor problems without ruining a nib. Also, when there is definitely gold plating on the nib tip, as there is on one of my pens, what can I do about it if the paper-bag thing is out?

 

[kissing]

I think there is proper paper available for this kind of thing. I believe tryphon's website has some "nib smoothing" kits available.

 

I only use brown paper bag, because it's all I can (bother) getting my hands on, due to the minimal amount of nib work I am exposed to.

 

I think Richard summed it up pretty well from the professional point of view, and he knows best Thanks for that.

[RonB]

I use the Tryphon products.

 

Here is a thread on nib smoothing:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...?showtopic=8221

[Djehuty]

QUOTE (kissing @ Apr 10 2007, 08:38 PM)

I think Richard summed it up pretty well from the professional point of view, and he knows best Thanks for that.

Oh, absolutely. I wouldn't dream of trying that, or anything, on my Pelikan or my VP.