Fountain Pens & Inks For Long-Term Journaling (50-75 Years)

[belyzel4]

Hello everyone! I have been using fountain pens for a few years now and I have spent more money on them in that timespan than I would like to admit. I love every pen that I own and writing with them gives me great joy. Soon, I am going to be switching over from my Pigma Micron’s (pigmented ink) to Fountain Pens (dye-based inks) for my journal writing. I will be entering medical school next year, so I especially want to be able to look back on these transformative years when I am older (~50-75 years later). I have always felt comfortable using my Pigma Micron’s for their long-term archiving qualities, but I cannot say I feel the same about my fountain pen inks. I have read many threads on FPN to get a good idea about archiving inks (Carbon > Iron Gall > Dyes), but I think I need a more personalized approach. I think the best way to discuss this would be by structuring my questions.

 

1) The current journal I am using is the Rhodia Webnotebook (90g Clairefontaine paper, acid free & pH neutral). Can I expect this journal to last for the next 50-75 years if kept safe from the elements?

 

2) Although I would like to keep my journals on the shelf, how important is it to have an acid-free storage container? I do plan to stay in Los Angeles for the rest of my life, so hopefully that gives a sense of the humidity & temperature conditions.

 

3) My three planned journaling inks so far are Aurora Black (pH ~ 4.35), 1:1 to 1:2 Kon Peki:Pilot Blue (pH ~ 8-8.5), and Pilot Blue-Black (pH ~ 8.5). I was hoping to use these for my journal writing because they perform excellent in my three favorite pens, are fairly water resistant, and look great. Can I expect these dye-based inks to last (legible and/or not faded) for the next 50-75 years in a journal (shelved or stored)?

 

4) Digital backups seem like a safe option as well. Would any of the inks mentioned above be able to last (legible and/or not faded) for at least the next 10-20 years, if not 50-75 years, to be digitized?

 

5) My last resort would be to use a Carbon Ink (Sailor or Platinum). My only concern with these kinds of inks is maintenance. Although I take great care of my fountain pens, I tend to alternate and sometimes leave unused ones inked for weeks at a time. Would I be able to leave one inked and unused for 1-2 weeks without any troubles?

[Korybas]

The only advise I have to give you is to use an Iron Gall ink, like ESSRI for example (take a look at Sandy1's excellent review here). It does not smudge and its bulletproof. Also, it darkens with time. Because of the Iron Gall content, your writing will last for more than 100 years and will not fade (so digital backup and scanning is easy)...

[Uncle Red]

If you dedicate one pen for journaling then it probably won't sit around unused for weeks. However the new Platinum slip seal caps may solve your problem.

The Platinum and Sailor Pigmented inks are nice. I like Iron Gall inks such as Diamine Registrar's Ink. Pelikan Font India is nice too but is less water resistant than the others.

 

There are examples of dye based inks surviving for over 100 years but I'd wouldn't count on any of them. The inks you list should last a lot more than 10-20 years though.

[Abner C. Kemp]

 

1) The current journal I am using is the Rhodia Webnotebook (90g Clairefontaine paper, acid free & pH neutral). Can I expect this journal to last for the next 50-75 years if kept safe from the elements?

 

2) Although I would like to keep my journals on the shelf, how important is it to have an acid-free storage container? I do plan to stay in Los Angeles for the rest of my life, so hopefully that gives a sense of the humidity & temperature conditions.

 

3) My three planned journaling inks so far are Aurora Black (pH ~ 4.35), 1:1 to 1:2 Kon Peki:Pilot Blue (pH ~ 8-8.5), and Pilot Blue-Black (pH ~ 8.5). I was hoping to use these for my journal writing because they perform excellent in my three favorite pens, are fairly water resistant, and look great. Can I expect these dye-based inks to last (legible and/or not faded) for the next 50-75 years in a journal (shelved or stored)?

 

4) Digital backups seem like a safe option as well. Would any of the inks mentioned above be able to last (legible and/or not faded) for at least the next 10-20 years, if not 50-75 years, to be digitized?

 

5) My last resort would be to use a Carbon Ink (Sailor or Platinum). My only concern with these kinds of inks is maintenance. Although I take great care of my fountain pens, I tend to alternate and sometimes leave unused ones inked for weeks at a time. Would I be able to leave one inked and unused for 1-2 weeks without any troubles?

 

1. Yes, any PH neutral paper is going to be your best bet for journaling.

2. Hopefully someone with a bit more scientific knowledge can chime in here. There's plenty of old documents written in IG inks that are still readable after hundreds of years that were not stored properly for most of their lifetime. But, I'm sure storing your journals properly will only help to make them last.

3. If you want your writing to last for years I would suggest using an iron gall ink. It is a method of permanency that has been used for generations and is tried and true.

4. If you take care of your journal and use the proper ink it shouldn't be a problem.

5. IG/Pigmented inks take more care. You will need to clean your pen more often and more thoroughly. I wouldn't make a habit out of leaving one of these inks in your pen for 1-2 weeks but if you do it's nothing some pen flush can't take care of.

 

Friendly Tip: Consider using a C/C pen when using an IG/Pigmented ink. You can use a bulb syringe to flush the nib and feed without having to draw and dump or take apart your entire pen. Plus, converters can be replaced if one gets gunked up.

 

Good luck!!

Edited March 16, 2014 by Abner C. Kemp

[KBeezie]

I thought that iron gall was not considered archival due toits acidity (even cold press is more acidic than say noodlers eternal/archival ink), and since there are a lot of water proof modern inks there wasn't much point in iron gall for the purpose of archiving it seemed.

[wlwilcox]

I would also look into Noodlers Kung Te-Cheng ink. This ink was used by the royal family in China for their documents. I use this ink for my journal and love the color. Look at the write up that Goulet Pen ( no affiliation) has on this ink. It is a bulletproof and archival ink. I think you could be pleasently surprised.

[carlos.q]

Check out Montblanc Permanent Blue and Permanent Black that are ISO 14145-2 certified as archival inks.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Every couple of years I go to a Museum exhibition here in Germany....and look at IG ink on parchment from 900-1000-1100 or the new stuff from 1300....real great handwriting. I don't know what they were using, but it was sepia brown....now.

It's a real good bureaucracy, that keeps official papers that long.

 

Very good paper is a must.

[Uncle Red]

I thought that iron gall was not considered archival due toits acidity (even cold press is more acidic than say noodlers eternal/archival ink), and since there are a lot of water proof modern inks there wasn't much point in iron gall for the purpose of archiving it seemed.

The whole acidity thing is overblown. Modern commercially made IG inks have balance acidity and use an acid that will evaporate when dry. Also, the acidity isn't the most serious issue, too much iron ions (if I remember correctly) are worse, Home made inks using imprecise instructions can lead to harmful inks.

[balson]

noodler's bulletproof black, the carbon suspension inks, and the iron gall inks are the ones that hold up the longest in lightfastness tests. the term is often misused but if something is described as archival it is supposed to last at least 100 years. iron gall inks have some issues with the ph but within the timeframe you want to preserve stuff for i would not worry about it. speaking very generally about historical colors, blues and blacks tend to hold up well and reds tend to fade much quicker.

 

as far as storing your journals the most important things to to consider are that you want to keep the journals dark and dry and insect free. light is the biggest enemy for the inks although i have had some inks fade even when stored in the dark. some people advocate storing journals in bags to help keep them dry and free of dust, i do not recommend this because you can inadvertently trap moisture that mold can feed off of. i have a couple of my moms sketchbooks from the late 60's. on a couple of them the first page has discolored slightly from the acids or oils in the notebook itself. this discoloration is minor and the paper is still perfectly legible. if you are really worried about any acids leaching out of the surrounding box a simple piece of ph neutral printer paper should be enough of a buffer to protect from any acids or oils from wood or leather.

 

at this moment in time digital backups are the least secure method of storing your journals and the time required to back them up would not justify their benefit. everything that you store needs to move or change format every 5-10 years. computers can crash causing a loss of data. "archival" cdr's become unreadable in as little as 2 years. websites for remote hosting of data occasionally lose that data. i also have my doubts about the longevity of those sites over the period you are interested in. a portable hard drive would be the best backup we have at the moment but i regularly run into files on mine becoming unreadable. if something goes wrong when you are transferring files, like the cord coming unplugged, you lose the file.

[wallylynn]

The only advise I have to give you is to use an Iron Gall ink, like ESSRI for example (take a look at Sandy1's excellent review here). It does not smudge and its bulletproof. Also, it darkens with time. Because of the Iron Gall content, your writing will last for more than 100 years and will not fade (so digital backup and scanning is easy)...

Robust yes, but IG is not bulletproof. UV and bleach can get rid of it easily.

 

I would also look into Noodlers Kung Te-Cheng ink. This ink was used by the royal family in China for their documents.

The same color was used. Noodler's is only about 10years old. Not used in ancient China.

 

Check out Montblanc Permanent Blue and Permanent Black that are ISO 14145-2 certified as archival inks.

Also check out DeAtrimentis Archival.

(Chesterfield Archival is just rebranded Diamine Registrars if you're looking at that too)

[Abner C. Kemp]

Check out Montblanc Permanent Blue and Permanent Black that are ISO 14145-2 certified as archival inks.

 

+1 Completely forgot these.

Every couple of years I go to a Museum exhibition here in Germany....and look at IG ink on parchment from 900-1000-1100 or the new stuff from 1300....real great handwriting. I don't know what they were using, but it was sepia brown....now.

It's a real good bureaucracy, that keeps official papers that long.

 

Very good paper is a must.

Yeah, that is my point. We can talk all day about how IG inks have too much acidity exc., but after looking at some seriously old documents that are still perfectly legible I've decided not to mess with something that works.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Abner C. Kemp

[belyzel4]

Thank you so much for all your responses everyone! To sum up what I have learned:

 

• Acid-free and pH neutral journals will last for my designated 50-75 year timespan.

• Journals should be stored in a dark, dry location.

• Dye-based inks should last more than 10-20 years, but may or may not last 50-75 years.

• Iron-Gall & Pigmented inks are the best solutions for archiving.

• Modern formulations of Iron-Gall inks are acidic solutions, but once they dry on the paper, the hydrochloric acid vaporizes into hydrogen chloride gas. This means that modern Iron-Gall inks shouldn't eat away the paper.

 

 

 

I think I will try Iron-Gall ink with a lower tier pen and see how it works out for me. I will just to update my maintenance schedule based on how the ink performs. I was planning on eventually getting around to Montblanc Midnight Blue, but I never really got a chance and now the formula has changed. I do have a few questions about Iron-Gall inks:

 

1) Would Iron-Gall inks be safe to put in my Caran d’Ache Ecridor (Rhodium-plated Steel Nib), Pilot Vanishing Point (Rhodium Nib), or Pelikan M805 (Two-Tone Gold Nib, Brass Internals)? I know there are some corrosions issues with Iron-Gall inks, so I just want to be safe. I may just stick to the C/C pens like Abner mentioned.

 

2) Based on what I have read around the forums, I believe Montblanc Midnight Blue was considered to be the lowest maintenance Iron-Gall ink. Now that the formula has changed, what Iron-Gall ink(s) is/are considered the lowest maintenance?

 

3) Are the new Montblanc Permanent Blue and Black inks Iron-Gall? I read through the ISO certification requirements, but none of the requirements refer to them as being long-lived inks. Does anyone have information on their capacity to last over 50 years?

 

4) How do Iron-Gall inks compare to Carbon Pigmented inks in terms of maintenance? Do either of these have irreversible effects if a maintenance schedule is accidentally overlooked?

 

5) Does maintenance get more complicated than DI water flushes once moving to these higher maintenance inks?

Edited March 17, 2014 by belyzel4

[KBeezie]

1) For modern IG with modern steel nibs, usually not an issue as long as you're making sure to clean out the pen every couple of months (and certainly as long as you make sure not to just let it sit there for over a month). "Two-Tone" isn't going to help with corrosion, that's just plating and the tip and underbelly is rarely plated.

 

As for the rest, I don't have much info to offer, but I know with #5 it shouldn't get any more complicated than that unless corrosion somehow set in.

 

I still think something like Noodler's Eternal/Bulletproof (actually rated for Archival, and protected against UV/Bleach, Laser, etc), is a 'safer' bet if one wanted to get downright nit-picky with it.

 

Also those older preserved IG documents, I noticed most of the ones we can attest today were generally protected from the outside world. Though outside exposure that's capable of ruining the paper itself will most likely ruin the ink because the ink has to hold onto 'something'.

Edited March 17, 2014 by KBeezie

[Bo Bo Olson]

ESSR is an ink to look at. There is an absolutely huge thread on it....It is rated as better than Diamine's Register ink.

Comes in a 110 ml bottle.

 

I'm not an IG freak, but I have a bottle and 1/3 of it (Odd that I should have 7 IG and BB inks...very odd ).

 

It's good ink with a long pedigree. Stevens ink was an old respected English ink, that got bought up by a conglomerate and sold for property value, some thirty or more years ago.

One of the managers then, managed to get one of the huge old wooden ink vats, and the formula of Steven's blue black ink in his settlement. Since then ESSR has been made as a small ink. Stevens made some other real nice inks.....to bad he didn't get the whole batch of colors too.

 

Now that I finally got a scanner...some day with in the next few months, I need to scan in the 47 paper, 17 pen of this and that width and flex test I did of that ink. The pictures were not good. They have vanished over the last couple of years.

 

R&K IG inks should be nice too, they don't dry black, one being a purple, the other a blue.

[lynxcat]

the modern-day "bulletproof" inks, including Noodler's, will probably do what you want --- but since they haven't been around long enough to test, we can't know that. good, modern IG inks with moderate acidity should be pretty much guaranteed to last that long, since they've already been put to that test and passed. i also agree that using high-quality acid-free paper is a must, and may be a bigger factor than the ink. dry, dark storage would certainly help too; if you can archive journals away for the longer term storage in some sort of airtight box with some humidity absorbers (those silica gel packs, maybe?) in them, that would likely be a good idea.

[Sandy1]

Thank you so much for all your responses everyone! To sum up what I have learned:

 

• Acid-free and pH neutral journals will last for my designated 50-75 year timespan.

• Journals should be stored in a dark, dry location.

• Dye-based inks should last more than 10-20 years, but may or may not last 50-75 years.

• Iron-Gall & Pigmented inks are the best solutions for archiving.

• Modern formulations of Iron-Gall inks are acidic solutions, but once they dry on the paper, the hydrochloric acid vaporizes into hydrogen chloride gas. This means that modern Iron-Gall inks shouldn't eat away the paper.

 

 

 

I think I will try Iron-Gall ink with a lower tier pen and see how it works out for me. I will just to update my maintenance schedule based on how the ink performs. I was planning on eventually getting around to Montblanc Midnight Blue, but I never really got a chance and now the formula has changed. I do have a few questions about Iron-Gall inks:

 

1) Would Iron-Gall inks be safe to put in my Caran d’Ache Ecridor (Rhodium-plated Steel Nib), Pilot Vanishing Point (Rhodium Nib), or Pelikan M805 (Two-Tone Gold Nib, Brass Internals)? I know there are some corrosions issues with Iron-Gall inks, so I just want to be safe. I may just stick to the C/C pens like Abner mentioned.

 

2) Based on what I have read around the forums, I believe Montblanc Midnight Blue was considered to be the lowest maintenance Iron-Gall ink. Now that the formula has changed, what Iron-Gall ink(s) is/are considered the lowest maintenance?

 

3) Are the new Montblanc Permanent Blue and Black inks Iron-Gall? I read through the ISO certification requirements, but none of the requirements refer to them as being long-lived inks. Does anyone have information on their capacity to last over 50 years?

 

4) How do Iron-Gall inks compare to Carbon Pigmented inks in terms of maintenance? Do either of these have irreversible effects if a maintenance schedule is accidentally overlooked?

 

5) Does maintenance get more complicated than DI water flushes once moving to these higher maintenance inks?

 

Hi,

 

It seems you're making sound choices even before setting out on your adventure.

 

A1: I'd hesitate to use acidic inks extensively in the Cd'A Ecridor due to the metallic section. The well-regarded Richard Binder mentioned that the plating on some pens is iffy, and if that plating is compromised, the acids can attack the base metal underneath. (I use a rotring 600 with IG ink when in the field - it shows less damage than I.) My musings on that concern are @ Post № 33 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/208379-montblanc-blue-black/?p=2470476

 

A2: Perhaps the inks from R&K, but I'd be equally vigilant with all.

 

A3: No. As for longevity, you'd have to read the ISO spec.

 

A4: From my experience, pens with dried-out IG ink can be readily recovered. My experience recovering a friend's Pelikan M400 that had dried-out with Sailor nano ink lead me to believe repair/restoration due to being slack with nano inks is not out of the question. viz Post № 7 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/247577-removing-dry-ink-from-pelikan-800/?p=2702656

 

A5: I used IG & nano inks for years without a problem, cleaning with nothing but tap water. (I was blissfully unaware that FP cleaning solutions existed.) But I am not one to let ink linger in an unused pen. When I learned that a 0.5% acetic acid solution would remove IG ink residue, I gave my MB149 & rotring 600 a soak & flush with acetic acid. Even after years of pairing with IG inks, and using only with water for cleansing, the acid wash come out clear.

 

Also, I suggest leaving 2cm margins on your journal pages, which will protect what's written in a tightly closed journal from most water damage, and still accommodate tiny marginalia; and to store in food-grade waterproof containers. Should you accumulate a passel of valuable works, you might consider a Pelican-Hardigg case for storage.

 

Bye,

S1

[Ernst Bitterman]

I have journals from the early 1990s written with uncomplicated Quink black which are unfaded (unlike the month of ballpoints from a brief interregnum at the start of the century; that goop is fading), nor has the ink begun to chew holes in the not-particularly-archival paper. The journal is stored on an open shelf in an intermittently damp basement.

 

I also have a paybook belonging to my wife's grandfather, detailing his armed service in the early 1940s; the paper is somewhat foxed in places, but none of the notes have faded. The blue-black which predominates is unsurprising in its longevity, but some of his officers used green (of a tone very like the basic green offered by Waterman, Pelikan or Lamy today) and one used a violet. The last note was his discharge due to injury in 1944.

 

SO-- I would think that your paper and ink choices are good; I might suggest Herbin Perle Noire as another good black for durability, but that's just as a back-up. I personally find Noodler's eternal/bulletproof formulas painfully dry to write with; don't discount them, but ponder before committing. IG inks tend to be somewhat extreme in pH, but there's plenty of stuff extant today written with similar stuff on marginal papers, so they're also worth considering (Diamine also offers some good stuff, but somewhat pen-maintenance-intensive).

 

In LA, I would think fire and earthquake would be greater threats than dampness, so I wouldn't worry about storage on a shelf. I would also hesitate about the lifetime durability of the plated steel point-- my Waterman from the 1990s has some pitting in it; if I were still relying on it as a daily user, I suspect it wouldn't last much longer. The Pelikan strikes me as having the longest legs of the pens mentioned, based on experience with vintage pens; the steel point of the one and the fiddly mechanism of the other are apt to give out before you do. There's some concern about the collar on the Pelikan's point, but you can lay in a spare sometime and make sure of things.

[Opooh]

Staying alive and keep the brain intact. That will be the most important issue if you want to read your journals in 75 years.

[Blueorb]

I was just thinking that you have a very optimistic outlook on how your life will unfold! It has a certain naive charm, I like it!

 

As Opooh said.........................

 

Good luck with medical school.