Broke The Pink Sealant On My 146 Section

[Paul Raposo]

Hey all.

 

This week I've been flushing out all my pens to put them away for long term storage. I decided to lube up the pistons in my sticky 149, and 146. The friction fit piston 149 went great; I unscrewed the nib/feed/collar, added a light smear of silicone grease to the inside of the barrel, and the collar threads, and closed her back up.

 

The 146, however, threw me. I thought I was unscrewing the nib/feed/collar, but I unscrewed the section. I absolutely did not know this was a two piece barrel. Now the pink sealant is out, and I don't know what to use to seal it again, nor how to close it up again.

 

I have 100% pure silicone grease, and Ron Zorn's section sealant. Which can I, or rather, should I use? Also, do I just screw the section back on? There appears to be 4 tabs on the inside of the section, that correspond with 4 slots on the barrel. Do I just screw down until the section stops, and these tabs, and slots match up?

 

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6852/mb146001.jpg

 

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2949/mb146003.jpg

 

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8296/mb146002.jpg

Edited July 19, 2012 by Paul Raposo

[leod]

not sure about the other sealant but good thing nothing is broken. at least you can clean up the insides while its still seperated

[Paul Raposo]

not sure about the other sealant but good thing nothing is broken. at least you can clean up the insides while its still seperated

 

Hi leod.

 

Is it common for these to break when they're unscrewing? I thought I had broken it, until I realized it was a two piece barrel.

[CS388]

That's my exact pen, Paul.

 

Can't give you any advice, as you've already gone deeper than I've gone. Excellent work.

 

Following with interest and fingers crossed and an open mind.

 

Best. CS

[Paul Raposo]

That's my exact pen, Paul.

Can't give you any advice, as you've already gone deeper than I've gone. Excellent work.

Following with interest and fingers crossed and an open mind.

Best. CS

 

Thanks for the vote on confidence, CS I think you have more confidence in me, than I do myself.

 

I found Hari's photos and instructions for removing the nib carrier from modern 146's, but I'm not sure if that applies to this one:

 

Taking apart a 146 nib assy

 

I'm afraid to move on it until I get some experienced advice.

[karmakoda]

Also watching with great interest, having three of these. My own repair efforts have mostly been with less complex pens.

 

The 4 tabs in the section and slots on the barrel have me confused. That looks like a push on fit, locking the section in place. The feed/nib assembly should thread independently out of the section when the section is on the barrel.

I would presume that the feed must be removed from the section before sealant can be applied and the pen reassembled.

Great photos, nice clean work.

Hope the experts are not on holiday.

Edited July 19, 2012 by karmakoda

[framebaer]

can't get the pink stuff -- that's montblanc proprietary.

 

I would use ron's sealant.

[Paul Raposo]

Also watching with great interest, having three of these. My own repair efforts have mostly been with less complex pens.

 

The 4 tabs in the section and slots on the barrel have me confused. That looks like a push on fit, locking the section in place. The feed/nib assembly should thread independently out of the section when the section is on the barrel.

I would presume that the feed must be removed from the section before sealant can be applied and the pen reassembled.

Great photos, nice clean work.

Hope the experts are not on holiday.

 

Thank you, karmakoda

 

The 4 tabs inside the section slip into the slots on the outside of the barrel. These appear to lock the section, but it is loose. Not until the nib assembly is screwed down, does the section actually "lock" in place--essentially held by pressure between the nib carrier, and barrel. Also, I think these tabs/slots are suppose to brace the section when unscrewing the nib assembly, but it didn't work like that for me.

 

The threaded portion on the nib carrier is what locks the section in place, by screwing inside of the barrel.

 

if any of that makes sense :hmm1:

Edited July 19, 2012 by Paul Raposo

[Paul Raposo]

can't get the pink stuff -- that's montblanc proprietary.

I would use ron's sealant.

 

Hi, framebaer.

 

Yeah, I've read that the "pink stuff" is a double-super-secret blend known only to Montblanc.

 

Ron's sealant appears to be my only option now.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Paul Raposo

[Paul Raposo]

Well, looking at Hari's pics, I realized I had to press out the nib carrier. So I got a punch from my staking set, and pressed it out:

 

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2830/mb146004.jpg

 

That pink stuff is not sticky, but it does act like an adhesive. It's feels like rubber. It looks like it's poured in just before the nib carrier is screwed down:

 

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9403/mb146005.jpg

 

Here's the inside of the empty section:

 

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3676/mb146007.jpg

 

I'm disappointed with myself because I left a couple of scars on the slots of the feed while using my tool trying to unscrew it. They're not painfully obvious, but I see them, and I'm angry with myself for making them. What was once a mint pen, now has two glaring flaws, the lack of pink sealant, and the scars.

 

And to think--I thought unscrewing the piston would to too difficult to lube the piston lip. Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Paul Raposo

[Ron Z]

I did some research into this a while back. It needs to be a chemical cure, and not an air cure. In discussions with technical/support people we concluded that it is NOT a silicone RTV compound. RTV acts more like an adhesive and will not release. I have some ideas, but haven't had a chance test them yet. What I think it is will not be at all practical or cost effective for the average individual to use.

 

In the mean time, you do not want to use silicone grease. Use the rosin based thread sealant. Put the section in position on the barrel, apply sealant to the threads then screw the nib assembly in, tightening it with a spanner. Do not over tighten! You can easily break the collar if you do.

 

I suspect that the reason for doing it this way is that they use the same barrel for both the fountain pen and RB - using different pieces on the back (no piston) and the cone.

[karmakoda]

Hi Paul

You are obviously a meticulous technician, so go easy on yourself.

I did the same thing and carefully hand filed the marks away with an extra fine jewelers' file, lightly buffed with micro-mesh abrasive, 3600 grade. Probably only noticeable to me.

So only the pink sealant is missing. What is the material that Eric Niksch uses? He's about the best authority, but currently on hiatus. I'm sure it is mentioned in one of the pinned topics at the top of this Forum.

Superb photos, this may become a tutorial for those of us not ready to venture into this territory. Thank you.

[Paul Raposo]

I did some research into this a while back. It needs to be a chemical cure, and not an air cure. In discussions with technical/support people we concluded that it is NOT a silicone RTV compound. RTV acts more like an adhesive and will not release. I have some ideas, but haven't had a chance test them yet. What I think it is will not be at all practical or cost effective for the average individual to use.

 

In the mean time, you do not want to use silicone grease. Use the rosin based thread sealant. Put the section in position on the barrel, apply sealant to the threads then screw the nib assembly in, tightening it with a spanner. Do not over tighten! You can easily break the collar if you do.

 

I suspect that the reason for doing it this way is that they use the same barrel for both the fountain pen and RB - using different pieces on the back (no piston) and the cone.

 

Hi, Ron. Thank you for jumping in :clap1:

 

So I'm not going to apply any sealant to body of the nib carrier? The pink stuff was up near the top of the carrier, so I assumed the sealant would also have to coat the entire carrier body, and the threads.

 

The reason I thought this is because the carrier does not sit flush on top of the barrel, but there is about a 2/10 centimeter gap, which was filled in by the pink sealant.

[Paul Raposo]

Hi Paul

You are obviously a meticulous technician, so go easy on yourself.

I did the same thing and carefully hand filed the marks away with an extra fine jewelers' file, lightly buffed with micro-mesh abrasive, 3600 grade. Probably only noticeable to me.

So only the pink sealant is missing. What is the material that Eric Niksch uses? He's about the best authority, but currently on hiatus. I'm sure it is mentioned in one of the pinned topics at the top of this Forum.

Superb photos, this may become a tutorial for those of us not ready to venture into this territory. Thank you.

 

I really appreciate your kind words, karmakoda. Thank you :clap1:

 

I consider myself lucky that I didn't do any damage to the nib. And thanks for your instructions about covering the marks. I don't have micro-mesh, but I know where to buy some. When I get the pen all assembled, and tested, I'll have to do some cosmetic surgery.

 

Edited to add: In Hari's post about disassembling the newer 146, Eric wrote this:

 

Using section sealant from Tryphon or Pendemonium or an equivalent product is the way to go if the nib assembly must be removed from a pen.

 

Taking apart a 146 nib assy

 

I've had luck with Ron's sealant, so will give that a try.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Paul Raposo

[karmakoda]

Thanks Paul, I'm feeling more brave about trying this again if necessary.

Great Post.

[Paul Raposo]

Well, I threw caution to the wind and sealed up the pen.

 

First off I want to say to Ron; Please don't think that I dismissed your instructions here. I value your opinion highly, and the advice you've given me has never steered me wrong.

 

After doing some checking, I found these pictures in Hari's 146 thread, that Multiechelon had posted of his 149 demonstrator homage. It showed a pink sealant covering the outside of the nib carrier:

 

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/multiechelon/149Demonstrator/149Demonstrator_04.jpg

 

So I decided to cover the upper 2/3 of the threads on my pen, with sealant, as well as the lower 2/3 of the nib carrier wall:

 

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1092/mb146005a.jpg

 

As I screwed down the nib carrier, sealant squeezed out between the section top, and the carrier lip. I wiped this off with Naphtha. I decided to screw the nib carrier in by hand, because I felt I could have more control on the torque this way, without a tool in the way between me and the "feel" of the carrier being seated.

 

After I cleaned up the pen, I shined a light into the ink window, and using a loupe, checked to see if the bottom of the feed was clear of sealant, and it is.

 

I'm letting the sealant cure for about 30 minutes, and will fill the pen. I'm not sure if a leak is present, how long it will take to present itself. But I've used Ron's sealant on several pens, and I haven't had a leak with any of those.

[Paul Raposo]

Hey all.

 

I just thought I should note that I got second thoughts about having sealant on the nib carrier wall, so last night I disassembled the pen, and used naphtha to clean it off the carrier wall, section interior wall, and the carrier threads. I applied fresh sealant to the upper 3/4 of the carrier threads, like Ron instructed me to.

 

When I screwed the nib carrier back in, it was a firm tight seal without any play in the section.

 

I inked the pen last night, left it on its side overnight, and the cap, and section were dry this morning. I'll carry it today and report back tonight if I get any inky fingers.

 

I want to thank leod, CS, karmakoda, framebaer, and Ron for all your help; plus the extra advice I got offline from a FPN member for helping me get this 146 sorted out. I hope my mistake can help someone out in the future

 

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1066/mb146005b.jpg

Edited July 20, 2012 by Paul Raposo

[hari317]

Hi Paul, I saw this thread only now. I think you have solved the problem. Good Luck!

 

BTW what was the reason for disassembly? was it leaking from the front?

 

Hari

[Paul Raposo]

Hi Paul, I saw this thread only now. I think you have solved the problem. Good Luck!

BTW what was the reason for disassembly? was it leaking from the front?

Hari

 

Thank you very much, Hari Your 146 thread was very helpful working on this.

 

I started to take it apart because the piston was very tight, and I didn't want to put it away like that because I was worried it would seize up. I wanted to lube the piston from the front, only to find out this is a two piece barrel.

[hari317]

Dear Paul, if the piston is tight, better to take the filler apart, it is so easy. You already know how to do it. This way you will not disturb other joints unnecessarily.

 

Best

hari