Pilot Custom 74 Vs. 743 Vs. 823

[by78]

I'm looking to purchase some Pilot fountain pens. I prefer writing in small cursive. For example, on a Rhodia dot pad with 5mm ruling, my cursive As, Os, and Es take up just 1/3 of line height.

 

I would like to get these pens in Pilot medium, which I understand is usually finer than a Western medium and closer to a Western fine. I used Goulet's Nib Nook to compare the stroke widths for Pilot Custom 74 and 823. I found that Custom 823's medium stroke width is significantly thicker than that of 74.

 

So my questions are thus:

 

1) Is it your experience that a medium Custom 823 writes thicker than a medium Custom 74?

 

2) And since Custom 743 and 823 share the same nib, do they put down the same line thickness?

 

3) Do you think Custom 743 and 823 would fit my small cursive writing style?

 

Any writing sample comparison would be greatly appreciated, since I am unable to test the pens in a brick and mortar store.

 

Thank you all for your knowledge and guidance!

[nicholasyeo]

1) I find that the 823 does indeed write thicker. It is wetter too, that may explain it.

 

2) The Custom 743 and 823 will definitely have the same thickness if you order a nib

of the same kind. The nibs are both #15 nibs. Pity the 823 has no specialty nibs -

that is a tradeoff you have to make unless you can afford to buy both pens.

 

3) I am quite certain that your handwriting is rather small, so perhaps you could get

yourself a F nib. I have tried the F and I found it ideal for my writing. However, it can

get especially dry at times on the 823 and you may need to test it before buying.

The 823 has a special seal system which shuts off the ink valve!

 

Hope it helps, if only slightly.

Edited March 26, 2015 by nicholasyeo

[by78]

3) I am quite certain that your handwriting is rather small, so perhaps you could get

yourself a F nib. I have tried the F and I found it ideal for my writing. However, it can

get especially dry at times on the 823 and you may need to test it before buying.

The 823 has a special seal system which shuts off the ink valve!

 

Hope it helps, if only slightly.

 

Thank you for the confirmation that 823 writes thicker and wetter. How does it compare to a Western medium?

 

As for going for a Pilot <F> nib, I've tried it, but I found it too thin and gives too much feedback.

 

Thank you so much!

[lawrenceg]

If you want some specilaity nibs for the 823 look at the website for tokyopen shop quill.

I have one with a no 15 fa nib

[by78]

If you want some specilaity nibs for the 823 look at the website for tokyopen shop quill.

I have one with a no 15 fa nib

 

Unfortunately, I have zero confidence in my penmanship to fully take advantage of a FA nib.

[Dr.Grace]

I've found that the M nibs on the 74 and 823 are similar; the 823's nib might actually be a shade less broad, more like a Western FM. My Custom 74 F nib is much finer than the M, something like a Western EF. As your handwriting is very small, the F nib would probably be better suited for you.

[by78]

I've found that the M nibs on the 74 and 823 are similar; the 823's nib might actually be a shade less broad, more like a Western FM. My Custom 74 F nib is much finer than the M, something like a Western EF. As your handwriting is very small, the F nib would probably be better suited for you.

 

Thank you for your info!

[vnnil]

As far as I know, there is certain variation across nibs' width within any given category, so you should take that into account (in other words, two medium nibs might not be the same width).

That being said, I would personally go for a FM, since Pilot M nibs tend to be too wide for my handwriting, which is similar in size to yours.

[ailevin]

My handwriting is slightly larger than what you describe, and I generally prefer F in a Japanese nib and XF in a European. I have Pilot F nibs in a Decimo, 74, and 823, and I have had Pilot M nibs in a Metropolitan and a 92. I was surprised how broad the Pilot M nibs were compared to a Pilot F. Also, both M nibs were very much wetter. The net effect was something much closer to a European M than a European F.

 

I had the M nib in the 92 reground by Pendleton Brown to a Butter Line Stub, and I really don't use the Metropolitan except for backup or as a loaner.

[Frank C]

Most, if not all, Japanese nibs receive some hand finishing at the factory. Each one is unique. I have several Custom 823s with fine nibs and each has subtle differences.

[frogbaby]

i just bought an 823 from another member on fpn

 

i like the pen a lot but would like a slightly larger nib especially with some line variation

 

i have just owned the pen a few days and assume it will begin to soften a bit and shape to my handwriting but i find the line a little small and the nib a tad dry (though not bad for a fairly fine nib)

 

i would like to get a medium either stub or fa nib.

i keep reading that I must buy a 743 pen to get the nibs

 

is it not possible to just buy a specialty nib somewhere ?

i know that the 743 nibs will fit the 823, correct ?

 

can't i just buy a nib somewhere ?

[Frank C]

i just bought an 823 from another member on fpn

 

i like the pen a lot but would like a slightly larger nib especially with some line variation

 

i have just owned the pen a few days and assume it will begin to soften a bit and shape to my handwriting but i find the line a little small and the nib a tad dry (though not bad for a fairly fine nib)

 

i would like to get a medium either stub or fa nib.

i keep reading that I must buy a 743 pen to get the nibs

 

is it not possible to just buy a specialty nib somewhere ?

i know that the 743 nibs will fit the 823, correct ?

 

can't i just buy a nib somewhere ?

 

I'm not sure where you're located. Pilot USA doesn't import many of the specialty nibs. The only way for me to get one is to order the pen from Japan. The 743 and the 823 each use a #15 nib. The 742 uses a #10 nib.

 

If modern nib "shape to your handwriting" you are pressing too hard and bending the nib. The iridium tip on the nib does not wear much at all when one writes on writing paper.

 

(Edited to remove an extraneous "s". No more posts after my normal bedtime.)

Edited March 31, 2015 by Frank C

[Algester]

i just bought an 823 from another member on fpn

 

i like the pen a lot but would like a slightly larger nib especially with some line variation

 

i have just owned the pen a few days and assume it will begin to soften a bit and shape to my handwriting but i find the line a little small and the nib a tad dry (though not bad for a fairly fine nib)

 

i would like to get a medium either stub or fa nib.

i keep reading that I must buy a 743 pen to get the nibs

 

is it not possible to just buy a specialty nib somewhere ?

i know that the 743 nibs will fit the 823, correct ?

 

can't i just buy a nib somewhere ?

no... you cant get a nib but you can buy the pen with the nib exchange the nib sell the pen with the nib you wanted with your old nib... win some you lose some economical? definitely no

[frogbaby]

the other possibility is to have the nib worked on

i have one pendleton butter line stub which i really like

is the pilot fine nib too small of a point to customize ?

 

also, this seems just crazy, you must buy an entire pen to get the nib ?

no one has thought to go into the pilot aftermarket nib business ?

 

i must be missing something

[A144]

the other possibility is to have the nib worked on

i have one pendleton butter line stub which i really like

is the pilot fine nib too small of a point to customize ?

 

also, this seems just crazy, you must buy an entire pen to get the nib ?

no one has thought to go into the pilot aftermarket nib business ?

 

i must be missing something

 

I would imagine you could get the F nib changed to something... as long as it's finer. I don't know if you'd be able get it stubbed or anything like that; there's not a lot of tipping material on a Pilot F nib to work with.

 

Pilot simply doesn't sell the nibs separately from the pens. I've heard that you can, on rare occasion, find a nib section for sale, but it'll cost you almost as much as a new pen. And as others have said, since the 823 nib options are limited, you'd have to buy a 743.

 

Best best would be to buy a 743 with the nib you want, swap it to your 823, and sell the 743 with the "old" nib to recoup some cost.

Edited March 31, 2015 by A144

[frogbaby]

 

I would imagine you could get the F nib changed to something... as long as it's finer. I don't know if you'd be able get it stubbed or anything like that; there's not a lot of tipping material on a Pilot F nib to work with.

 

Pilot simply doesn't sell the nibs separately from the pens. I've heard that you can, on rare occasion, find a nib section for sale, but it'll cost you almost as much as a new pen. And as others have said, since the 823 nib options are limited, you'd have to buy a 743.

 

Best best would be to buy a 743 with the nib you want, swap it to your 823, and sell the 743 with the "old" nib to recoup some cost.

see head shaking

wow, buy a 200 pen just to get a nib ... seems crazy

 

i'm tempted to contact some of the recommended ebay japan based sellers to see if they can get me a nib

 

or

 

maybe i should just learn to be happy with the nib i have

 

i do like the pen a lot and i wanted a fine line

 

i guess i like so much that i would love to see a little variation and style with the line it lays down

 

also, in fairness, i am coming from a lamy al-star which gives you the correct grip and even the extra fine lays down a wet line

 

i need to learn to use the 823 a bit more i think

[Dr.Grace]

see head shaking

wow, buy a 200 pen just to get a nib ... seems crazy

 

i'm tempted to contact some of the recommended ebay japan based sellers to see if they can get me a nib

 

or

 

maybe i should just learn to be happy with the nib i have

 

i do like the pen a lot and i wanted a fine line

 

i guess i like so much that i would love to see a little variation and style with the line it lays down

 

also, in fairness, i am coming from a lamy al-star which gives you the correct grip and even the extra fine lays down a wet line

 

i need to learn to use the 823 a bit more i think

 

 

Yes, this is hard to understand when we're used to the land of Pelikan nibs. But the Japanese pen makers all do this. I'd bet that even if you could find a Japanese dealer who could sell you an extra nib unit, the price would be disproportionately high, so it's worth it to buy another pen.

 

You might be happier if you adjust the tines for better flow.

[Frank C]

see head shaking

wow, buy a 200 pen just to get a nib ... seems crazy

 

i'm tempted to contact some of the recommended ebay japan based sellers to see if they can get me a nib

 

or

 

maybe i should just learn to be happy with the nib i have

 

i do like the pen a lot and i wanted a fine line

 

i guess i like so much that i would love to see a little variation and style with the line it lays down

 

also, in fairness, i am coming from a lamy al-star which gives you the correct grip and even the extra fine lays down a wet line

 

i need to learn to use the 823 a bit more i think

 

The Japanese pen companies are every interested in their customers getting a working pen when they buy it. The European pen companies aren't quite so interested. Bear in mind, that Japan has a Ministry of Quality, whose job is to make sure that Japanese companies produce high quality goods.

 

Try the Japanese sellers, what can it hurt?

 

None of is content with his or her current pen. We are all looking for our next, best, pen.

 

Tokyo Pen Quill Shop sells 823s with all the various Pilot nibs. They change the nibs themselves, I believe. I have not ordered from them, but I would without hesitation.

 

http://www.japanshop-quill.com/pilot-custom823.htm

 

I hope this helps—or at least it stops your head from shaking.

[Algester]

The Japanese pen companies are every interested in their customers getting a working pen when they buy it. The European pen companies aren't quite so interested. Bear in mind, that Japan has a Ministry of Quality, whose job is to make sure that Japanese companies produce high quality goods.

 

Try the Japanese sellers, what can it hurt?

 

None of is content with his or her current pen. We are all looking for our next, best, pen.

 

Tokyo Pen Quill Shop sells 823s with all the various Pilot nibs. They change the nibs themselves, I believe. I have not ordered from them, but I would without hesitation.

 

http://www.japanshop-quill.com/pilot-custom823.htm

 

I hope this helps—or at least it stops your head from shaking.

because its no different from getting 743s and then doing the nib swap but even then asahiya kami bungu has their own exclusive 845 so you know they also have the real deal, but they only have 823 with an FA nib no cosu, no music no soft nibs either just the F,M,B and Fa Edited April 1, 2015 by Algester

[frogbaby]

i think i finally get it

even if i could get an su nib it would be too big

they say they are broad on the vertical and medium on the horizontal

makes sense for writing kanji

but would be too large a point for me

and i assume the nib would be at least a $100 all in

so buying a 743 makes the most sense

i could buy a 743 with a medium nib and have it ground to a stub

that would give me about the perfect point, a medium fine with some line variation

though, in the meantime i am warming up to the fine point on the 823 which is a very lovely and beautifully made pen

just holding it feels good

Edited April 3, 2015 by frogbaby