Luxury/art Pens

[MrThoth]

This is a sort of a sociological question brought on by a recent discussion of my fountain pen collecting hobby with a friend. Collecting is definitely a subjective pursuit, so there are no wrong answers.

 

There are quite a few manufacturers out there making expensive "luxury" or "art" pens. Think of David Oscarson, Michel Perchin, limited editions by the likes of Caran d'Ache, Omas, Dupont, Montegrappa, and so on. These pens typically costs thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars.

 

Obviously there must be some demand for these pens, or there wouldn't be so many manufacturers making them. So I'm curious to find out what the commentators and kibbitzers of FPN think about them. Do you like/want pens like this? Are any of them your "holy grail pen"? Do you think they're worth the price? Are they just an attempt to separate tasteless ignorami from their money? Would you rather buy a vintage/antique pen of equivalent cost/value? Is it stupid to buy an antique pen when so many superb modern luxury/art pens are available? Are all expensive pens equally desireable?

 

Let's put it in more concrete terms. Suppose you had $10,000 (or equivalent in local currency) and no significant expenses you had to cover.¹ You're going to spend this money on a pen, or small number of pens (not on a whole collection or line). What would you buy -- a modern luxury/art pen, a vintage/antique, something else?

 

 

 

1: By this I mean -- please let's avoid responses like "I'd never spend that much on a pen" or "If I had $10,000 I'd make a house payment." Those are certainly valid sentiments, but they don't address the issue I'm interested in. There's a good chance I'd spend the money on a house payment, too, but that's not what I'm asking about.

 

 

[MrThoth]

For the record:

 

1. I really like looking at modern luxury/art pens.

2. I own one and hope to own more in the future, if budget and fate allow.

3. I tend to like modern luxury/art pens more than antique/vintage pens, but ultimately my collecting is based largely on what appeals to me. (Like I said -- it's a subjective hobby. ) If I saw an antique/vintage pen of equivalent value that appealed to me just as much as, say, a David Oscarson "Tree of Life" or an S.T. Dupont "Pharoah," it would absolutely go on my wish list -- possibly near the top!

4. My #3 response aside, I don't think either category of pen is "better." It all comes down to what each of us likes for his collection. It's your money; spend it on what you want, sez I.

[de_pen_dent]

I like some of those pens - not all. Kinda like art.

 

However, I'd probably spend $10k on several $500-1000 pens than a few $2000+ pens (which actually is what I have done so far). Not b/c of the pens themselves but b/c of what i do with my pens (use them).

[Bo Bo Olson]

A pen must have a very good nib, be balanced and write well.

Most of those Art pens do none.

 

I was at a live auction, where some one was selling his Art pen from Montgrappa, with it's own shrine. It weighed a ton. Weighed at least three times more than the heaviest pen I've ever had in my hand. (He never got his €2,000 for it either time it was there.

I'm sure it's good for something other than worshiping it. Perhaps as a signature pen for buying one's 298 foot yacht.

 

I've seen the Brandenburg from MB....a beautiful pen. Not too heavy to use. Might need a basic six foot wide desk to use it on, but something one could write with. Sort of like a deluxe Pelikan Toledo.

I do have a MB Woolf....very pretty, writes well. Is that an Art Pen? No. Just a real fancy pen; to write with.

The nib is subdued bling. I can see how fancy grand the nib is....you across the table can not.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[MrThoth]

 

 

Not b/c of the pens themselves but b/c of what i do with my pens (use them).

 

I certainly can't quibble with that. I use my pens as well, and while I might buy a $10,000 pen, if I did I would intend to use it, at least lightly. I wouldn't buy it "as an investment," so to speak. (But that's just my personal approach to collectibles, not a criticism of what anybody else wants to do with their own property.)

[MrThoth]

A pen must have a very good nib, be balanced and write well.

Most of those Art pens do neither.

 

I was at a live auction, where some one was selling his Art pen from Montgrappa, with it's own shrine. It weighed a ton. Weighed at least three times more than the heaviest pen I've ever had in my hand.

I'm sure it's good for something other than worshiping it. Perhaps as a signature pen for one's 298 foot yacht.

 

I've seen the Brandenburg from MB....a beautiful pen. Not too heavy to use. Might need a basic six foot wide desk to use it on, but something one could write with.

 

OK, those are some interesting points.

 

I'd think that a luxury/art pen would have a great nib, balance, etc., but I've only ever tried out one. What are others' experiences? Is the "hardware" what you'd expect for the price? Or is it basically a manufacturing afterthought?

 

I also get the heaviness issue. Personally I like my pens much heavier than most collectors seem to, so this isn't necessarily as big a deal for me personally, but even for people like me there's a point of "too heavy."

Edited August 7, 2014 by MrThoth

[brunico]

It's always seemed strange to me that one would buy a fancy, mass-produced version of an everyday object like a fountain pen for hundreds of times the price... or spend a grand on an off-the-peg suit. As you say, though, collectors make up their own criteria about what's desirable and what isn't, and so they have a completely different idea about worth from people who buy pens because they need something to write with.

 

People will spend the same money on ten pens or ten thousand erasers. I have no opinion on any of this. What I find ridiculous is the marketing around so many of these pens. The appeals to "art," "works of art," "master craftsmanship," "timeless elegance" and so on are pompous and overblown, their gushing language the same as those advertisements for cheesy collectors plates and kitsch figurines that Viz wonderfully parodies.

[de_pen_dent]

People will spend the same money on ten pens or ten thousand erasers. I have no opinion on any of this. What I find ridiculous is the marketing around so many of these pens. The appeals to "art," "works of art," "master craftsmanship," "timeless elegance" and so on are pompous and overblown, their gushing language the same as those advertisements for cheesy collectors plates and kitsch figurines that Viz wonderfully parodies.

 

You have a point there.

 

But let me give a different view. I like the handmade paintings and the amount of effort that has gone into making my maki-e pens. I like the innovative designs and flawless workmanship of my MB Writers Editions. The use of marketing hyperbole by itself may be over-blown (and i agree - it often is) but that shouldnt lead to underrating the workmanship of the products themselves.

 

Where I agree with you is that all that marketing hyperbole often adds a significant markup to the price - which i can do without

 

I am one of the guys who has spent a grand (a fair bit more, actually) on off-the-rack suits because they fit me really well, and there was no reason to go custom-tailored (which i have also had done). My goal with buying a suit was to find one which i really liked and which fit me well - as long as it did so, whether it was custom or off-the-shelf doesnt matter. Same thing applies to pens - if i like a design, i dont care if it is a limited edition of 10 or mass-produced in the same quantities as a Lamy Safari.

 

But I understand some people like the appeal of owning something which exists in limited quantities, which is a-ok. Each to their own.

[Namo]

Ok, I'll play... I am long time lover of the Pelikan Pyramid of Gizeh. A ridiculous whim I know, but if...

[gerigo]

Perhaps this is the wrong forum to ask the question? The pens you mention aren't really pens. They are limited editions of art and sculpture that so happen to have a nib to allow for writing. Most of us on this forum actually use the pens we buy. Some even depend on them for their livelihoods. So I imagine a pen that is designed to just look pretty will not fare as well here.

 

I, for one, have changed considerably in how I view fountain pens in the short year I have been in this hobby. I went from contemplating why I should even spend over $100 for a Lamy 2000 a year ago, to just having bought a $1600 limited edition Cartier last week. After which I sunk another 1k on a Nakaya this week. The common theme on all my pens, even the expensive ones, is that they have to perform. I confess my next purchase will be a 10k pen. The order is already in. However I am also trying to decide what nib the pen should have because for me, a pen even of that cost has to write and write well. I don't think I would ever contemplate a pen purely as a decorative element.

Edited August 7, 2014 by gerigo

[VivienR]

Honestly, yes I would buy a pen for 1000$, based on how its looks, what emotions would gave me...

My opinion is, that a pen for 1000$ buck is can be tricky... Yes, you buy large in one time, but simply think about the sum of the "budget" priced pen purchases... I already spent more on those small purchases, than one big...

[MrThoth]

 

 

Perhaps this is the wrong forum to ask the question? The pens you mention aren't really pens. They are limited editions of art and sculpture that so happen to have a nib to allow for writing. Most of us on this forum actually use the pens we buy. Some even depend on them for their livelihoods. So I imagine a pen that is designed to just look pretty will not fare as well here.

 

Perhaps it is -- if so, I'm sure a moderator will move it.

 

I agree that there's a "sculpture" argument to be made for some expensive pens -- that's why I put "art" in the title. But I, too, "actually use" the pens I buy -- as a professional writer I find that writing some stories and other things longhand, with a fountain pen, really aids my creative process. So I wouldn't buy a pen just because it looked good; it has to be able to write. But by the same token, if all I want to do is write, I can get a 25 cent Bic pen and do just fine. I buy fountain pens because they appeal to me based on their combination of looks and utility.

 

There are lots of reasons to collect fountain pens -- like I said in my original post, it's a subjective sort of hobby. So I for one certainly wouldn't object if someone commented on the poor writing quality of a pen if that's the criteria on which they base their collecting. But neither would I object if someone wants to buy a pen based purely or primarily on looks, and I wouldn't criticize that decision by saying "But the nib sucks." It's that person's money, and if that's what he wants to spend it on, cool by me.

Edited August 7, 2014 by MrThoth

[Keyless Works]

"Art" pens in general don't really work for me. The exception might be Maki-e pens but I haven't found one that I liked enough to buy. I can appreciate the beautiful craftsmanship of a David Oscarson or a Caran d'Ache but if they are heavy (which most of them are) then they actually make the writing experience worse and that kills it for me.

 

If I had the money I would gladly pay for some of Patek Philippe's beautiful enamel watches because that wonderful enamel work doesn't in anyway hinder the function of a watch.

[zaddick]

I'd try to buy 2 or 3 $10K pens (at original retail price) that have been lightly used. I have seen several MB POA 888 pens that I like go for the $4-5K range at auction. If this is fun money I would probably go for a few of those and let someone else take most of the depreciation.

 

Actually I might try for a used MB 333 Skeleton and then buy a few smaller pens with the left over funds. there is one on eBat right now that has been slowly dropping in price to about $9K. I'd go for it for $7K and then but a few other fun pens from Visconti, Graf von Faber Castell (some of the Pen of the Year editions), and maybe a few others.

[Polanova]

I`d buy several high end vintage pens like a nice collection of Mabie, Todd & Bard eyedroppers (imho a timeless & hypermodern design) for example.

Plus maybe a painting or a vintage leather sofa?

 

To my mind, a Limited Edition Pen is a collectors item firstly & only a pen secondly.

While it can be used, it`s not really produced with the intention to be used, but to be collected & to be kept in pristine condition.

 

I`ve looked at a fair number of these pens & personally I did not see much art in them. While there are always exceptions, a lot of them appear to me to be grossly over-designed and kitschy.

Given the price tag, I have to assume, that a lot of craft went into the production.

But does craft equals art?

And what is art anyway - especially today, where art is purely measured by ranking and Koons & Hearst are considered as great artists?

Art is about money - just a more "cultivated" form of bonds.

Oops - wrong topic? Sorry.

 

So … I`d buy some antique pens OR a piece of what I`d consider Real Art (A Limited Edition pen wouldn`t cut it with me)

 

Being of course purely subjective here

[Black Spot]

we will assume that I have a extra $10,000.

I am more of a pen user than a pen collector,

just about any time I buy any thing I take the price-performance ratio into account.

As long as I am getting more Quality, reliability out of a product, I am willing to pay more. But past a certain point you have done all you can to improve a product, It just cant be made better.

I am also not interested in irrelevant decoration, diamonds are not interesting to me with out a function.

 

So I would get several nice pens but no limited collector edition art pens.

The only Exception would be if some one custom made a perfect pen for me.

But I assure you from the outside it would be a very Plain pen.

[inkeverywhere]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I look at some ultra expensive pens and think they have to be joking it can't be worth that much.

 

If I had $10K to spend on a FP it would have to be something vintage with a link to history. Dreaming it could be the FP MacArthur signed the Japanese surrender with, I've got to be thinking $10K would not buy that bad boy!

 

Greg

 

"may our fingers remain ink stained"

[orfew]

I would buy one or perhaps two early rare Montblanc safeties. Perhaps a nice large size rouge et noir with the red MB emblem. That should take care of a large portion of the ten grand.

[Michigan]

I am with Zaddick, a used 333 in that range would do it for me.

 

Are there pens meant to separate people from their money? Except for the Bics in hotel rooms, I would say all of them.

 

There are some real stinkers out there, too. I love Montegrappas, but anything appearing in a picture with Sylvester Stallone is completely out. I assume he will be replaced by the Jersey Shore mental deficients as brand ambassadors someday.

 

I also split a hair on terminology. I do not see pens as art, but rather as artisanal. And Homo sapiens have been using adorned or artisanal tools for tens of thousands of years. That is what I see a nice pen as. It is like a Paleolithic spear with a deer carved into it, except that I live more by the pen than the sharp stick.

 

I also see them as pretty cheap luxury. A Louis Vuitton bag starts at about a month's pay for the average American. The average Purdey shotgun about twice what an American makes in a year. A used sterling Montblanc is perhaps $700--maybe a third the cost of an LV purse for the wife. Considering it will outlast me, I consider that a phenomenal deal.

[tonybelding]

I admit that I don't "get" the Oscarson... the Perchin... the MB King Louis the Fat Engraved Limited Edition... I'm not sure who buys pens like that, or what exactly they do with them. Viewed purely as art objects... I would go for something like abstract art glass instead. I'm a sucker for art glass with swirly colors, and I'd rather have something like that to decorate my home, so anyone who visits can see them, rather than fancy-schmancy pens in a cabinet.

 

If I were going on a spending spree for higher-ticket pens, I'd go vintage all the way. I like the history, I like the style, and I like the way many of them write. Also, the most costly vintage pen I've ever contemplated buying was in the $900 range, not thousands.