Which Lathe

[Time2Write]

I have always wondered how difficult it would be to make your own pen. So after the usual trips to YouTube and this forum, I have decided that I would like to have a go. Looking at what is available and what I wish to achieve, are mini lathes suitable or would I be looking at a full size lathe?

 

Luckily I don't live too far from an Axminster and I have had a look at blanks, kits, tubes, drills and other witchcraft. For now I only want to turn pens, then once I know how to do advanced things, I would like to do a kit less pen but that is a while off.

 

Thanks for any advice

[Inspector]

Mini lathes and midi lathes work fine for pen making. You want to have enough length to be able to hold a pen blank in the headstock, drill bit and chuck in the tailstock with a little extra. A 10 x 15ish will work but a step up to 12 x 20ish is what I would go for. Variable speed is nice to have. A small metal lathe in the same size range works too but is more costly but has the advantage of being able to play with metal pens too. Don't overlook protection from the dust when getting setup. Good masks are a minimum.

 

Have fun

Pete

[Bruce Markwardt]

I do my pens on a full size wood lathe. I do turnings other than pens so full size is what I needed. If I only did pens my lathe would be gross overkill.

 

If you think you are going to do pens and smaller pieces, I would recommend one of the midi lathes. They give you a bit more flexibility. I know there are endless debates on wood lathes vs metal lathes. I think I can do everything I need on a wood lathe and again, I believe it offers more flexibility for things other than pens.

 

I pretty much learned how to do pens from YouTube and the IAP. There's a lot of reference material out there.

 

Have fun!

[Jerry Adair]

I see you are from the UK. I among other things deal in lathes and restore them. I will offer a counter thought to the preceding posters. I sold my Turncrafter wood lathe as it simply was collecting dust and not from turning. I make parts for vintage pens, kit pens as well as customizing vintage pens that cannot in a practicable way be restored. I would suggest a Sherline or a Taig. There may be a UK equivalent to both of those makes. I would buy them without a motor and add a PMDC motor and PWM controller. You will not be disappointed. The dc motor will give you the speeds you need for nearly any material you choose. Both Taig and Sherline have a veritable raft of accessories and you can in some cases actually do vertical work on them. Inspector above mentions this variable speed and he is right on the mark. In Europe there are a couple of lathes that I am familiar with including Emco and Unimat. Both can be found on eBay. Unimats tend to be pricy and not as versatile as I would like. I am sure there are many more right in your back yard.

The gentleman who moderates this site owns Chestnut Pens, back channel him his stuff is real good and he like all of started small.

Good luck it is fun to work on a lathe

Jerry

[dali3464]

You didn't specify whether you wanted a metal lathe or a wood lathe. There's a number of particular differences between the two, but grossly oversimplifying it, the trade-off is that while a metal lathe is good at precision, it won't be particularly good at turning graceful curves, and vice versa, while you'll be able to freehand turn on a wood lathe for subtle curves, you won't achieve the same degree of precision with a metal lathe.

 

I have a Sieg 7x16 mini-lathe (it's marketed in the US as the Micro-Mark 7x16 and its also sold in the UK by Arc Euro Trade as the Super C3 lathe). Answering Jerry's excellent post above, I'll make one observation: a Taig/Sherline will be much much more expensive than a Chinese-made lathe for the same set of features. In Australia at least (though this probably won't reflect the price difference in the UK), a Sherline/Taig of the same capability as a Chinese-made Sieg 7x16 is ~$2,000 more costly.

 

The benefit of owning a Chinese-made lathe is their ubiquity: there's a lot of literature online on various forums on maintaining and customising them to suit various functions.

 

With respect to size, most (metal) turners have advocated going for a lathe as large as you can afford: the rationale being that turning is rather addictive and you may be taking on projects that are progressively larger. However, if you're going to exclusively turns pens (and nothing else), you'll find that there's not much point in purchasing a larger lathe. Certainly, all the pens I've turned have been accommodated well by my 7x16.

 

Of course, all this applies to metal lathes. If you haven't decided about metal vs wood, it's a good idea to do more research. Ideally, we'd all purchase both, but we don't usually have that sort of money (certainly I don't!).

[Time2Write]

Thanks for all the advice. I will have a browse later. Just currently outside Conwy North Wales so will have to wait until later when I get home

[Jerry Adair]

Here are Taig prices from a company in the UK called Peatol. These are very competitive with US pricing. This is a very good lathe for making pens and parts. With a 4 pole motor @ 50 Hz using standard pulleys from Taig you can achieve a low speed of ca, 490 rpm and a maximum of 4200 rpm with 4 other speeds in between. Taig also offers an accessory for wood turning so you have 2 lathes in one. Any threading will have to be done by hand unless you elect to use a PMDC motor with a PWM controller. Threading capability is essential if you are going to be a serious pen maker. Do note that for most (not all) European pens the threads are 3 start . 7 pitch and for US and Canadian pens it is 3 start 36TPI. Do not got the cheap route and use an SCR for speed control if you use a dc motor.

He is out of the power feed option but it may be purchased seperately and is easily added to the machine.

BTW I have nothing to do with Taig I just happen to feel that for the money they are exellent machines.

Anyway good luck with whatever you choose.

Below is the email I got from Peatol

Jerry

Hello,

power feed lathes are out of stock.All other items are in stock. Could you please ask your friend in the UK to contact me direct by telephone.

To obtain the price list go to THE PEATOL LATHE and follow the links to the price list i assure you it is there.

the standard lathe in kit form with chuck £180 motor £50, steady £25,Mill attachment £59.shipping to UK address £20

Regards

[fountainbel]

Hi Timetowrite,

Since you are in the UK, look alternatively for a second hand "Myford Super 7" metal lathe

Top quality, robustly build , gearbox for imperial thread cutting.

I'm the happy owner of this excellent piece of machinery and would not trade it for any of the actual machines.

Only drawback is that these are not cheap…...

Succes !

Francis

 

BTW : Most vintage European mainland pen makers used a thread profile of 36 TPI ,f.e. Montblanc used 9TPI - 4 leads , Pelikan 12 TPI 3 leads

 

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/fountainbel/Myfordsuper7lathe.jpg

[Jerry Adair]

A mighty machine. Never owned one as they are not to common in the colonies I understand they compare favorably to an South Bend 9A or 10K. I believe either Jim Marshall or Laurence Oldfield toil on a Myford or perhaps an Emcomat 7. I had an SB 9A lathe with QCGB and all the toys and with a PMDC motor with PWM drive but it was just too much for my shop and I now use my Atlas 612, Taig and Sherline 1000 from Australia

I had not heard that the .7 thread was not in use on the mainland. It surprises me that they would use the thread you invented. Threading is really at least for me a time consuming endeavor (sorry about the spelling) I started years ago using taps and dies with .7 pitch as that was what was available here at a moderate cost vs 3 start.

36tpi..

If I knew how to post pics on messages I would put them here

Jerry

[fountainbel]

Hi Jerry,

There is effectively only a minor difference between the 36 TPI thread profile ( = 0.7056 mm) and a metric 0.7mm pitch.

The threads I've specified are surely not invented by me : Montblanc 9TPI - 4 leads : 9x4 = a 36TPI thread profile , Pelikan 12 TPI 3 leads : 12x 3= also 36TPI thread profile.

Francis

I had not heard that the .7 thread was not in use on the mainland. It surprises me that they would use the thread you invented. Threading is really at least for me a time consuming endeavor (sorry about the spelling) I started years ago using taps and dies with .7 pitch as that was what was available here at a moderate cost vs 3 start.

36tpi..

If I knew how to post pics on messages I would put them here

Jerry

[Time2Write]

I'm edging towards the peatol as that is ideally the size I would be looking for as I don't have much space.

 

Again, I am out and about in Crewe so will read up on it later.

 

I don't mind threading by hand. I had plenty of practice when I would cross thread my spark plugs on the BSA

[Jerry Adair]

Hi Jerry,

There is effectively only a minor difference between the 36 TPI thread profile ( = 0.7056 mm) and a metric 0.7mm pitch.

The threads I've specified are surely not invented by me : Montblanc 9TPI - 4 leads : 9x4 = a 36TPI thread profile , Pelikan 12 TPI 3 leads : 12x 3= also 36TPI thread profile.

Francis

Francis

I know the difference and the similarity of the dot 7 to the 36tpi. Been doing this for 25 years or more. When I said "you invented" I meant England not you personally. Although I would give you credit just because.

12 X 3 for 3 start 36tpi is how I thread on my Sherline. Mostly though I use taps and dies it's just faster

Heck some companies actually were 2 start and some 5.

Our guy is looking at the Peatol (aka Taig) I think he will be very happy with that lathe mine is nearly 9 years old. It replaced a really nice Prazi SD300 horizontal and vertical machine. A pen customer of mine offered me more that what I paid for it to it went away.

Fun talking with you about this topic

Jerry

[dali3464]

When I said "you invented" I meant England not you personally. Although I would give you credit just because.

 

I think that's where the confusion arose. Our dear Francis is from Belgium (good Lord, I hope I'm remembering correctly!).

 

The Taig/Sherline looks like an excellent little lathe. I would caution you that when I was going back through the forum and making the same decision about purchasing a lathe, I read a number of posts that didn't particularly recommend the micro-lathes such as Taig/Sherline as they're more often used for miniature model making. The dimensions of the lathe make some of the larger components of pen turning more difficult/cumbersome to turn.

 

In this Peatol's case, I can mostly think of the collet sizes as the main restriction. The ER16 can only accomodate up to 10mm, and likewise the WW collets can only accommodate up to perhaps 8mm. In this case, the larger pieces (the vast majority of pen turning components will be larger than 10mm) will have to be held in the chuck. There are a few problems with this: slippage might occur, and plastic blanks might crack.

 

The lathe I use (and I would hazard a guess and say that the vast majority of 7x lathes) opts for the ER32 collets, which accommodates up to 20mm.

 

From your original post, you mentioned kits. On that basis of turning kit pens (and I would assume some of them are made of wood), I wouldn't recommend the Peatol (or any other Sherline/Taig). I would opt for a wood lathe: cheaper, more efficient for the purpose.

[angio]

I would agree with the Myford. I recently upgraded from an ML4 to a pretty basic spec ML7 which did not cost the earth. In fact on that well know auction website you can get pretty fair ML7 for the same price as a new "chinese" lathe such as the Clarke CL300M.

 

Also as well as being a being a decent solid small metal lathe the ML7 can be fitted with a wood turning rest which was an optional extra offered by Myford. You can buy the rests from Chronos ltd: http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/info_MFWT.html.

 

In terms of support, there is a Myford users group on Yahoo groups who have all sorts of resources pertaining to (oddly enough) Myford lathes. They helped me out no end with advice and suggestions.

 

One word of warning; if you do look into buying a second hand lathe, do your homework and know what to look for. Ask for advice from the experts, there are plenty of article online about this. Always see the lathe before you buy it and if possible try it out.

 

My advice? Get the Myford ML7 or if you can afford it a Super 7.

[thomasdj]

May I add my bit? I began as as a hobby woodturner and became interested in pens. I have been turning kit pens for several years and I am now in danger of becoming obsessed with kitless pens! I currently use a midi wood lathe - a Jet VS - threading done with standard single start taps and dies. I would like to add a small metal lathe and learn how to cut threads but I can't yet justify the expense! What I did spend some cash on is a collet chuck (PSI) taking ER32 collets - this classes as one of my very best buy tools, I ought to have bought one years ago. Maybe I'll get round sometime to obtaining a triple start tap and die set for cap/barrel threads. Whether my experience is useful to anyone else I don't know but I can say that I am having lots of fun!

[Jerry Adair]

Dali

I love this topic. Reasonable men and women can disagree and we do, although just a bit. I have never found a pen part that is too large for a Sherline/Taig. If I had to choose between a Chinese lathe and or an American/British lathe of equal stature (even though they may be a bit more than the Chinese lathe) every time I wil choose Am/Br over the Chinese machine. I would spend the money for a quality lathe. This is from a guy who has a 1972 MGB. I had a PSI Turncrafter wood turning lathe for a few years and it only collected dust. Sold it on Craigslist. And as for Thomas above he says the key words "having lots of fun" BTW Thomas this colonist does love Yorkshire. Do look too in Paul Eranos book at the custom pen section near the back. Check out Mike Kruts pens 100% made on a Sherline. Sherline offers a kit for threading at $125 and I have one works perfect. 3 X 12 three start is doable as well as .7 metric pitch. With regad to collets I have a really uncommon Atlas 612 that uses collets and I do on occasion use them but mostly I use a 4 jaw with aluminum jaws in my Sherline or Taig. I have both.

Have fun make lot of chips and minimum scrap.

Jerry