Smoothness vs. Nib Type

[zyg]

All my pens have regular round nibs, size EF, F and M (just one M, used not so often). I have a small handwriting and feel comfortable with thin lines. As a result, I have no experience (nor can make comparison) with M, B, BB, italic, stub, oblique, etc. nibs.

 

I just wonder how you define smoothness. I consider all my EF or F nibs as smooth, but it is just my perception - maybe somebody else would define those nibs as toothy or not-so-smooth.

 

I imagine that while making BB nib smooth may be quite easy, the same with EF nib is not. Maybe we have to compromise saying that EF nib will never glide across the page as smoothly as BB nib.

 

So my questions are - is there a relationship between the level of smoothness and nib size? What level of smoothness you expect from your EF compared to broader nibs?

 

Thanks in advance for expaining this issue.

 

zyg

 

[Col]

My take on this is that any standard nib ought to be smooth, regardless. The finer the point though, the less margin for 'error'. Consequently, finer nibs are less forgiving of sloppy writing styles, and require more precision in terms of the angle to paper and so on.

[marklavar]

As a rule of thumb, the broader the nib, the smoother it is. Of course, this does not mean that fine and extra-fine nibs have necessarily to be scratchy. But the larger 'footprint' of the broader nibs allows for less friction with the paper, and a smoother experience for the writer.

 

Personally, I use either F or M nibs, depending on the pen. With Japanese pens I always go for M nibs as these are narrower than in Western brands. With other brands, it depends; some brands, like Waterman, have different width of nibs even between their models (eg. the Edson has a narrower nib than the Exception).

However, I never use XF nibs and B nibs, as both produce too extreme a line.

[goodyear]

Also, a broader nib lays more ink down, so has more lubrication between it and the paper.

 

I think. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[zyg]

Marklavar - you confirm my expectation that the broader the nib the smoother it is.

I just want to know whether it is just a rule of thumb or a more general rule. My Aurora F nib (writes more like EF) is very smooth, however I feel Dunhill M nib smoother (ink flow is excellent in both pens). I am tempted to buy a Japanese pen as they are famous of their smoothness and then make some comparisons.

 

My theory based on very limited experience is - for a given hand there is a "final, ultimate" value of smoothness that can be reached for a specific type of nib.

Right or wrong?

[meanwhile]

How smooth a good XF nib feels to you depends a lot on how much pressure you use while writing, as well as nib quality. And it is certainly more important to have a good quality nib on an XF, and to use an ink with better lubricating properties.

 

Don't forget that you can have a nib smoothed by a meister, or do it yourself with some micromesh if you feel brave:

 

www.nibs.com/Article6SmoothingAdjusting.htm

 

Few companies make really good untweaked XF nibs these days. Sailor have the best reputation (their F is actually an XF) and I've found Rotring to be excellent, if you like hard nibs and can find a pen body whose grip you can tolerate.

[marklavar]

QUOTE (zyg @ Mar 1 2007, 02:44 AM)

Marklavar - you confirm my expectation that the broader the nib the smoother it is. I just want to know whether it is just a rule of thumb or a more general rule. My Aurora F nib (writes more like EF) is very smooth, however I feel Dunhill M nib smoother (ink flow is excellent in both pens). I am tempted to buy a Japanese pen as they are famous of their smoothness and then make some comparisons. My theory based on very limited experience is - for a given hand there is a "final, ultimate" value of smoothness that can be reached for a specific type of nib. Right or wrong?

Smoothness and nib width is a generic rule, but then again smoothness of nibs varies between pen brands. So it's not so simple!

 

The smoothest nibs I've used have been by Sailor, ST Dupont, Namiki/Pilot, Omas and Stipula. The high-end models from Parker, Sheaffer, Visconti and Waterman also have very smooth nibs. In general, smooth nibs tend to be the rule with modern pens, rather than the exception. Vintage pens have more tooth, but a lot of people prefer them because the tooth reflects a more genuine fountain pen feel - in their opinion.

[JRodriguez]

I also like the tooth because it gives me more control over the characteristics of my writing - that grab makes a big difference in forcing me to slow down and not letting my hand scrawl all over the place, as happens for me when I use a nib that is very smooth. As for smoothness, another big factor is ink flow. The more ink flow, the smoother the writing experience in general.

[Ray-Vigo]

QUOTE (marklavar @ Mar 1 2007, 11:27 AM)

QUOTE (zyg @ Mar 1 2007, 02:44 AM) Marklavar - you confirm my expectation that the broader the nib the smoother it is. I just want to know whether it is just a rule of thumb or a more general rule. My Aurora F nib (writes more like EF) is very smooth, however I feel Dunhill M nib smoother (ink flow is excellent in both pens). I am tempted to buy a Japanese pen as they are famous of their smoothness and then make some comparisons. My theory based on very limited experience is - for a given hand there is a "final, ultimate" value of smoothness that can be reached for a specific type of nib. Right or wrong? Smoothness and nib width is a generic rule, but then again smoothness of nibs varies between pen brands. So it's not so simple!   The smoothest nibs I've used have been by Sailor, ST Dupont, Namiki/Pilot, Omas and Stipula. The high-end models from Parker, Sheaffer, Visconti and Waterman also have very smooth nibs. In general, smooth nibs tend to be the rule with modern pens, rather than the exception. Vintage pens have more tooth, but a lot of people prefer them because the tooth reflects a more genuine fountain pen feel - in their opinion. I agree- my girlfriend's Pilot 78G is a Japanese F/Wester XF and is very smooth. It's easily as smooth as some of the medium nibs I have around. A well-made and properly shaped nib can be smooth at almost any width.   I will say though I've found indeed more tooth in my vintage nibs, especially some of the flex ones. It's a different feel and for a week or two you wonder what's going on. But as you get used to the difference, you come to be able to write with it just as well.

[Johnny Appleseed]

Actually, Medium and Broad nibs should generally be less smooth than fine or XF nibs. The finer the nib the smoother it should be.

 

Of course, we experience it somewhat the other way around, because the smaller surface that contacts the paper in a really fine nib tends to catch any tiny variation in the texture of the paper. They need to be smoother so that it won't catch as easily and it slides over the texture variations. With an XF or smaller sometimes you can't get it smooth enough for more textured papers.

 

With a medium or broad, it is easier to get the nib to slide over those variations. However, you have the issue of getting ink onto the entire surface of the nib. Ink does not flow easily over an extremely smooth metal surface, so if a medium or broad are too smooth they are more likely to skip or not ink completely. A slightly less smooth tip on a medium or broad will allow more ink to cover the tip and lubricate, creating a smoother feel.

 

There are some posts around here where Richard B. explains this better than I.

 

John

[J-san]

QUOTE (Johnny Appleseed @ Mar 1 2007, 01:50 PM)

Actually, Medium and Broad nibs should generally be less smooth than fine or XF nibs. The finer the nib the smoother it should be. Of course, we experience it somewhat the other way around, because the smaller surface that contacts the paper in a really fine nib tends to catch any tiny variation in the texture of the paper. They need to be smoother so that it won't catch as easily and it slides over the texture variations. With an XF or smaller sometimes you can't get it smooth enough for more textured papers. With a medium or broad, it is easier to get the nib to slide over those variations. However, you have the issue of getting ink onto the entire surface of the nib. Ink does not flow easily over an extremely smooth metal surface, so if a medium or broad are too smooth they are more likely to skip or not ink completely. A slightly less smooth tip on a medium or broad will allow more ink to cover the tip and lubricate, creating a smoother feel. There are some posts around here where Richard B. explains this better than I. John

That actually does make sense. When I was regrinding my Lamy 2000 XF nib to a XXF, I really had to watch the angles and use the micro-fine grits to smooth it out. If I try to write on the coarser papers, it will catch and gouge unless I am very careful.

[MYU]

I agree with Mark that it does seem in general, that smoothness would be directly related to the size of the nib. But I have experienced toothy broads and smooth fines. I guess it all comes down to the quality of the nib. I believe that it takes more effort to achieve a smooth fine nib versus a smooth broad nib of the same basic design.

 

Also, I'd venture to say that "smooth" needs to be qualified, perhaps the "sweet zone" between scratchy and slippery. By "slippery" I mean so little friction due to the nib shape and amount of ink being delivered that you need to exercise a lot of conscious control to get the pen to write the way you want it to (like driving a car on a sheet of ice).

 

My recent exposure to Nakaya pens opened my eyes quite a bit, despite my having pens with nibs ranging from XF to BB. I've never before written with such a beautifully smooth super flex fine nib--it gave just enough feedback for control while still making the motion nearly effortless.