Twsbi Diamond 580 Vs. Pilot Prera Cm

[Douglas Johnson]

Pilot Prera CM wins hands down.

 

 

Similarities between both pens:

• clear demonstrator pens
• steel nib
• same piston filler system

 

Differences:

 

• Pilot is a smooth round pen vs. TWSBI 20-sided (or something like that). I prefer the smooth round feel. Advantage Pilot
• TWSBI holds much more ink. Advantage TWSBI
• But the TWSBI is a much longer and heavier pen than the Pilot. With the cap posted on the pen while writing the TWSBI is ridiculously long. Big Advantage Pilot.

 

Nibs:

 

• I suppose it might not be fair comparing an italic nib to a non-italic, but that's what I'm doing and of course the italic has a great deal of line variation, whereas the TWSBI has no line variation. Advantage Pilot.
• Both pens write very smooth, but of course the TWSBI has an advantage over the italic Pilot--but not much!! Advantage TWSBI.
• Speed writing: I can definitely write much faster and more clearly with the TWSBI. Advantage TWSBI.
• Slow writing: My script has far more character with the Pilot when I slow things down just a bit. Advantage Pilot.

So the final score: 4 to 3 Pilot!

 

In summary, if you want a fountain pen for note taking in class, then get the TWSBI. But you want to slow it down and write in a journal or write a letter then the Pilot is a much better writer, and a much better looking pen.

[EBUCKTHORN]

Would you consider the TWSBI Mini?

[serpent]

i totally disagree with the OP. First your comparing apples to oranges by not comparing like nib sizes. Your comparison of nibs is exactly what you would get with a Steel nib. My twsbi's write much smoother out of the box than my prera's. Size wise apples and oranges again. As ebuckhorn says a "mini" would be a like pen. Same Piston filler??? The twsbi is a piston filler the prera is a converter. The 580 is a large UNPOSTABLE pen.

[Douglas Johnson]

i totally disagree with the OP. First your comparing apples to oranges by not comparing like nib sizes. Your comparison of nibs is exactly what you would get with a Steel nib. My twsbi's write much smoother out of the box than my prera's. Size wise apples and oranges again. As ebuckhorn says a "mini" would be a like pen. Same Piston filler??? The twsbi is a piston filler the prera is a converter. The 580 is a large UNPOSTABLE pen.

Fair enough. The 580 is postable, but it's huge after you post. If it were unpostable, then that would a different complaint. It's reasonable to argue that it is apples and oranges, except that the buyer might very well not know that the TWSBI is either unpostable or unreasonably large posted.

 

I made the point in my original post that it is not fair comparing the italic nib of the Pilot to the regular nib on the TWSBI. But when it comes to writing smoothness, it's unfair to Pilot, not TWSBI. But even with that disadvantage in nib design, the Pilot writes very smooth with its steel nib. And, while there is some cost in smoothness to using an italic nib, the benefit of greater line variation more than makes up for it.

 

Does the 580 come with an italic nib? I couldn't find one. If that's the case, then of course you have to weight the fact that the TWSBI simply can't give you the line variation that many fountain pen users desire.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Douglas Johnson

[migla9]

The Goulet site shows the 580 is available with 1.1 and 1.5 italic nibs (also available as interchangeable replacements for $20).

 

I've read that the 580 is considered to be unpostable. Besides the length, the weight of the cap is as much as the rest of the pen, so it gets rather back-heavy. Also, when posting the cap, it fits onto only the piston knob. As a result, if you happen to twist the cap a bit, it will move the piston, with the expected results. I've read also that the cap can get stuck on the piston knob too easily such that it can be difficult to remove. All of this is from reviews - I haven't actually held a 580.

 

I like what I've read about the 580, but the posting issue has caused me to also consider alternatives. From what I've read, I'm not sure the Mini has solved the cracking issues as well as the 580. As for the Prera, if I'm getting a clear demonstrator, I would prefer a piston filler to a converter pen. That leaves something like the Pelikan M200 clear demo at more than double the cost (and alternate nibs will set you back almost as much as a 580). The M205 would be even better with silver trim instead of gold, but that's been out of production for awhile and is rather scarce.

Edited March 25, 2015 by migla9

[A144]

This comparison is very subjective. About the only thing that can actually be measured is the ink capacity, and that an italic nib has more line variation than a standard nib.

 

- I much prefer the TWSBI's faceted design (18 facets, if I counted right) to the round Prera (and the round Vac 700 body for that matter). Advantage TWSBI.

- The TWSBI does hold much more ink; generally an advantage. I love trying different inks and get bored quickly though... so advantage CC filling?

- The TWSBI is bigger, but it's meant to be a full sized pen that doesn't need to be posted, although it physically can be. I don't post my pens, and the tiny Prera would almost require it. Advantage TWSBI.

 

- TWSBI has a much wider nib selection, including EF-B, 1.1, and 1.5mm stub. I've used them all, except the 1.5mm. My opinion of the Prera nib will be based on my experience with Metro and 78G nibs (F, M, B (stub)). The TWSBI stub nibs are more rounded, lending to a smoother writing experience than the 78G B (stub) nib. Overall, I've found Pilot's nibs to be more consistent out of the box, but I haven't experienced anything with either that I haven't been able to fix. I'd call this one a tie, slight edge to TWSBI for the wider selection.

- Again, both have been good to me. My best TWSBI nib was beautiful, the worse required a bit of tine alignment and smoothing. Pilot's have all been about the same, and not quite as good as that ideal TWSBI nib (it's a 580 M, if you're curious).

- Comparing a TWSBI F to a Pilot steel M nib (pretty same line width), I write the same with both.

- Comparing the stubs, the Pilot requires me to slow down a bit more due to it's sharper edges, but gives sharper line variations.

 

For me, it's no contest. Even before nib selection and writing experience, the 580 wins hands down. The size, weight, and ink capacity (when needed) are much superior for my writing. In fact, while I own a few Pilots (although not the Prera), a TWSBI 580 is in my pocket almost every single day.

[Runnin_Ute]

Fair enough. The 580 is postable, but it's huge after you post. If it were unpostable, then that would a different complaint. It's reasonable to argue that it is apples and oranges, except that the buyer might very well not know that the TWSBI is either unpostable or unreasonably large posted.

 

I made the point in my original post that it is not fair comparing the italic nib of the Pilot to the regular nib on the TWSBI. But when it comes to writing smoothness, it's unfair to Pilot, not TWSBI. But even with that disadvantage in nib design, the Pilot writes very smooth with its steel nib. And, while there is some cost in smoothness to using an italic nib, the benefit of greater line variation more than makes up for it.

 

Does the 580 come with an italic nib? I couldn't find one. If that's the case, then of course you have to weight the fact that the TWSBI simply can't give you the line variation that many fountain pen users desire.

The 580 can be had with a factory italic. 1.1 or 1.5 mm. Usually $5 more. Perhaps not all versions of the 580 do though.

[Mattman]

I have both a 580 and the Prera. Until I got my 580, the Prera was my first choice. Now that I have both…

 

Looks:

My 580 is the Rosegold Black. There is no comparison. 580

 

Nib:

I had a tomahawk nib mod done to my 580. I tend to write with a near vertical pen orientation. This was taken in consideration during the nib work. As such, the pen writes well at a variety of different angles. It writes quite nicely for speed and equally nice for slow and deliberate writing. All the nibs I have thrown on the Prera doesn’t even come close. If I’m going for note taking, I need one nib. If I want journal/letter writing, I need another nib. 580

 

Size:

The Prera needs to be posted in order for it feel right. Otherwise, it is too small. It still feels more like a thick pencil. The 580 is heavier and feels like it has meat to it. With my grip, hand, length, taco, etc… the 580 feels far more comfortable. Posting it throws the balance off. 580

 

Capacity:

I don’t try out a lot of new ink anymore. The 580 looks as though it can eat the Prera and have room left over. 580

 

Cost:

The Prera can be found quite inexpensively online. Lunch for two at a casual restaurant cheap. The 580 and the nib work was several times that. Prera

 

In my case, the 580 was the clear winner.

[Reevers]

I agree with others that the comparison (while informative) is not a like-for-like pairing. Pilot Prera vs TWSBI Mini, or the 580 vs Pilot CH92 is maybe a fair line up.

 

I have the Prera F nib and 580s with F and EF and a TWSBI Mini EF.

 

The Pilot writes finer than both of my TWSBIs but I find the size of the pen (length & girth) just too small for prolonged periods of writing. I have it inked with Diamine Matador Red as with the needle point EF nib it's perfect for report corrects & margin notes.

 

The 580s are great daily drivers for me, comfortable, decent nibs & a fair price.

 

Two completely different pens, both superb.

[deacondavid]

I own both a Prera and a 580 - with fine nibs on each.

I also have a 540 with a 1.1 mm stub.

I have not tried the CM nib on the Prera.

 

Still, my two cents...

 

I don't really see the two as being similar pens, except in price.

 

The Prera, as others have rightly noted, is not a piston-filler.

It is also a much smaller pen that almost requires posting to be balanced (at least it does in my hands).

It has a finer line with the F nib than even the EF nib on my Vac 700. During the first few months of use, I found it to be a scratchy writer, but a change in ink sorted that out. It is part of my every day use pool (currently loaded with my current favorite ink - Diamine Cult Pens Dark Green). Its small size makes it easy to keep in a shirt pocket. The small ink capacity does make it easier to cycle through to new inks more frequently.

 

The 580 is a piston-filler. It has a huge capacity.

The design has two major weaknesses and they both relate to the cap - it is too heavy and it is not practical to post. When posted, the pen is top-heavy, writes poorly and can only be posted on the piston cap (my wife posted it too firmly and managed to let loose a good amount of Noodler's Polar Black into her laptop when she tried to pull the cap back off). If the pen is used without posting, it is an excellent pen. The nib is smooth and everyone who has used it has wanted to order a 580 for themselves. It, too is one of my daily carry pens (currently loaded with Noodler's Polar Black).

 

They're both excellent pens and I would be loath to be parted from either of them.

[korbendalles]

Just to toss my hat in this ring...I too have both pens in multiple nib sizes for each (Prera - F, M, CM TWSBI - F, M, 1.1).

 

In my opinion, they are not particularly comparable to each other as they really are geared towards different uses. The TWSBI is a classic full-size piston filler with standard Schmidt/Jowo (depending on when the TWSBI was purchased) European sized nibs. The Prera is an almost pocket-sized cartridge/converter filler with Japanese F, M and CM (closer to an italic than stub). The Prera CM is definitely a bit crisper and lays down a thinner line than the TWSBI 1.1 (think equivalent to a .9mm vs 1.1). I had to do a small 12000 grit pad polish on the CM nib so it would stop scratching. The TWSBI 1.1 has always laid down a super-wet line.

 

I have slightly larger hands and will only write with the Prera while it's posted, it's just too small without posting. I love the size of the TWSBI, but I do wish it allowed posting better (it's always a bit iffy to post on a piston end-cap though). I am ambivalent to the ink capacity difference as it takes a long time to use up a completely filled TWSBI and I too like to change ink colors a little more regularly. However, my solution is to just fill the TWSBI up 50% instead of 100%.

 

I will add one other item. The Prera (like Metros) are super easy to take apart to clean, much more so than the TWSBI (if the piston needs to be removed for a thorough cleaning, for instance).

 

One more item...the Prera had issues with drying out a bit, more than expected over the course of about a month with a single inkfill. TWSBI never had that kind of problem, due to different sealing and inkfilling mechanisms.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Buy both. I did.

[deacondavid]

One more item...the Prera had issues with drying out a bit, more than expected over the course of about a month with a single inkfill. TWSBI never had that kind of problem, due to different sealing and inkfilling mechanisms.

 

Excellent point which prompts something I forgot to mention earlier. My Prera accumulates condensation in the barrel, which if removed, returns within 24 hours. It gets humid in this part of Texas at this time of year, but it's not that humid. I also noticed the amount of ink in the convertor is going down faster than the amount I am using the pen should account for. I think I'm seeing evaporation from the convertor which is condensing the ink, making it thicker, which results in drier flow. I haven't done a quantitative study - this is stickly based on my eyeballing things at this point. I still like my Prera and would consider getting another if there weren't so many other pens that are calling to me. Still, it is something to be aware of before you add one to your collection.

Edited April 18, 2015 by deacondavid