Hero Pens - Why?

[wastelanded]

 

I guess it is worth noting that Sailor prides itself on its founding story: that the founder received a fountain pen from a foreigner and duplicated it to create the company's first product. I think our esteem for a company has very little to do with its originality, and perhaps sadly too much to do with its ethnicity.

ron

Exactamundo!

[Kugelschreiber]

 

All true, but does that make acceptable to knock off Montblanc? Just calling a spade a shovel here: what's objectionable in one case seems to be acceptable in the other.

 

 

I tend to agree with OFG's post above. And I don't think it was fear of a lawsuit that prevented Sailor from putting the 'bird poop' on the top of the 1911; though I wonder what the people at Platinum would have done if Mt. Fuji were a bit higher.

 

If Hero's pens were as good as Sailor's, I don't think this thread (and others like it) would have been created. People definitely can have prejudices and bits of pattern recognition in their heads about country X's products, but those can change. They certainly did for Japan.

[Moshe ben David]

This reads to me somewhat along the lines of "I don't want to pay for it, therefore stealing is fine."

 

Well said indeed!

[Moshe ben David]

SNIP...

 

I won't ever defend a pen labeled as something it's not, whether it's a Hero pretending to be a Montblanc, or one of those horrifying things full of spider legs and bits of tin which is pretending to be a Hero (yes, there are knock-offs of Heros). However, when the pen doing the looking like is branded properly, and it writes in keeping with its cost, I have no complaints to level. I've only ever held a Montblanc, a Montegrappa, or and Anchora because someone said to me, "Do you think you can get this thing to write?" and that's utterly scandalous. This thing below, which admits to not actually being a Parker Sonnet, worked brilliantly out of the box.

 

http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Baoer-0383.jpg

 

.... SNIP

 

In my opinion, Hero producing and marketing this pen would be fine, IF AND ONLY IF they did not also copy aesthetic design elements such as the clip design. As described throughout this thread, Hero has been at this for a while; they do introduce "new" products into their line. Why do they need to still copy the Parker 'arrow' clip -- unless they want recognize that such symbolizes Parker to customers both inside and outside of China?

 

btw, this business of illicit copying of design goes far beyond luxury items like fountain pens. A big problem in industry has been fake copies of fasteners (that would be screws etc to non-manufacturing types). The copies are made from weaker materials which tend to fail in the field early due in part to lack of corrosion resistance.

 

China has technical expertise. The engineers are good. The problem is business people who lack ethics.

[Moshe ben David]

As often happens in discussions of this type, many people seem confused over the difference between patents, copyrights, trademarks and trade dress. These all fall under the general heading of "intellectual property", but they are all different things!

 

As far as I know, Hero do not use any patents that aren't already expired. (Patents have pretty short life span.) As far as I know, they don't violate anyone's copyright -- which hardly even applies to fountain pens, unless you were to copy their instruction manuals or ad copy. That leaves trademarks and trade dress.

 

As far as I know, Hero don't use the Parker (or Lamy) names or logos, so that scratches trademark infringement off the list.

 

That leaves trade dress, which would include the Parker arrow clip or the distinctive shape and appearance of the Lamy Safari. However, I'm not sure if such things are even covered by the IP laws in China, or internationally. Even if they do, it's relatively minor in the scheme of things. Even if Parker or Lamy were able and inclined to hassle them over it, Hero could make some minor cosmetic changes and continue.

 

Tony, the question is, why doesn't Hero make those minor cosmetic changes and continue? The only answers I can think of are that (a) they don't want to be bothered with the investment, especially because ( those cosmetic features in fact carry an aura of a level of quality and luxury associated with the original manufacturers -- e.g., Parker and Lamy et al. Which is why I and some others consider what Hero is doing to be the equivalent theft.

[balson]

 

Well said indeed!

 

out of curiousity did you pay igor shpilenok the royalties to use his photo as your icon? i dont mean to single you out specifically but i think everyone has taken design for granted at one point or another and i think user icons are perhaps a good example.

Edited July 16, 2014 by balson

[wastelanded]

I have Goethe's permission to use his profile as my avatar. Thanks, Ouija.

[OLD TIMER]

I am opposed to replicas, unless it's something that I want

[TSherbs]

 

Tony, the question is, why doesn't Hero make those minor cosmetic changes and continue? The only answers I can think of are that (a) they don't want to be bothered with the investment, especially because ( those cosmetic features in fact carry an aura of a level of quality and luxury associated with the original manufacturers -- e.g., Parker and Lamy et al. Which is why I and some others consider what Hero is doing to be the equivalent theft.

No one believes that an arrow clip on a 5 dollar pen (less, in China) makes it anything more than a really, really cheap pen with a Chinese label on it. I mean, really.

[TSherbs]

I am opposed to replicas, unless it's something that I want

I am opposed to replication, except in many biological situations where it keeps me alive.

[Cryptos]

Better give Harrison Ford a call... oh, wait, that's replicants!

 

 

In my opinion, Hero producing and marketing this pen would be fine, IF AND ONLY IF they did not also copy aesthetic design elements such as the clip design. As described throughout this thread, Hero has been at this for a while; they do introduce "new" products into their line. Why do they need to still copy the Parker 'arrow' clip -- unless they want recognize that such symbolizes Parker to customers both inside and outside of China?

 

btw, this business of illicit copying of design goes far beyond luxury items like fountain pens. A big problem in industry has been fake copies of fasteners (that would be screws etc to non-manufacturing types). The copies are made from weaker materials which tend to fail in the field early due in part to lack of corrosion resistance.

 

China has technical expertise. The engineers are good. The problem is business people who lack ethics.

 

Key word from the above is 'opinion'. No laws are being broken. End. Of.

 

 

Fun fact: the probability of changing someone's opinion on the internet is significantly smaller than the chances of winning the national lottery. (98% of the highly opinionated people I asked said this was true, so it is).

Edited July 17, 2014 by Cryptos

[Beckwith]

 

If Hero was a Japanese company, this debate wouldn't be happening.

 

 

I'd like to think it's more along the lines of "if Hero were a company that produced expensive pens with precious metal nibs, this debate wouldn't be happening." For me at least that's basically why I don't think of Hero and the Sailor's 1911 the same way.

 

Maybe I'm mistaken though, I don't really have a way of knowing if it's the price or ethnicity of the pen that motivates others' impressions.

[proton007]

Bash Hero all you want, their 100 Flighter is quite a well made pen, even better than the P51 Flighter, has a 10 or 12k gold nib, and sells for an embarrassingly low price when compared to other brands. The regular 100 isn't bad either. Seems to me Hero have improved on the P51 design long after Parker stopped making them.

 

Surviving works of the past are subject to imitation, there's nothing surprising in that. However, continual improvement and research keeps the design and performance in a state of transition, so the latest and greatest usually offers better performance per dollar, driving the older products to obsolescence.

 

Companies stopped pouring money into FPs in the 80s, hence that river of innovation has long since dried up, atleast in the West. In the East I can see brands like Pilot still trying to make an effort, largely supported by their internal market.

 

So I hold that even brands like Pelikan are copying their own designs...which they came up with in the 60s. Effectively one is paying today's premiums for a product of the past; Hero gives one solace in the fact that the prices are dirt cheap.

 

Infact this might be the most disturbing aspect of this hobby. Buying a new FP today puts one in a state of perpetual quandary with regards to the significance of the pen model. A painful reminder of a golden age, or a copy just being sold to make a few bucks off nostalgic customers?

Edited July 17, 2014 by proton007

[OcalaFlGuy]

I am opposed to replicas, unless it's something that I want

 

<Missing clapping hands emoticon X Pi!>

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

Hero in its own right makes a good bunch of decent pens, some better than others. They also make sure to stamp their own name on their pens. To be fair, do the parts of the the Hero 100 and 616 interchange with the Parker pens they look similar to? No, they don't. If you've ever taken apart a Hero 100, you will know that the pen is quite well done in its own right and is internally constructed quite differently. While the Hero 616 has similar construction to the Parker "51," Parker gave up building a self-filling pen in that pattern many years ago, and the Hero has a clear clutch ring so that you can see the ink level. That said, the Hero 616 does have quite a resemblance to the Parker "51" in design and construction. They are quite alike indeed, possibly even down to the arrow clip. I think they stepped over a line when they copied the Lamy though. Some of the parts even interchange. To be fair, the pen is indeed probably out of patent protection.

 

Hero pens tend to be known to be decent or even quite good writers with fairly fine nibs. In my experience, they tend to have fairly good consistency when it comes to nibs, and the consistency even rivals Pilot who also seems to have quite good consistency. Hero pens themselves are not really all that long lasting considering the materials used which tend to be a bit flimsy, but then the pen is cheap enough that you can either have a few on hand or just buy a new one if the one you are using falls apart. They aren't horrible though and can be fairly reliable in my experience. I've had a few Hero 616 pens outlast other lesser Chinese pens. If I didn't have other pens that are more durable with nicer fit and finish, I would consider getting a few Hero 616 pens again just to have them around. Hero has a few things, relatively low cost, fairly good consistency, and relatively good reliability. They can be almost a sort of top tier Chinese pen as very few Chinese pens rival their quality, and where else can you buy a pen with an integrated filling mechanism at a low price point anyway?

 

Dillon

[paultyler_82]

Just a few other thoughts... Hero and Kaigelu have never kept me from buying a new Parker. What keeps me from buying a new Parker is the vintage Parkers and Newell Rubbermaid. IF Newell stopped treating the Parker brand as a joke and/or a vehicle to sell overpriced LE Duofolds and tarted-up felt tip markers, I might care about modern Parkers. They could start by bringing the 51 or 100 back and continue by making Sonnets that actually write more than once out of ten times.

[Dillo]

Just a few other thoughts... Hero and Kaigelu have never kept me from buying a new Parker. What keeps me from buying a new Parker is the vintage Parkers and Newell Rubbermaid. IF Newell stopped treating the Parker brand as a joke and/or a vehicle to sell overpriced LE Duofolds and tarted-up felt tip markers, I might care about modern Parkers. They could start by bringing the 51 or 100 back and continue by making Sonnets that actually write more than once out of ten times.

 

Not the 100, that was a nightmare. There is a lot wrong with that design. If they make the "51" as they did in the past and not like that "Special Edition" that would be quite nice. They used to make some very nice pens in the past, but their current range leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Dillon

[FarmBoy]

Great post and very informative for many here!

and mostly Internet lore.

[GeneralSynopsis]

... Under direction of their government some of these companies have conducted industrial espionage and infected phones with consumer unfriendly virusi. They have either avoided or perjured themselves in U.S. Government investigations of these actions. IF I am able to identify consumer goods as being made by such Chinese companies, I do and will avoid purchasing those goods...

So unlike the actions of US Government and its intelligence agencies.... Or Putin's laughable suggestion that if you do not like US based search engines passing all your data to US intelligence agencies you use Yandex instead (give me your data rather than let them have it).

Edited July 18, 2014 by GeneralSynopsis

[FarmBoy]

So unlike the actions of US Government and its intelligence agencies.... Or Putin's laughable suggestion that if you do not like US based search engines passing all your data to US intelligence agencies you use Yandex instead (give me your data rather than let them have it).

I just checked our logs. You have no data we want.