What Makes Some Inks Bleed Through?

[amberleadavis]

So, here in the office, collectively, we have several TWSBI - 540s with Broad nibs - on the same paper, using those pens, certain inks bleed through and other do not. For example, my Noodler's polar green has bled through almost every type of paper I've used, but (except when I failed to tighten the back of the TWSBI), Noodler's Luxury Blue has never bled through to the back of the page.

 

Now, I understand that certain papers are more likely to bleed through - and I count these in the unacceptable category. Certain papers are more likely to be vibrant / water resistent whatever.

 

What I'm asking is all things being equal, what features make one ink more likely to show up on the other side of the paper? Color? Thickness? Viscosity? Brand?

 

Any thoughts?

[wastelanded]

I may be wrong, but maybe it's the amount of dye in the ink, ie. the intensity?

[Axial]

There are many additives that modify the surface tension and viscosity of the ink, making it more or less prone to soaking through a particular type of paper (different pH can have effect, too, depending on the type of paper - everything else being the same, acidic inks tend to bleed less than neutral ones). There is often a compromise between e.g. bleedthrough/feathering and drying time (less bleedthrough/feathering often means ink does not get absorbed by the paper so it takes longer to dry) so different inks will suit different purposes.

[amberleadavis]

Hmm.......

[Ghost Plane]

Some inks, like Herbin and Waterman, are very water soluble. They give up the intensity of color and thus staining/soaking for the "safety" factor. Both are made from older formulations of ink than the more modern high-intensity colors. The more chemically intense saturated colors are relatively new in the historical sense, which is why the late 1800s saw such garish color combinations in clothing dyes and paint as people flaunted the new colors available with the advent of "modern" chemistry.

 

Nathan and his Noodlers are cutting edge inks in the sense that he is constantly tinkering with the outer envelope of what is possible in fountain pen inks. Hence the advent of some inks requiring their own dedicated pens such as Kung Te Chung. Yet he also approaches paper issues with his blacks designed for newsprint or the "bullet proof" inks for paper where people are worried about liquid spills wiping out their work.

 

Companies who flaunt their business usage, such as Montblanc, tailor their dryer feeling inks to work on a broad range of cheap office papers to permit wider usage of their pens. If I'm uncertain of the paper I'll be using, I take Montblanc or Waterman with me.

 

Others are tailored for performance and maintenance, assuming you'll select appropriate paper. The Iroshizuku line is an example. Wonderful qualities that make them worth the price for those of us not willing to risk a $1k + pen with an experimental ink.

 

All is part of the artistry of the pen. Knowing the use, then selecting the tool and medium to suit it.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Ghost Plane

[amberleadavis]

I am just surprised that my Noodler's Polar Black and Polar Blue do not bleed through, but Polar Green does.

 

Though I admit to being a fan of the artistry of different inks - I love how some wash, move or change with water. However, the more of the fade experiments that I do, the more particular I become about fading.

[Axial]

I am just surprised that my Noodler's Polar Black and Polar Blue do not bleed through, but Polar Green does.

 

That is interesting - the chap over at peninkcillin (http://peninkcillin.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/noodlers-polar-blue-ink-review.html) has reviewed several Polar inks, and he reports that all of them bleed quite badly on cheaper paper. "Polar" inks are formulated to be resistant to low temperatures. An anti-freezing additive such as glycerol could be the cause of bleeding...

[amberleadavis]

I am just surprised that my Noodler's Polar Black and Polar Blue do not bleed through, but Polar Green does.

 

That is interesting - the chap over at peninkcillin (http://peninkcillin....ink-review.html) has reviewed several Polar inks, and he reports that all of them bleed quite badly on cheaper paper. "Polar" inks are formulated to be resistant to low temperatures. An anti-freezing additive such as glycerol could be the cause of bleeding...

 

Hmm.... that sounds right -- glycerine, glycerol one of those additives.

And you can laugh, but I got rid of all the cheap paper in my office. I decided that I love the ink colors too much to worry about the bleed through of cheap paper. Though I must say that my very favorite paper is the coffee leaf. Great stuff!

[doggonecarl]

Very informative post. I've encountered the same issue with my recent purchase of Polar Brown--terrible feathering on all kinds of paper, with even the finest nibs. Paper sucks up the ink like Bounty paper towels suck up a spill.

 

I bought it for its permanence. It looks like it is going to sit permanently on my shelf...unused.

[silverlifter]

Fiona123 please stop posting your spam links here. Reported (again).

[Dimy]

On 9/14/2012 at 9:16 AM, amberleadavis said:

What I'm asking is all things being equal, what features make one ink more likely to show up on the other side of the paper? Color? Thickness? Viscosity? Brand?

 

Any thoughts?

As many have already pointed and nicely covered the dye aspect and inks nature, which plays a very major part in will ink bleed or feather, I will say that paper has same role to play.

 

The inks type matters too, for example  ink like R&K Sallix works on all papers without showing any signs of bleed and as we know IG generally work well on most papers. I also find pigment inks to work OK in many cases with platinum and sailor pigment inks (only once I ever tried and used) showing same bleed as iroshizuku  shin-kai on all papers. Dye component are nicely explained and are more informed then humble me so no comments.

 

On paper front, I feel all of above have role to play in how the ink will behave on the papers. The main ones I feel most responsible for bleed are Thickness and absorbent nature of papers. Thickness is like brute forcing things, you can brute force anything, same for paper, make it thick enough and even worst recycled black paper wont bleed. Its when they are made thin when complexity arises (Tomoe river being classic example of being thin and light yet no bleed on most inks). GSM is here to play.

 

Second being absorbent, well if inks not gonna be able to enter the paper fibers then no way will its gonna penetrate the page so no bleed, well this is theory and all papers will have some sort of penetration. Tomoe river for instance show good resistant to absorbing and thus show all the sheen that they are known for, while newspapers (here in India at least) will absorb inks like a sponge and show the colour right past it. Well I think absorbent nature is personal choice, won't go in details or it would go on forever.

 

Viscosity, not my area but why not, more viscous the page, better its gonna resist the ink, I think. Nature of ink should matter here a lot.

 

Other thing which I think precedes over viscosity or brand is the way paper is manufactured, this is also what really accounts for 'brand' that we consider, not name but manufacturing process, I mean why is all office papers irrespective of brands perform same or mostly same if all specs are same, why does newspapers show consistency in being (bleep) of a paper. Why did tomoe river's paper change cause an uproar in community as being different from before and people claiming they feel change, some very clearly (no idea how much it changed as I have not tried it yet).

This is where manufacturing methods come in place and I think its this method that actually define the brand paper over the brand name, obvious thing when one thinks about it.

I know few methods like double rollers and such which will alter the nature of paper produced. Also source of pulp matters too, all comprised in manufacturing of paper. Many brands go to great length to preserve the secret behind their manufacturing techniques especially the non standard stuff after all this is what makes them what they are.

 

Now colour is really subjective and requires more detail testings in real time, I am really not the person for this task of many paper buying and testing. I think there might me some co-relation here, mainly due to dye of inks and thing and methods used in colouring the papers, but who knows. Personally I don't see much appreciable difference, but then too less of inks and paper with me (most of my papers are white so thats also issue).

 

It got long well hope it was useful.

Regards,

Dimy.

[SamCapote]

This property is due solely to the presence of gremlins, which we all know are ubiquitous, yet idiosyncratic, quixotic, and prone to anti-establishment protocols.