Iron-Gall Ink For Fountain Pens

[Oldane]

Being new to the forum, I wrote a little bit about iron-gall inks in another post here yesterday and got inspired by it to post my experiences with iron-gall inks.

 

In my job I need permanent ink with a"conservative" color and I have used Montblanc Blueblack for years. However, it was dicontionued, so I had to find a subsitute. In my seeking I have tried out some other I-G inks, and I'd like to share my experiences.

 

General properties of I-G inks:

 

All the iron-gall inks on the market to day has two basic ingredients: An anilin dye (usually blue, but there are exceptions) and iron-gall. As I see it, the most important differencies bestween the various brands of I-G ink out there to day is the relative content of anilin dye and I-G. There may be differencies too in the content of flow easing additives such as glycerine and/or wetting agents. The tendency these days is that I-G inks for fountainpens have less I-G content and more anilin dye. One can get an impression of thwe I-G content of a given ink by soaking a writing sample in water for some hours. The darker the remaining line, the greater the I-G content. One can also expose a written sample to the sunlight for a couple of months (but soaking is of course much faster).

 

In the classic I-G ink, the aniline dye is mostly there to enable the writer to see what he writes. Without it, freshly made I-G ink is almost colorless and only takes on color when it oxidizes on the paper (or in the botlle if left exposed to the air).

 

The I-G is what gives the ink its permanency. It binds tightly to the paper and oxidizes to a black color when exposed to the air. With lower concentrations of I-G the color is more grayish.

 

When exposed to light or water, the anilin dye will diasappear / wash out while the I-G remains. Thus I-G inks are only permanent as far as the I-G component goes.

 

A common trait with most I-G ink is the sticky ink flow. As I can figure it, it's due to a high surface tension. Those inks doesn't work well in all pens. Pens with a generous ink flow is preferable. Those inks can in fact be used for taming a "gusher". Dish washing soap or Photoflo (both wetting agents) can be used to reduce the surface tension, and I did that routinely with Montblanc Blueblack. But it doesn't work well with all I-G inks (se below).

 

I-G inks also tend to feel dry and unlubricating when writing.

 

Due to a tendency to setting sedements, it's advisable to flush the pens frequently if those inks are used in them. The greater the I-G content, the more frequent the flushing.

 

The acidity of I-G inks is often mentioned and warned against. First, the acidity of modern I-G inks for fountain pens is not higher that that of many dye based inks. Second, FWIW, I have never personally had any problems with it in my pens despite using I-G inks on a dayly base for many years. It's the sediment setting which is the biggest quirk of those inks.

 

 

Here's some I-G inks, I have tried out recently:

 

Diamine Registrars and ESS Registrars:

They are very much alike - likely because they are both made to comply with the official UK specs for document ink. They contain a lot of I-G. In fact som much that it's quite usual to see a sediment in the bottle when it has been left untouched for a week ot two. They dry to a black or dark grey line (depending on the wetness of the pen) without any visible trace of blue (on most papers but not all). This darkening is wisible when writing and continues at a slower pace over the next 24 hours or so. They are flowing OK but with high surface tension, and in some pens there may be flow problems due to that. They also feel dry when writing. They cry out for a wet pen. I tried to ease the flow with dish washing soap (a thinned solution, 5 drops of that in a bottle of ink). It did ease the flow but it also created a thin sticky layer of I-G goo (no, not fungus) on the walls of the bottle. The same happened in a Pelikan demonstrator M800 pen filled with the stuff and it took a complete disassembly - including taking out the piston and knocking out the nib and feed from the collar - to get it clean again. So I won't recommend adding anything to these two high concentration I-G inks.

 

Akkermann no. 10

It's much like the two registrars inks in properties, but it seems to have a little lower I-G content. Even if one doesn't like the ink, the bottle alone is worth getting - it's really something special (Google it if you want to know more).

 

Montblanc Midnight Blue (the now dicontinued I-G version)

This contains only a little I-G and relies mostly on dyes. After drying the line is almost black, but a soaking with water leaves only a faint light grey line. It flows and lubricates much better than the Registras inks and behaves much like any good dye based ink - which it basically is.

 

Rohrer & Klingner Salix

This is an I-G "light" ink - the I-G content is lower than in the two Registrars inks but higher than Montblanc Midnight Blue. My estimate is that it has about as much I-G as the old Montblanc Blueblack, or maybe a little less. It leaves a greater amount of blue when dried and oxidized, but still leave a nice medium grey line after being soaked in water (just like Montblanc Blueblack did). Thus the permanency is satisfactory. The flow and lubrication is excellent - on par with many good dye inks. Despite being an I-G ink, it doesn't seem to require cleaning so often as say the Registrars inks. All in all it's very well behaved and can for many be a good candidate for a daily workhorse ink which one doesn't have to give many thoughts. I tried it 4 or 5 years ago and didn't like it much then, found it to be too pale. It may be batch variation or a change in the formulation, but now it is darker and seems to contain more I-G than back then. It has become my daily go-to ink. In a dry pen, it will still be somewhat pale, though, but since I use Pelikans, which are wet, it's not a problem for me.

 

Rohrer & Klingner Scabiosa

It has a dusty reddish color, which I don't care much for, but that's just me. Apart from the color, the properties are much like Salix, so if one likes the color, go for it.

 

 

There are a few other "custom made" I-G inks available, but I haven't tried them. Among these are the ink from Phamacist and the "Urkundentinte". There may be others, I haven't heard about.

 

Some other inks may contain a small amount of I-G though not labelled as I-G inks. For example, I noticed that Noodlers Aircorp Blueblack (labelled as semi-permanent) leaves a light grey line when washed out - exacly the color of I-G. But what do I know.

[WilsonCQB1911]

Informative post, thank you

[PabloAU]

Thank you for taking the time to pull together such an informative post. The only IG ink I've tried is Scabiosa, and I wasn't fond of the pale colour on the page immediately after writing, although it dried to a much nicer shade. I might give Salix a try when next I buy inks.

[Bobby Check]

Great post!

 

In 2003 there was a post regarding 2 MB "Permanent" inks, (blue and black).

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/253762-new-montblanc-permanent-inks-2013/

 

what are your thoughts regarding these?

 

Bobby

[Oldane]

Great post!

 

In 2003 there was a post regarding 2 MB "Permanent" inks, (blue and black).

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/253762-new-montblanc-permanent-inks-2013/

 

what are your thoughts regarding these?

 

Bobby

Frankly, I have no thoughts whatsoever, because I haven't tried them. I tend to stick to I-G formulations. They have their quirks, but the quirks are well known and predictable and can be handled. I don't know about these new Montblanc inks, but some of the Noodlers bulletproof inks have turned out to have some trade offs not foreseen when they were first introduced. But I will give these new Montblanc inks a try one of these days.

 

Maybe others can chime in with experiences with their properties.

[Icywolfe]

How about Noodler's KTC or Platinum Carbon Black or Platinum's Pigment based inks? I believe Platinum also makes blue black IG inks too.

 

I know my Diamine IG seems to work the same way (in a dry way) in whatever nib or paper. Same for Platinum Black flows the same way in all my pens I put it on and

stays on what ever paper the same or similar. Kinda like my Diamine IG. Added plus is that pigments are slightly better than IG inks.

 

Platinum makes IG as said here;

 

http://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/e_about_ink.html

[KBeezie]

Nice list and description, Salix is my favorite of the IG ones, not many of the dye based inks I've tried really gave me quite the same appearance especially after drying. And I also like it because of it's dryer flow, it works very well in both a 1.5 and 1.9 stub nib, and doesn't dry up like some of the noodler's bulletproof inks (for the same desire of simply being waterproof). It will stick to a stainless steel nib, usually right around where the nib meets the section but can be easily rubbed off in cleaning.

 

It's just overall pleasant.

 

Scabiosa wasn't particularly a favorite, a bit too light, and I'm not really big on purple, so it's not really against scabiosa specifically.

How about Noodler's KTC or Platinum Carbon Black or Platinum's Pigment based inks? I believe Platinum also makes blue black IG inks too.

 

I know my Diamine IG seems to work the same way (in a dry way) in whatever nib or paper. Same for Platinum Black flows the same way in all my pens I put it on and

stays on what ever paper the same or similar. Kinda like my Diamine IG. Added plus is that pigments are slightly better than IG inks.

 

Platinum makes IG as said here;

 

http://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/e_about_ink.html

The sample of Platinum Carbon Black InkDrop had a while back was pretty black... but it dried in the feed way too quickly and caused a lot of hard starting issues, way worse than even some of the more stubborn noodler's bulletproof inks. Also there's very little chance of diluting pigmented inks, tried that once, it'll write the water onto the paper and keep the ink in the nib (very weird behavior), almost like water and oil.

I'm curious about Kung Te-Cheng as well, from what I understand it's actually derived from original ink stones, which can solidify and clog the feed as it dries.

Edited September 11, 2014 by KBeezie

[tinta]

Not having found a standard ink with Scabiosa's dusty dark purple, I am stocking up. For almost a year now, Scabiosa has been in all of my ink rotations.

Every time I flush my dedicated IG pen, I consider filling up with Akkerman #10 or Salix, but in the end I refill with Scabiosa.

It's one of the best shading inks I own.

[Cyber6]

There are a few other "custom made" I-G inks available, but I haven't tried them. Among these are the ink from Phamacist and the "Urkundentinte". There may be others, I haven't heard about..

 

 

Welcome Oldane ... http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/hi-there-smiley.gif

 

I really like your analysis of IG inks out there. Do you mind if I can "sponsor" some of your research..

 

PM me your address and I will do my best to provide you with some Pharmacist samples and KWZI samples of IG inks.

 

 

 

I believe KWZI has a higher IG content than ESSRI,, I am not sure about the IG content of Pharmacist inks.

 

If you want to check some of KWZI IG inks.. head here.. KWZI Inks ... His IG lineup starts at 22.. all they way up to 30 inclusive.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Cyber6

[amberleadavis]

The KWZI IGs have been the nicest that I have used.

 

You probably want to pickup a bottle of the Pelikan that is available only in Europe, I've heard that ink is IG also, the one in the US is not.

[inkstainedruth]

Interesting discussion. I haven't yet tried ESSRI or the KWZI inks. But have tried most of the others mentioned, including several of Pharmacist's.

I like IG inks for the most part, but I do limit what pens they go in, due to the (slightly) higher maintenance. In particular, I have a gusher of a Parker Vector (writes wetter with an F than the Vector with an M nib does) and have had a great deal of success.

At the moment, I think my favorite is still Pharmacist's Turkish Night (cyan oxidizing to green) because it's such a gorgeous color; that's followed by the Akkerman #10, which oxidized much darker than the Diamine Registrar's Blue Black did. In fact, I found DRBB to be disappointing, because it turned a washy blue grey -- the Akkerman (in spite of many claims by people in other threads that the Akkerman inks are rebranded Diamine) got *much* darker -- almost black.

On the other hand, I've had a heck of a time flushing it out of the "shoulders" of the Parker slide converter (just above the connection point). Can't tell how much of that is the ink, and how much of that is that the ball inside the chamber on the converter blocked the hole when I tried to soak it.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Oldane]

Welcome Oldane ... http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/smileys/hi-there-smiley.gif

 

>I really like your analysis of IG inks out there. Do you mind if I can "sponsor" some of your research..

> PM me your address and I will do my best to provide you with some Pharmacist samples and KWZI samples of IG inks.

> I believe KWZI has a higher IG content than ESSRI,, I am not sure about the IG content of Pharmacist inks.

> If you want to check some of KWZI IG inks.. head here.. KWZI Inks ... His IG lineup starts at 22.. all they way up to 30 inclusive.

Thanks a lot. PM sent. I gratefully take you offer of letting me have some I-G ink samples. Please note that I live in Europe, so it might be too expensive for you to ship the samples to here. If you have a PayPal account, I will happily pay for the shipping.

[Cyber6]

Thanks a lot. PM sent. I gratefully take you offer of letting me have some I-G ink samples. Please note that I live in Europe, so it might be too expensive for you to ship the samples to here. If you have a PayPal account, I will happily pay for the shipping.

 

You sure??... I have no PM in my inbox.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: GOT IT!!!

Edited September 12, 2014 by Cyber6

[Oldane]

..... the Akkerman #10, which oxidized much darker than the Diamine Registrar's Blue Black did. In fact, I found DRBB to be disappointing, because it turned a washy blue grey -- the Akkerman (in spite of many claims by people in other threads that the Akkerman inks are rebranded Diamine) got *much* darker -- almost black. ....

 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

My experience is the opposite. My sample of Akkermann No. 10 is a bit "lighter gauge" than Diamine Registrars (and has no sediment in the bottle of the bottle as opposed to the Diamine) so with the bottles I have, I think the Diamine has the higher I-G content. I guess batch variation explains this discrepance.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Oldane

[Oldane]

You probably want to pickup a bottle of the Pelikan that is available only in Europe, I've heard that ink is IG also, the one in the US is not.

Regrettably there's no longer I-G in the Pelikan BB here in Europe either. If there seemed to be at one point, it may have been because it was NOS. I have two bottles in a drawer. It looks very much like a traditional I-G BB, and they hit the nail with the color (better than most other brands), but it washes away quite easily with water and also fades and eventually becomes totally unreadable when exposed to sunlight. That makes me conclude there's no I-G in it. The I-G inks passes that test easily.

 

When testing an ink for permanency I usually do two things:

 

1) Soak a piece of paper with writing on it in water for 24 hours.

2) Leave a piece of paper with writing on it in a sunlit window for 2-3 months.

 

That test separates the permanent inks from the non permanent ones. It also gives me an impression of the I-G content (the darker the line, the higher the I-G content - everything else equal, of course)

[inkstainedruth]

My experience is the opposite. My sample of Akkermann No. 10 is a bit "lighter gauge" than Diamine Registrars (and has no sediment in the bottle of the bottle as opposed to the Diamine) so with the bottles I have, I think the Diamine has the higher I-G content. I guess batch variation explains this discrepance.

Hmmm. Wonder now whether the Diamine Registrars sample I had was a bad batch. Because it was really disappointing. The Akkerman #10 oxidized to nearly black -- even darker than Pharmacist's Urkundentinte (which I've heard has a higher IG content than nearly all -- if not all -- of the commercial brands out there). I got to try a sample off someone's bottle of Urkundentinte a while ago at a pen club meeting, and thought it was way better than the Diamine -- but the Akkerman gets even darker.

My only complaint about the Akkerman ink is that I have some staining -- possibly even buildup/sediment) at the bottom -- of the converter (basically, around the shoulders of the bottom) when I flushed it after using the #10. I have tried reflushing it, and letting the interior of the converter (one of the Parker slide converter types) rest on its side, instead of straight up and down, in the hopes that the issue was just that the opening was being clogged up by the mixing ball inside it. And yes, before anyone asks -- I did flush with vinegar solution and then with distilled water *before* an ammonia solution. Just like I normally would when flushing any pen after using with any IG ink.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[wastelanded]

I've been using Nr. 10 daily for over a year in my work pen, refilling a cartridge. I tear down and clean the pen monthly, but the walls of the cartridge are completely opaque: even holding it next to a light bulb, I can't see how much ink is in there unless I scrape inside with the needle of the ink syringe. And no amount of ammonia and/or vinegar flushing will get rid of it.

 

I dearly love this ink, but I wouldn't use it in a pen that's hard to clean.

[tinta]

I have just recently read on FPN then confirmed with Goulet's, that Platinum's blue/black is also a ferrogallic formulation.

On the Platinum web-site:

http://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/e_about_ink.html

Platinum explains about the properties of its blue/black ink.

I'll either get a small sample from Goulet's or try to source a smaller 30 ml bottle elsewhere.

Not sure if the above info also indicates that the blu/ black in platinum cartridges is actually an IG ink, making it possibly the only cartridge ink containing iron gall.

Edited September 13, 2014 by tinta

[RudyR]

Great post!

 

In 2003 there was a post regarding 2 MB "Permanent" inks, (blue and black).

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/253762-new-montblanc-permanent-inks-2013/

 

what are your thoughts regarding these?

 

Bobby

 

 

Frankly, I have no thoughts whatsoever, because I haven't tried them. I tend to stick to I-G formulations. They have their quirks, but the quirks are well known and predictable and can be handled. I don't know about these new Montblanc inks, but some of the Noodlers bulletproof inks have turned out to have some trade offs not foreseen when they were first introduced. But I will give these new Montblanc inks a try one of these days.

 

Maybe others can chime in with experiences with their properties.

 

I have tried the Permanent Blue. The color isn't anything to get excited about (just like most royal blues), but the rest of the properties are. This ink IS waterproof. It is only one of two inks producing companies in the world that have ISO certified document inks.

 

I just used a glass dip pen on some Double A paper and Cheap As C*&P paper. Because its a glass nib, it did initially gush out. Big Big wide line. There was some show through but very, very little bleed though on the cheap paper. Almost no feathering either. Just tiny little bits here and there on the word, Montblanc, that I wrote. On the Double A ....... nothing bad. the line was clean and clear. No show through, no bleeding, no feathering. Good flow, good lube. It cleans nicely too. Nothing short of being an excellent ink.

 

I don't know about Permanent Black as I rarely use black. Also there was a period concerning the earlier first batches, where they accidentally swapped Mystery Black and Permanent Black. It should all be good by now.

Edited September 14, 2014 by RudyR

[Oldane]

This weekend I had a chance to try out De Atramentis Document Blue and Document Dark Blue as alternatives to iron-gall inks. They were of course completely waterproof and will no doubt also be lightproof. They flow very generously in my Pelikan pens. It is two very nice colors on good quality paper. So far, so good.

 

However, on poor quality paper, they show quite a lot of feathering and bleedthrough, and because the paper so readily suck in the ink, the colors tend to look faded and matte on this poor paper. As I understand it, those nanoparticle inks usually have a lot of surfactant added to help keeping the nano particles in suspension. I ackowledge that it likely has to be this way to be sure clogging doesn't happen in the pen. Unfortunaly, in my job as a physician, I need an ink with a reasonable permanency AND the paper I am required to write on is often of poor quality (often cheap copier paper), so this tendency to bleeding and feathering is a major disadvantage for me. Crossword puzzles in my Sunday newspaper with a nano ink? Forget it.

 

The old iron-gall inks to this day behave much better than almost everything else on poor paper (I say almost because I haven't tried everything) - keeps crisp edges and doesn't bleed through. Of these, Rohrer &Klingner Salix is the most benign in the pen (because of the relatively low I-G content), so for the time being it's the one I use in my work. Though not a deal breaker (after all the price of bottled ink is not that high), the price of De Atramentis Document ink is far higher than the price of Salix. I could have wished Salix to be a bit darker on some kinds of paper, Apart from this nitpicking about the color of Salix, I have to say that it may well be the most well behaved ink I have ever used. Salix behaves better than Montblanc Blueblack though I liked the color of the latter better. I guess I am still on the look for a good I-G ink as a substitute for my beloved and sadly discontinued Montblanc Blueblack - but I won't trade the excellent behavior of Salix against a darker color if that's what it takes.

 

Cyber6 has very kindly offered to send me a couple of samples of KWZI and Phamacist iron-gall inks. I very much look forward to trying them. As far as I can see, KWZI has a couple of very nice iron-gall colors (#23 and #24 to be exact).