Hero's Safari Clone

[Flounder]

The Wancher 807. It's just not for me, though - so austere and gloomy! There's enough of that about already.

[Sailor Kenshin]

The Wancher 807. It's just not for me, though - so austere and gloomy! There's enough of that about already.

Thanks. I'll have to take a look at it!

[Seele]

It might have been touched upon, but the people who commissioned Hero to build this thing are based in China, aiming to sell within a sales network (Taobao) which caters for a Chinese clientele. Being somewhat conversant in the Chinese language I also hang out at China-based pen forums, and noticed that the Safari is the pen many Chinese people aspire to: not only it is the least costly, fully-imported new pen, its appearance is so distinctive that others can see it from across the road. Getting seen to have bought a Safari is the important thing here, and that is the motive for the production of this thing.

 

Outside that country the whole social situation is different, so our view of it would be very out of its original context.

[lreiley]

Anyone know of an ebay seller who is selling these clones? I don't know how this Taobao thing works, and tonight I'm too lazy to figure it out.

[joshsrn]

China does not recognize international patents. Fair game in China.

[kauloltran]

China does not recognize international patents. Fair game in China.

 

 

China does have laws against the infringement of intellectual properties. Like many have pointed out, the Lamy patents have expired a long time ago. In another viewpoint, the retail prices of Lamy pens may be too expensive for most Chinese. European import goods are generally a lot more expensive in China, so the $27 cheap Lamy that you see here is not so cheap in China. Hero may have commissioned these clones with the intention of making the Lamy Safari type of pens available to all Chinese school students who can't afford to buy the real Lamys. What seems cheap to us here may be considered luxuries in other parts of the world.

 

 

Outside that country the whole social situation is different, so our view of it would be very out of its original context.

 

 

Right, this is the point I am trying to make.

Edited September 10, 2013 by kauloltran

[wieniawski]

 

 

China does have laws against the infringement of intellectual properties. Like many have pointed out, the Lamy patents have expired a long time ago. In another viewpoint, the retail prices of Lamy pens may be too expensive for most Chinese. European import goods are generally a lot more expensive in China, so the $27 cheap Lamy that you see here is not so cheap in China. Hero may have commissioned these clones with the intention of making the Lamy Safari type of pens available to all Chinese school students who can't afford to buy the real Lamys. What seems cheap to us here may be considered luxuries in other parts of the world.

 

 

 

 

Right, this is the point I am trying to make.

After some eavesdropping at penbbs, I think I got some inside scoop. First, the clones are made by Lishui branch in Zhejiang ((They are separate entities but Lishui is authorized to manufacture and sell products under the brand name so Hero would take responsibility for everything Lishui does) without the Shanghai Hero company knowing. The company who commissioned the Lishui branch to clone the pen was actually a seller of legitimate (parallel import) Lamy pens. They were selling really well since their price is comparable to the European retail) before it got sued.

 

The problem was that there is already a so-called official distributor of Lamy pens in China, and they usually market it (even the cheaper Safari line) as high end pens and sell them at counters for around 60USD a piece. The distributor got jealous at how well the parallel imports are selling on Taobao, they decided to sue the biggest one (aforementioned Taobao/T-mall store). Things get ridiculous (consider it was a distributor, not even a Lamy's Chinese representative) when the court ruled that the Taobao seller lost and ordered them to pay 170,000RMB in damage. So at the end, the seller just went "Well, since you don't want us to sell Lamy pen, we will sell Hero pens instead!"

[Harlequin]

I think someone posted that earlier in this thread...

[Inkstone]

After some eavesdropping at penbbs, I think I got some inside scoop. First, the clones are made by Lishui branch in Zhejiang ((They are separate entities but Lishui is authorized to manufacture and sell products under the brand name so Hero would take responsibility for everything Lishui does) without the Shanghai Hero company knowing. The company who commissioned the Lishui branch to clone the pen was actually a seller of legitimate (parallel import) Lamy pens. They were selling really well since their price is comparable to the European retail) before it got sued.

 

The problem was that there is already a so-called official distributor of Lamy pens in China, and they usually market it (even the cheaper Safari line) as high end pens and sell them at counters for around 60USD a piece. The distributor got jealous at how well the parallel imports are selling on Taobao, they decided to sue the biggest one (aforementioned Taobao/T-mall store). Things get ridiculous (consider it was a distributor, not even a Lamy's Chinese representative) when the court ruled that the Taobao seller lost and ordered them to pay 170,000RMB in damage. So at the end, the seller just went "Well, since you don't want us to sell Lamy pen, we will sell Hero pens instead!"

 

60USD for a Safari? If the price is not caused by high tax rate, it is definitely caused by greed.

[Sailor Kenshin]

60USD for a Safari? If the price is not caused by high tax rate, it is definitely caused by greed.

Define 'greed.'

[pencils+pens]

Define 'greed.'

 

"Greed is good."

Gordon Gekko

[Flounder]

You know what I'm surprised Hero hasn't had a bash at? A premium Murex clone. They could easily knock one out with minimal tooling changes to the 850. Make the proportions more "pocket pen" style, uprate the cap retension system, and Robert's your father's brother.

[Harlequin]

I'd heard that the Mieux is actually produced by a subsidiary of Hero. No idea if that is correct.

[iamchum]

huh hrmm well I'll be damned.

One of the best designed modern pens gets copied...

I know for a fact that LAMY has a chinese distributor... Clearly they are in breach of their contract in not enforcing IP rights (unless their contract, for some unknown reason, didnt have a clause regarding protection of intellectual property). But then again, Hero does get patted on the head by the Chinese govt.

 

Ahhhh, the wonders of the Chinese market. Causing innovators to face palm since Deng Xiaoping.

 

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1632/7dvf.jpg

[Seele]

 

60USD for a Safari? If the price is not caused by high tax rate, it is definitely caused by greed.

 

The Safari retails in Australia at A$50 and that does not include the converter.

[iamchum]

 

The Safari retails in Australia at A$50 and that does not include the converter.

At best you can get it for AU$40, but yeah... it's expensive if you're and everyday person who doesn't think the median price of an FP is over $100 (not me)

[Inkstone]

 

The Safari retails in Australia at A$50 and that does not include the converter.

 

The average price for the safari on amazon.com is around 24USD. If the difference between amazon price and the retails in Australia caused by higher tax rate in Australia, when people pay $50 for the Safari, they contribute money to local education, public transportation and so on. If the tax rate is not that high, I can't find any reason for such high price except greed. Greed is not bad thing but must be limited legally and naturally.

[Sailor Kenshin]

The definition of 'greed' unfortunately has come to mean anyone who earns five bucks more than you do.

[Harlequin]

Yes, imo greed can be that simple, it all depends on what person A is getting to know if "five bucks more" is greed. Merriam-Webster says greed is:

 

a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed

 

So if someone, for example, charges fully double the retail price elsewhere and excuses it by blaming the market, that is greed too. Even more-so the vendor who charges "just" $5 more. Covering excessive taxes or import fees is different, but we don't actually know if that is the case here. My two cents, anyway.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Yes, imo greed can be that simple, it all depends on what person A is getting to know if "five bucks more" is greed. Merriam-Webster says greed is:

 

a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed

 

So if someone, for example, charges fully double the retail price elsewhere and excuses it by blaming the market, that is greed too. Even more-so the vendor who charges "just" $5 more. Covering excessive taxes or import fees is different, but we don't actually know if that is the case here. My two cents, anyway.

I hear you. but the trouble with that view is it's always someone else who arbitrarily gets to decide how much you can have, all too often at gunpoint.

 

None of us have any idea what Chinese retail chain for the Safari looks like...how much of the end price is reflected by high transportation costs, labor costs, import fees, store rents, re-stock fees, or whatever else may be.

 

Something to consider before people toss in the 'greed' card.