Hero Pens - Why?

[wastelanded]

Why doesn't anyone bang on about the Sailor 1911 being a 'knock-off' of the Montblanc Meisterstück?

 

Don't tell me it's not, because it is. Especially following the logic put forward by some in this troll of a thread.

[paultyler_82]

Why doesn't anyone bang on about the Sailor 1911 being a 'knock-off' of the Montblanc Meisterstück?

 

Don't tell me it's not, because it is. Especially following the logic put forward by some in this troll of a thread.

It seems to me that this is one of those threads that is started with innocuous wording that is only intended to invite brand bashing. Apparently it didn't quite go the direction expected. Edited July 15, 2014 by paultyler_82

[recluse]

It seems to me that this is one of those threads that is started with innocuous wording that is only intended to invite brand bashing. Apparently it didn't quite go the direction expected.

 

Honestly, I don't think this is the case. In our everyday life we used to apply certain judgement, when it comes to people taking someone's else ideas. Ideas in a broad sense, from business inventions to conversation starters and pickup lines. The ethical ground for such judgement is not that obvious and is often confused with existing legal environment. I do believe the thread was started with the thought "I feel something is immoral" but it quickly went into a different direction.

[tryphon]

Why do people buy Heros? Because they are good value and they are made to be used, not to be expensive toys or "Signature pens". In China people prefer fountain pens because they are economical and they are perfect for the Chinese alphabet. These are working pens: use them and they get better with use. They sell for ridiculous prices. They do not hurt the business of Western penmakers: the average Chinese factory worker or peasant could never afford even a lowly Lamy Safari. These pens fill a need in their home market. We are lucky that we have access to them at ridiculous prices! Buy from a reputable Western retailer: they will make sure the nib is OK and the pen is defect-free. The additional couple of bucks in price is well justified given the sloppy quality control of most (not all) Chinese penmakers. Finally, Chinese nibs have improved enormously in later years: I guess computer controlled manufacturing must now be used: some of my Chinese nibs are outstanding. Enjoy Heros and other Chinese pens. Have fun!

Edited July 15, 2014 by tryphon

[OcalaFlGuy]

Hero 100's Especially the Flighters are perfectly fine pens and perhaps The Closest to the Parkers. Even the Beeg Dawg Pros will agree with that.

 

And then there's this;

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HERO-340-rare-Vintage-70s-NOS-in-Orig-Box-Gold-Metal-Aeromertic-Fountain-Pen-NR-/121378105311

 

IMO, worth Every Single Penny of the approx. $20 the bidder paid for it Sunday. (On the Sunday's Picks List)

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[The Blue Knight]

I've got good pens and I choose to use only sub £15 for lectures. They serve a purpose letting me leave my expensive pens at home where they are safe. I've had expensive pens that write worse then any Chinese pen I have bought. So if a Hero writes well I will happily use it.

 

I ultimately I don't really care as everything is made in china these days be it a Hero, Cross or Sheaffer.

[wastelanded]

It seems to me that this is one of those threads that is started with innocuous wording that is only intended to invite brand bashing. Apparently it didn't quite go the direction expected.

I agree. But the brand bashing seems to be limited to China.

[TSherbs]

I agree. But the brand bashing seems to be limited to China.

Common on these pages when one wants to denigrate design imitation.

[Blue_Moon]

 

Honestly, I don't think this is the case. In our everyday life we used to apply certain judgement, when it comes to people taking someone's else ideas. Ideas in a broad sense, from business inventions to conversation starters and pickup lines. The ethical ground for such judgement is not that obvious and is often confused with existing legal environment. I do believe the thread was started with the thought "I feel something is immoral" but it quickly went into a different direction.

 

You are right. Only I would change the word "immoral" to "just not quite right about this." It started as an innocent question because I couldn't wrap my head around why people buy hero pens. I got answers as to why they do it, which I understand. In that, I gained knowledge that I didn't have before. However, it seems me that there is an overwhelming incentive to justify purchasing them, by some people, not all. As for my own view, I still don't feel "comfortable - for lack of a better word, in purchasing them. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. I have to answer for my own decisions, not anyone elses. However, as I said, I now understand many of the reasons why people purchase them, and I don't look down on anyone purchasing them, I don't judge anyone for purchasing them, etc. I set out to understand (thus the subject title), and I think I've achieved that. Thank you for your responses.

[Cryptos]

So, in summary.

 

1. Hero Pen Company: makes cheap pens that look a bit (or a lot) like those of other manufacturers.
2. Rationale: there exists a market (actually quite a big one) for pens for this price point and design factor.
3. Legality: no laws are being broken.
4. Market impact for other pen makers: none

 

Western buyers

 

if you are in the market to buy such a pen, buy it.

 

If you buy it, don't complain about it - be hypocritical to do so.

 

If you do not wish to buy such a pen, refresh your memory of points 1 - 4, then go buy something else.

 

 

All looks pretty simple to me. Have I missed anything?

Edited July 16, 2014 by Cryptos

[maus930]

I agree with vintage-- I have a number of hero pens and they are an excellent value -- and I don;t know of any US makers that are being copied

[OLD TIMER]

Everyone needs a 'Hero' !

I need one. I'm holding out for a hero until the morning light and she's be and she gotta be brave and she's gotta be stronger than life.

Alright, I'm just waiting for my puppy to come get in my lap

[Pickwick]

The definition of fake, is to deliberately deceive. Hero aren't doing this because they are clearly stamping their logo on pen designs similar to certain leading brands.

 

What I don't understand is the antagonism over this. No one is being forced to buy Hero pens, it all comes down to choice. As long as Hero sees a viable market they will no doubt continue. It's all up to us, if everyone decides not to buy Hero products with similarities to well known brands, then they will be forced to cease production.

 

I for one find Hero pens reliable writers, and given the number of postings with problems and issues regarding expensive well known brands, I happily support Hero.

[elysee]

So, in summary.

 

 

• Hero Pen Company: makes cheap pens that look a bit (or a lot) like those of other manufacturers.
• Rationale: there exists a market (actually quite a big one) for pens for this price point and design factor.
• Legality: no laws are being broken.
• Market impact for other pen makers: none

Western buyers

 

if you are in the market to buy such a pen, buy it.

 

If you buy it, don't complain about it - be hypocritical to do so.

 

If you do not wish to buy such a pen, refresh your memory of points 1 - 4, then go buy something else.

 

 

All looks pretty simple to me. Have I missed anything?

NICELY SAID!! I APPLAUD YOU!!! : )

[Kugelschreiber]

Why doesn't anyone bang on about the Sailor 1911 being a 'knock-off' of the Montblanc Meisterstück?

 

Don't tell me it's not, because it is. Especially following the logic put forward by some in this troll of a thread.

 

Perhaps because the Sailor is considered by most to be a great pen in its own right. Plus, Sailor is held in such high regard in general. Hero isn't.

[erpe]

1. Hero Pen Company: makes cheap pens that look a bit (or a lot) like those of other manufacturers.
2. Rationale: there exists a market (actually quite a big one) for pens for this price point and design factor.
3. Legality: no laws are being broken.
4. Market impact for other pen makers: none

All looks pretty simple to me. Have I missed anything?

 

That about sums it up nicely. If the conversation is focusing on copying, one might add that the Hero's don't claim to be anything else like, for example, the famous Black Mont pens.

BTW, why focus on Hero. I didn't see any complains about, again for example, the JinHao 159 (149) and the Baoer 79 (starwalker)

[wastelanded]

 

Perhaps because the Sailor is considered by most to be a great pen in its own right. Plus, Sailor is held in such high regard in general. Hero isn't.

 

All true, but does that make acceptable to knock off Montblanc? Just calling a spade a shovel here: what's objectionable in one case seems to be acceptable in the other.

Edited July 16, 2014 by wastelanded

[OcalaFlGuy]

Re; this all getting to the point of Sailor "ripping off" MB.

 

In my opinion, that's just rubbish.

 

Just because Sailor may have a pen that has the same shape and kind of looks like some MB just Isn't enough. Lots of cars today for mainly aerodynamic advancement reasons Strongly resemble each other, that doesn't mean they STOLE some other companies design. If MB will pressure Ebay to Completely Remove a well known (FPNer) restorer's Multiple listings for NON-MB pens from Ebay, Just Because he uses the Word Montblanc in a legitimate non-infringing sentence in his listings, you can bet your Precious Resin that MB would bring all living legal hellfire and brimstone down on Sailor if Sailor were legitimately infringing on MB's patents or intellectual properties.

 

If you don't want to believe me, fine, how 'bout you believe these "ripped off" companies Themselves?

 

Let's look at the Parker Sonnet. (I use that as an example vs the quoted examples of the P-51, P-61's as those pens Are No Longer In Production, To ME that's a Critical differing point.)

 

Has Parker gone after the pure out and out counterfeiters of the Sonnet, the pens that say "Parker Sonnet" on them but Aren't? You bet your sweet Big Red they have. What about the "homage" Sonnets, I can think of 4 or 5 of those? Pens that STRONGLY resemble the Sonnet but clearly say the company Making Them's name All Over It. Is Parker going against them to protect their "rights" re; a Current Production pen of theirs?

 

Err...

 

No. They're not. (That I'm aware of anyway.)

 

There you have it. Legitimate Infringing on Intellectual Property and Trademarks is to me, like Porn.

 

You may not so easily be able to specifically describe it, but you Know it when you See it.

 

I myself will admit that I go out of my way to AVOID certain consumer products from China that I can identify as being CLOSELY controlled by the Chinese government. There are a couple cell phone companies for example. Under direction of their government some of these companies have conducted industrial espionage and infected phones with consumer unfriendly virusi. They have either avoided or perjured themselves in U.S. Government investigations of these actions. IF I am able to identify consumer goods as being made by such Chinese companies, I do and will avoid purchasing those goods.

 

I don't see and haven't heard that to be the case with Hero pens.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

 

[wastelanded]

Just because Sailor may have a pen that has the same shape and kind of looks like some MB just Isn't enough. Lots of cars today for mainly aerodynamic advancement reasons Strongly resemble each other, that doesn't mean they STOLE some other companies design.

 

I understand what you're saying, and I agree. Especially when it comes to dodgy companies re: cellphones and other electronic goods. Even though that has no bearing on the present discussion, unless Hero is installing hidden electronics in those 616s.

 

But "may have", "kind of looks like"? Granted, Sailor omitted one thin cap band and the bird poop...probably to avoid a lawsuit. Other than that, a little more than "kind of".

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If Hero was a Japanese company, this debate wouldn't be happening.

 

ETA: I imagine this will be taken down or I will be banned for not toeing the Party Line/bashing a Sacred Cow.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2014 by wastelanded

[rwilsonedn]

 

All true, but does that make acceptable to knock off Montblanc? Just calling a spade a shovel here: what's objectionable in one case seems to be acceptable in the other.

 

I guess it is worth noting that Sailor prides itself on its founding story: that the founder received a fountain pen from a foreigner and duplicated it to create the company's first product. I think our esteem for a company has very little to do with its originality, and perhaps sadly too much to do with its ethnicity.

ron