Removing Shellac

[londonbooks]

I've been doing some repairs using shellac (Zinsser Amber BullsEye) and would like to know what is a good chemical to use to remove excess shellac from plastic, celluloid, or steel. Once in a while some of the shellac used for repairs ends up where it is not wanted. How to get rid of it? Thanks

[lahlahlaw]

I simply pick it off with a squeegee-like plastic tool. I'm not sure that there's anything that can remove it without damaging celluloid/plastic.

[slippery when wet]

Shellac is normally cut with Methylated Spirits/ Denatured alcohol. This solvent will remove shellac, but using it on celluloid or plastics is risky.

Thanks kirchh for showing up my mistake. I was in a bit of a rush at the time

Edited October 20, 2014 by slippery when wet

[kirchh]

Shellac is normally cut with either Mentholated Spirits or Denatured spirits. These two solvents will remove shellac, but using them on celluloid or plastics is risky.

 

That would be "methylated" spirits, which means denatured alcohol (as does denatured spirits). They're the same thing. The solvent at work is an alcohol.

 

--Daniel

[tryphon]

I use ethyl alcohol, pure or diluted in water.

[viclip]

An ammonia solution will attack shellac. It'll also attack copper/brass & aluminum.

 

 

Never use alcohol on celluloid, it'll cause hazing. Some other plastics are also attacked by alcohol but I'm unable to rattle them off by name, but for example I had an internal clear plastic sleeve in a Pelikan demonstrator clouded over by the use of alcohol as a cleansing agent.

[tryphon]

Methylated spirit will attack many plastics. I have used Ethyl alcool for years and never had a problem (maybe I was lucky). In any event, one can start with alcohol diluted with water to ascertain that the pen material is not marred by the liquid.

[londonbooks]

Methylated spirit will attack many plastics. I have used Ethyl alcool for years and never had a problem (maybe I was lucky). In any event, one can start with alcohol diluted with water to ascertain that the pen material is not marred by the liquid.

Thanks tryphon - I'm going to try Ethyl alcohol next time.

[kirchh]

Thanks tryphon - I'm going to try Ethyl alcohol next time.

 

Note that methylated spirit is denatured ethyl alcohol.

 

--Daniel

[Vintagepens]

On celluloid, at least, I would try to scrape off as much of the shellac as possible, then remove the remainder with ammonia on a cotton swab.

 

I would avoid using alcohol. Not only will it dissolve celluloid, it will preferentially dissolve camphor, effectively de-plasticizing the celluloid.

[GG917]

I have found ammonia is the best to remove shellac, I only use ethanol on ebonite. When soaked in ammonia most of the shellac dissolve but leave behind some sort of pinkish goo, easily removed or scrapped when dry. Thread sealent is the same (both "old" and Ron Zon's one), one cycle in the ultrasonic with dilute ammonia and it is gone.

 

Denaturated alcohol contain other solvents than ethanol that can be harmful to the plastics. In the EU formulation there is 3% MEK in it, not something you want to have on plastic or celluloid...

[tryphon]

Denaturated alcohol contain other solvents than ethanol that can be harmful to the plastics. In the EU formulation there is 3% MEK in it, not something you want to have on plastic or celluloid...

Wow...I would not want MEK on my skin, either!!! Looks like ammonia is the way to go!

[gweimer1]

So, how would I go about getting a REALLY stubborn section off? It's been 5 days of trying, and I have a lever fill Sheaffer that has me wondering if the section wasn't super-glued on. Should I chance the spirits? Nail polish remover? I have an old can of lighter fluid (Naptha), too.

 

I just haven't been able to break the bond between the section and barrel yet.

[GG917]

So, how would I go about getting a REALLY stubborn section off? It's been 5 days of trying, and I have a lever fill Sheaffer that has me wondering if the section wasn't super-glued on. Should I chance the spirits? Nail polish remover? I have an old can of lighter fluid (Naptha), too.

 

I just haven't been able to break the bond between the section and barrel yet.

 

Heat. You don't want to remove shellac but to loosen the bond it forms. once the section will be removed from the barrel you'll be able to effectively remove shellac.

 

soaking in whatever liquid is mostly inefficient as the said liquid do not go in between the barrel and section.

 

Nail polish remover is mostly acetone, keep it away from pens!

 

Edited October 21, 2014 by GG917

[kirchh]

So, how would I go about getting a REALLY stubborn section off? It's been 5 days of trying, and I have a lever fill Sheaffer that has me wondering if the section wasn't super-glued on. Should I chance the spirits? Nail polish remover? I have an old can of lighter fluid (Naptha), too.

 

I just haven't been able to break the bond between the section and barrel yet.

 

I'd start a new thread for this so it will get the attention it deserves. But don't use any chemicals at all at this stage.

 

--Daniel

[OcalaFlGuy]

Let's first assume the stuck section and barrel are both fine with a 1:10 Ammonia water solution.

 

Give them an extended soak vertically, point down, with solution just covering the barrel threads. I use an antique 3" shot glass.

 

At Least 24 hrs.

 

There will be those that say this can't possibly help. They are just wrong.

 

Now, point taken, most of my evidence lies with Estiebrooks. I have always used dry heat with success. (See with your Fingers.) But lately, I soak instead. I Already need to soak the nib and section to help the nib come out easier, why not just raise the soak line up an inch.

 

Though it seems counterintuitive, soaking vertically, Some water will leech it's way up into the barrel between it and the section. Water is a low grade lubricant. It doesn't take much water, very far into the junction of the barrel and section, to help them separate.

 

The pros don't often have time for a leisurely soak. I do.

 

I will say though that in lieu of soaking, dry heat is Absolutely Necessary to remove sections.

 

I also have the heat gun nearby just in case soaking doesn't help Enough.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited October 22, 2014 by OcalaFlGuy

[kirchh]

Let's first assume the stuck section and barrel are both fine with a 1:10 Ammonia water solution.

 

Give them an extended soak vertically, point down, with solution just covering the barrel threads. I use an antique 3" shot glass.

 

At Least 24 hrs.

 

There will be those that say this can't possibly help. They are just wrong.

 

Now, point taken, most of my evidence lies with Estiebrooks. I have always used dry heat with success. (See with your Fingers.) But lately, I soak instead. I Already need to soak the nib and section to help the nib come out easier, why not just raise the soak line up an inch.

 

Though it seems counterintuitive, soaking vertically, Some water will leech it's way up into the barrel between it and the section. Water is a low grade lubricant. It doesn't take much water, very far into the junction of the barrel and section, to help them separate.

 

The pros don't often have time for a leisurely soak. I do.

 

I will say though that in lieu of soaking, dry heat is Absolutely Necessary to remove sections.

 

I also have the heat gun nearby just in case soaking doesn't help Enough.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

1:10 ammonia solution is rather strong, in my experience. Furthermore, I don't recommend any soaking in ammonia if gold is involved.

 

The pros always have time to do a job right; while one pen is soaking (if necessary), they work on others. Many procedures in pen repair can involve days (or even weeks) of waiting; it doesn't impair a repairperson's rate of repairs. I daresay that the best restorers are exceedingly patient.

 

--Daniel

[OcalaFlGuy]

Let me be more clear.

 

No one implied that pros aren't patient.

 

IF soaking and dry heat have an equal chance of separating the section with similar amounts of risk, the pro is most likely to go with the quicker method. Time Is money to them. (And yes, broken parts is More money to them.)

 

I've never heard to Not soak a gold nib in Ammonia water for cleaning. As many gold nibs as this forum has soaked in Ammonia water, if it caused systemic issues, that would surely be common knowledge and would be widely cautioned against.

 

Spanish gold has come out of 300 year ocean salt water baths looking just fine.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited October 22, 2014 by OcalaFlGuy

[kirchh]

Let me be more clear.

 

No one implied that pros aren't patient.

 

IF soaking and dry heat have an equal chance of separating the section with similar amounts of risk, the pro is most likely to go with the quicker method. Time Is money to them.

 

You are implying that because soaking takes longer than the application of heat, it therefore earns the repairperson less money. That's illogical, because the repairperson is not idle while the pen would be soaking -- s/he simply works on other pens. Therefore, there is no loss of money from the use of a procedure that entails waiting time.

 

(And yes, broken parts is More money to them.)

 

Can you clarify this comment? What precisely does this mean in the context of the discussion of soaking or the use of heat to remove a section?

 

I've never heard to Not soak a gold nib in Ammonia water for cleaning. As many gold nibs as this forum has soaked in Ammonia water, if it caused systemic issues, that would surely be common knowledge and would be widely cautioned against.

 

 

I did not say it would cause systemic issues; I specifically cautioned against exposure of gold nibs to ammonia. Your reasoning that you had not previously heard this caution, and therefore my warning must be invalid, is illogical. For every valid piece of advice, there must be a first time one hears it, before which one was ignorant of it. This is merely your first time for this particular piece of education. David Nishimura observes, "there is strong evidence that ammonia can slowly and irreversibly embrittle 14K gold by attacking the base metals of the alloy." If you'd like more information, I will locate his essay on the subject.

 

Spanish gold has come out of 300 year ocean salt water baths looking just fine.

 

Are you under the impression that ammonia is salt water?

 

--Daniel

[Brian-McQueen]

Daniel, I actually would like to see the essay on ammonia and 14K gold. I have heard this now a couple of times, but I haven't seen the research to back it up.