Why Do Cartridges Have Such A Small Ink Capacity?

[rochester21]

Inspired by the "Piston fillers" thread, i decided to start another, regarding the capacity of ink cartridges. I could never understand why no company has ever tried to come up with a truly large capacity cartridge. Or an ink window for fountain pens that use cartridges.

 

I mean, piston fillers have them- large capacity(maybe not the reform 1745), ink window. Even rollerball pens have them! What makes it impossible to make a large cylinder with walls made from thin metal?

 

I blame it on the fountain pen companies, that devised the cartridges so that users will have to buy overpriced ink in small containers, that needed to be replaced often.

 

Do you have other theories explaining the sometimes ridiculously small size of ink cartridges? Let`s hear it.

http://i57.tinypic.com/ofc2np.jpg

Edited May 28, 2014 by rochester21

[gwet432]

Maybe, because cartridges are used mainly by children learning to write, and it's easier for them to manipulate smaller cartridges, or store them in a pencil case. Also, regarding the small standard cartridge, selling overpriced ink in small containers is not always the case, for example those "value pack" bags of cartridges at the supermarket.

In the case of higher end manufacturers making small, expensive cartridges like Parker, I have to agree with you. Then again, take Caran D'Ache for example, they make some bottled inks that make a cartridge look big.

[Zuzu]

There are some pens that utilize ink windows in cartridge pens like the Lamy Safari/Al Star. However I never found them particular useful, as they aren't that good to gauge the ink level.

 

I am not sure if small cartridges were developed for children, but they certainly are useful in school. The short international cartridges also have the advantage that many pens like the pelikano can 'store' a second cartridge in the barrel. You don't have to worry to accidently run out during a test that way and you can't loose it either.

 

When I discovered converters for myself, I once asked my mother if she knew them and why we never got one when me and my sibling were ins school and she said that our teachers didn't allow bottled ink in class as there are always kids who accidently spill it. That said, cartridges in royal blue (as they are used in school over here) come quite cheap in large packs or even plastic 'bottles' storing 50-100 cartidges.

[ac12]

The problem is something called least common denominator.

To save on cost, the cartridge has to fit into MANY different pens of different sizes, both large and small.

So, to give the pen designers more room to design, they make the cartridge small, and the designers can make the pen larger or smaller. A large pen can use a smaller cartridge, but a small pen cannot use a large cartridge.

- An example of the first is the Parker 75 and Parker 180. The both take the same cartridge but the 75 is larger in diameter than the 180. Parker could have made a larger capacity cartridge for the 75, but that would mean making, stocking and distributing yet another set of ink cartridges. Pen companies were fighting for shelf space, at stationary stores. Having multiple cartridge sizes could create confusion for the buyers and selling/logistical issues for the stores.

- An example of the later is the current Cross Classic Century and the Spire series of pens The pen is smaller than the standard Cross Cartridges. Cross had to make a completely new slim cartridge for the pen. And BTW that also means the ink converters do not fit the new pens, because the pen is so much smaller.

Edited May 28, 2014 by ac12

[Kansas Pen]

You might indeed be right in one sense - that Manufacturers' plan on "add-on" sales of most any product. They are in business to sell. They would love to sell us more ink, more pens. That's fundamental marketing.

 

But I would also tend to believe that the early reason that cartridges of the well known brands were shaped in the size they were - was to conform to the size and shape of commonly available pens.

 

I think of the vintage pens I have of Sheaffer as they are very common in mid central USA antique markets. Back then - 20's thru the 50's anyway, pens were made in much slimmer styles. Pens were also made shorter. When the USA went to war, Sheaffer started to make pens with abbreviated clips (Tuckaway) so they would not show overtly in uniform pockets. I believe the War Dept even "approved" the clips for uniform wear. (Any fountain pen historians want to confirm this?)

 

The vintage Waterman's and Parkers were made pretty slim as well. And Parker and Waterman made longer cartridges to expand the useful ink available while keeping relatively (to today) slimmer bodies. Cross made their pen bodies so that the small cartridge could be placed in the bottom of the body under the cartridge in use. The bottom cartridge is reversed so to match the style of the reverse body taper. And their pen bodies still today reflect a slimmer style. They knew their customers well. You can't argue with literal millions of thin Cross ballpoints sold in this country. They were a big hit!

 

Larger size barrels were the exception.

 

So I think we are the inheritor's of historic patterns of the early pens of the 1900's, the era when everyone used a fountain pen. Made for men and women and children to use. They were shaped for every hand and large pens did not become so common until the modern era. And they were filled with ink with ink sacs (and eyedropper bodies) through all the various methods we see today in use and in our vintage pens.

 

Cartridges came later and by this time the "die" was indeed cast and it would be counter intuitive to start offering a different cartridge for every size and shape of pen. And we inherited the economy of scale that the manufacturers built into that system. I still think of the good old days, scarcely 10-15 years ago when you could buy a box of Sheaffer convertors for $2.

 

So no, I don't think it is a "conspiracy" but a reflection of history.

[doggonecarl]

It don't know about "too" small. By the time I'm nearing the end of a international short cartridge, I'm ready to either change ink, change pens, or both.

[carlos.q]

I blame it on the fountain pen companies, that devised the cartridges so that users will have to buy overpriced ink in small containers, that needed to be replaced often.

 

+1

Disposable cartridges, disposable pens, disposable razors, etc. They are all devised so that users will have to keep buying replacements.

[jar]

Why do you think cartridges are too small or hold too little ink?

 

Have you actually checked to see how much ink different piston or lever or plunger filler pens hold?

[FountainPages]

Not all cartridges are small...Lamy, Sailor, Pilot, Aurora, and Platinum all hold substantially more than Short Int'l. and then there are Int'l Longs! Some of these hold more than Pistons.

[Sasha Royale]

Remove the barrel.

Pull the empty cart.

Push in another.

Replace barrel.

 

***************

The abbreviation for July is "JUL". Come on ! Who's in such a hurry ?

[erpe]

I think most converters hold anywhere between 1 and 2 ml which is in the same realm as a Parker, Waterman or an int long cartridge.swapping cartridges on the road is much easier than carrying bottles with you and a C/C pen gives you the opportunity to eyedrop, something a pistonfiller only does after destructive modification. Capacitywise, I think nothing beats the eyedroper.

Is there a similar list with pistonfiller capacity? Would be interesting.

[Algester]

nah eye dropper yes beats all category in terms of capacity but eye dropper pens follow the size of the barrel what if your barrel is as small as the peter pan micro pen... which happens to be one of the smallest pens in the world.

also I have to think about that cartridges also need to fill up the feed of the pen thus having to "waste" more ink just to fill the section meaning if your pen has a long section your spending about .5 ml of ink just to fill the section if you have a convertor/converter which is also essentially a cartridge your filling up that feed first then your cartridge meaning you could have about .2-.5 ml difference depending on the feed length + your converter... so I'm curious is there a way to saturate your feed while using a cartridge while still having a full cartridge

[erpe]

The ink in the feed is not wasted, that is what the pen still writes with after the cartridge has been depleted so if you replace the cartridge immediately after it has been emptied, your feed is still full and so is your new cartridge. That's what you're looking for? Color swapping is not an option in this scenario of course.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The only reason the War was won, was the fountain pen did not stick out of a soldiers pocket in an unsightly, un-military way. Ask any REMF Col. it was the only way to make it to spit&polish General.

 

 

The old Sheaffer cartridge held 1.60 ml, the same as that Huge oversized MB149.

A 0.8 international cartridge piggy back holds the same.

A 200/400 holds 1.27, 600/800= 1.37, the 1000=1.47.

The myth of Piston pens holding so much more .... died....is ok, I still prefer piston pens.

 

There is a Visconti piston pen that holds, 2.2 I think.

then there is Fountanable's(sp) new pen that holds a real ton of ink.

[fledermaus89]

The only reason the War was won, was the fountain pen did not stick out of a soldiers pocket in an unsightly, un-military way. Ask any REMF Col. it was the only way to make it to spit&polish General.

 

 

The old Sheaffer cartridge held 1.60 ml, the same as that Huge oversized MB149.

A 0.8 international cartridge piggy back holds the same.

A 200/400 holds 1.27, 600/800= 1.37, the 1000=1.47.

The myth of Piston pens holding so much more .... died....is ok, I still prefer piston pens.

 

There is a Visconti piston pen that holds, 2.2 I think.

then there is Fountanable's(sp) new pen that holds a real ton of ink.

 

That is what I thought, too. Piston fillers look like they hold more ink especially with demonstrators but in actuality I never felt they held as much ink as they seemed to hold. Conversely, the walls of cartridges or converters are much thinner than piston fillers since they are protected by the outer barrel, so they can hold more ink than you may think if you're used to piston fillers. First time I realized how narrow the radius of the ink chamber of these piston fillers was when I broke my M300 in half; granted it is a very small pen but the wall thickness was about the same as the diameter of the ink chamber. Here's a photo Mike Masuyama took when it broke again while on its way to him.

[Rose Nibs]

I immediately thought of the old Sheaffer cartridges and Bo Bo has saved me the trouble of measuring one. With a fine nib I comfortably get a day's writing out of the 0.9 ml Pilot cartridge but it wouldn't be so comfortable with a medium nib. I think that the switch to cartridges might have resulted in school pens that didn't get through the day on one cartridge. I never used cartridge pens when I was a student, they were lever fillers in the 60s or the Parker aerometrics, and they held enough.

[FarmBoy]

Perhaps cartridges are sized to fit inside the barrel of most pens to avoid the need for hundreds of special sized cartridges. This of course means the are no larger than the smallest pen.

 

But think about it. If every pen model had a special cartridge we could start a thread asking why someone couldn't just make a cartridge that fit any pen.

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

If you look at cartridges and self-filling pens side by side, the ink capacity of a cartridge isn't really all that much different. In my experience, the maximum practical volume a pen can hold without having any shutoff valves is about 2 ml. Many self-filling pens with pistons or other built in mechanisms hold anywhere from 0.7-2.0 ml depending on the pen. Of course there are pens that hold more or less, but it isn't really all that different from cartridges. Converters are slightly different as well.

 

To properly test the ink capacity of a pen with a converter or self-filling mechanism (built-in), one should fill the pen and weigh it before and after or fill the pen from a graduated cylinder. The feed holds a certain amount of ink, and even if you wipe the nib, you will still be writing with the ink stored in the feed for several pages before you get to the ink stored in the converter or pen itself. Because of this, the ink in the feed should be always factored in. The ink capacity of different pens of the same brand, even with the same converter, can be different if different feeds are used. Additionally, converters have dead volume or volume that is always empty, so one can't just fill the converter with ink to see how much ink it actually holds (which is why the Goulet's test on Pilot converter capacities has some serious issues).

 

Dillon

Edited May 29, 2014 by Dillo

[Ernst Bitterman]

Parker "51" Aero: 1.5 ml

Sheaffer Snorkel: 0.7 ml

Eversharp Skyline: 1.2 ml

Pelikan 140: 1.0 ml

 

I choose these examples as being popular models from the period when FPs were in common, everyday use, and bottled ink was all there was. Not MUCH different from the complained-of cartridges, right? The reason they hold so little that they have to fit in pens, and pens must fit in hands (some OS models excepted ). If you want higher capacities, you need a giant pen. I believe the Noodler's Ahab rigged for eyedropper use holds above 5 ml, of which you might usefully enjoy 3.

[UK Mike]

I am never sure why people think they need huge amounts of ink, but the fact remains that when a piston fill pen is out of ink "in service", you need to carry a bottle of ink or a ballpoint. I rarely use one colour ink for long enough to need large ink capacity, and piston fillers are generally more difficult to flush out.

 

It has already been pointed out that many notable piston fillers don't hold much more ink (if any) than a Long International cartridge. Even the huge MB149 only contains a feeble dribble of ink more than a long Waterman cartridge even when you taken care to fill it to capacity.

Eyedroppers have far too many compromises for me to consider them.

 

The answer for me is to use a removable piston filler (some call them converters) and if I need more capacity than that I carry a spare cartridge as a reserve - clean, convenient and reliable. If I was on a journey, then a whole pack of cartridges is so much safer to carry than an ink bottle.