Waterman Charleston, Carene Or Parker Premier

[ajitk]

I am looking for a fountain pen to use on a daily basis. I have been using a Hero 332 for the longest time with no regrets. Unfortunately, I dropped the pen and it doesn't write well anymore.

 

The Hero sells for a dollar, so dropping one doesn't bother me that much. However, I would be much more depressed if I drop an expensive pen.

 

I purchased a Lamy Al-Star a few years ago but was disappointed with it. It didn't write well on most of the paper that I used. The Parker Vector was better but only marginally. Neither wrote as well as the Hero.

 

However, I want a really smooth pen which doesn't have issues like restrictive writing angles or specific paper types. I have been told that a gold nib will do the trick.

 

I've been researching various pens, and it looks like the following pens fit my requirements and are within my budget (around $200):

 

Waterman Charleston

Waterman Carene

Parker Premier

 

I am looking at black with gold trim, fine point.

 

The Parker Premier seems a bit on the flashy side. Rumor has it that Parker may be using Waterman nibs. But reviews consistently say that it writes well.

 

The Carene also has rave reviews. Some say the nib is firm. And the look will take some getting used to.

 

The Charleston seems to have mixed reviews. Most are positive, but some say that it is moody, i.e., writes well on most occasions but is sometimes toothy. Looks wise, it has an understated elegance to it.

 

I was originally leaning towards the Charleston, but now I am not sure.

 

Please share your thoughts and recommendations, including if I should consider something else.

 

Also, do the fine nibs draw similarly thick lines on the three?

 

Thanks.

[hari317]

Ajit, are you in India?

 

Of the three above, you can very good prices much lesser than 10,000/- on the Charleston or Carene if you are in Mumbai and know where to look. Of the three, my recommendation is the Carene.

 

However for a 10,000INR pen, I would recommend a Japanese pen like Pilot Custom 742 or Heritage 912.

 

Best

Hari

[robofkent]

I don't have experience with the Parker Premier or the Waterman Charleston but can recommend the Carene as I recently purchased one with a M nib and it is very smooth!

[Ghost Plane]

Carene! Tough enough that I've deployed with them. Reliable enough that I took one on Pilgrimage with a package of cartridges when I knew I'd be reading my journal for years to come. Flexible in that you can buy alternate nib sections in different sizes, using the same pen body with different size nibs.

 

I had a Carene and sold it. The decorative band hit my hand uncomfortably and it felt really light and cheap compared to the Carene.

 

No experience with the 3rd choice.

[Aysedasi]

I've owned both Carene and Charleston and both are lovely pens. Right now, if I had the cash and had to buy one of those two, I'd probably buy a Carene.

[luka505]

My vote goes for the Carene - though you can consider me biased as I have three of them Two have medium nibs and one came with a fine nib. They are all excellent writers, start right away and don't skip. My pens get used as primary pens for about 70% of the time and am very satisfied with the overall performance and reliability. I once had a leaking cartridge but the pen itself did not leak and only realized what happened when I opened it to check how much ink is left - you can imagine the surprise of having my hands all stained when I unscrewed the pen The only issue I came across with this pen is that the front and tail part were misaligned. However, this can be fixed easily. You can see more here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/63231-waterman-carene/page__p__654577#entry654577

 

My initial choice was also between Carene and a Charleston. As you probably know, Carene has a metallic body whereas Charleston has a plastic one. Metallic body simply felt better in my hand and it weight was ok, so this was a large plus towards the Carene. You can try to check this thread on the choice between Carene and Charleston: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/175752-carene-vs-charleston/page__p__1764498__hl__%2Bwaterman+%2Bcarene+%2Bring__fromsearch__1#entry1764498

 

As for the Parker, I haven't tried Premier out so I cannot really be the judge.

 

Waterman in general has a big advantage over Parker for me in that it uses standard international cartridges. This gives you a much broader choice of inks, and in my experience it is easier to buy an international cartridge when you're travelling. Also, I didn't like the two Parker inks (blue and black) I tried. Some reviewers had similar issues, so if cartridges are you preferred option for ink I would recommend going through ink reviews here on FPN. On the other hand, if you are considering to get a converter none of this will pose a problem.

[smodak]

Carene!! I have a Waterman Charlseton and a couple of Carenes. I would definitely buy a Carene over anything. It is a brilliant pen. Writes extremely well and very well constructed. I also happen not to dislike the CC fillers as I find them easier to clean.

Edited March 24, 2012 by smodak

[georges zaslavsky]

none of these three, try to look for wataerman laureat on the bay which is a better writer than all these pens

[Glenn-SC]

I own both a Charleston and a Carene, and both are nice pens.

I've never seen a Premier in person.

 

Depending on your likes, the Charleston is smaller and lighter than the Carene.

My preferences trend toward larger heavier pens and so I would get the Carene.

[Patrician]

Ditto, although I don't own any of them, both Charleston and Carène are great pens. For extended writing periods I tend to prefer medium sized pens that aren't too heavy, plus the beautiful classic design of the Charleston makes me covet one. I read these questions and think, "what a lucky person, having to decide among beautiful and great pens".

[ajitk]

Thank you very much for your responses. It appears that the Carene is the clear winner.

 

I have a few questions though:

 

I have never used heavy pens. As I mentioned, I've used the Hero 332 mostly. Would I adjust to a Carene easily or will my hand/fingers get fatigued?

 

I cannot afford a pen collection, so I will be purchasing one pen. I plan to use it as my daily pen, so I will carry it in my shirt pocket. It will not be at my desk or in a pen case, but moving around with me. I am planning to use it with Noodler's black ink.

 

In light of the above, luka505's reference to a post by Ghost Plane is concerning:

 

Carene section creep with Noodler's

 

You may find the Carene more finicky in the ink department. I learned to avoid Noodlers inks known for nib creep as they turned into section creep inks in the case of the Carene and the section would be wet upon uncapping. This is mainly when carrying the pen.

 

Will the nib creep/section creep of the Carene with Noodler's be a deal breaker?

 

Is the nib scratchy at all? Would Noodler's Bulletproof Black Eel be better than the plain Bulletproof Black? If so, won't the nib/section creep be worse with Eel?

 

On Amazon, I see that the Carene Essential is $315 while the Carene is $200. Is this because of the difference in the cap? In other words, regardless of the finish, am I buying the same nib and internals? Will they all write the same? Or is there a non-cosmetic difference between the various finishes?

 

Is the Carene finicky about writing angle? I hold my pens closer to vertical. Will this be a problem?

 

Unlike the Charleston and the Premier, the nib of the Carene is flush with the section. Has this posed problems for you? Have you unintentionally held the pen too close to the nib and got an ink stain? Is this something to worry about?

 

Once again, thank you for all your responses.

Edited March 24, 2012 by ajitk

[Holypie]

Have you considered any Japanese pens? Sailor has a few options that fit your criteria (1911 and Pro Gear), and their nibs are legendary for their smoothness. I personally have a Sapporo with a MF nib and it's fantastic.

[smodak]

Thank you very much for your responses. It appears that the Carene is the clear winner.

 

I have a few questions though:

 

I have never used heavy pens. As I mentioned, I've used the Hero 332 mostly. Would I adjust to a Carene easily or will my hand/fingers get fatigued?

 

I cannot afford a pen collection, so I will be purchasing one pen. I plan to use it as my daily pen, so I will carry it in my shirt pocket. It will not be at my desk or in a pen case, but moving around with me. I am planning to use it with Noodler's black ink.

 

In light of the above, Near Mint's reference to a post by Ghost Plane is concerning:

 

Carene section creep with Noodler's

 

You may find the Carene more finicky in the ink department. I learned to avoid Noodlers inks known for nib creep as they turned into section creep inks in the case of the Carene and the section would be wet upon uncapping. This is mainly when carrying the pen.

 

Will the nib creep/section creep of the Carene with Noodler's be a deal breaker?

 

Is the nib scratchy at all? Would Noodler's Bulletproof Black Eel be better than the plain Bulletproof Black? If so, won't the nib/section creep be worse with Eel?

 

On Amazon, I see that the Carene Essential is $315 while the Carene is $200. Is this because of the difference in the cap? In other words, regardless of the finish, am I buying the same nib and internals? Will they all write the same? Or is there a non-cosmetic difference between the various finishes?

 

Is the Carene finicky about writing angle? I hold my pens closer to vertical. Will this be a problem?

 

Unlike the Charleston and the Premier, the nib of the Carene is flush with the section. Has this posed problems for you? Have you unintentionally held the pen too close to the nib and got an ink stain? Is this something to worry about?

 

Once again, thank you for all your responses.

 

My two Carenes have medium nibs and they are super smooth (too smooth). I have not tried Noodler's in them so cannot comment about nib creep. Mine are not finicky at all to the writing angle. I love the fact that the nib is flush with the section - never was a problem for me. Leterowski (pen seller from france) in amazon and ebay generally have good prices on these pens and he can order a specific nib for you if you use BIN. Everybody perceives things differently and I can only say what works for me. If at all possible try one before buying or perhaps purchase a good used one so that if you do not like it you could sell it back without much loss.

[Ghost Plane]

+1 for Lewertowski who lists as Pen Seller From France. Unless you're set on the newest Essential models, you can find new old stock as low as $140-150 range on the 'Bay from a few sellers. Lewertowski's pens will be perfection out of the box and he's good about getting the nib you want on the pen you want, so ask if you don't see your coveted combo on his site. I've bought roughly 7 pens from him over the years and he's my source for stubs.

 

You may have to experiment with inks to see which works better for you. I never used the blacks in my pens, so they may work beautifully w/o problem. It's sort of trial and error to see which inks creep and which don't. Which reminds me that I haven't tried out my Iroshizuku inks in these pens yet. Hmmmmm :hmm1:

 

I can't answer the weight issue for you. Generally, the more relaxed your hold, the more the weight of the pen does the work for you. These are almost light pens compared with some of my high end pens [one of my silver pens weighs in at 80g!!]

 

These are awesome daily users.

[Calbei]

Carene by a country mile.

 

I've used mine (F nib) with bulletproof black before (though I usually use Waterman or Diamine) without issue. It's a wonderfully smooth nib which glides over the paper under its own weight.

[HeartMan]

I saw an Amber Shimmer Carene Fine on Amazon for $200. If I didn't already have this exact pen, I wouldn't hesitate to pick it up. I have mine filled with Noodlers Brown 41 (2012) and it's a favorite. Works fine at any standard nib to paper angle. The nib glides on paper, but if I need to press hard on a check to get a duplicate to come through, there isn't any problem.

[olivier78860]

The Premier isn't that good. The nib has exactly the same design as the Kultur's, except it's 18ct gold instead of steel, and I feel it's a bit overpriced. I have no experience with the other ones.

If you have the chance, consider a S.T. Dupont Fidelio with an EF or F nib. It's a superior pen in this price range.

[georges zaslavsky]

The Premier isn't that good. The nib has exactly the same design as the Kultur's, except it's 18ct gold instead of steel, and I feel it's a bit overpriced. I have no experience with the other ones.

If you have the chance, consider a S.T. Dupont Fidelio with an EF or F nib. It's a superior pen in this price range.

so true

[johnmont007]

none of these three, try to look for wataerman laureat on the bay which is a better writer than all these pens

 

My older Laureat is a good writer but always hesitates at the beginning of a writing session. Never have figured that out. M nib, I think it is the first generation of Laureats. Fits my hand very well and comfortable to write with. Would not think it would cost as much as a Charleston or Carene.

[welch]

Have you considered any Japanese pens? Sailor has a few options that fit your criteria (1911 and Pro Gear), and their nibs are legendary for their smoothness. I personally have a Sapporo with a MF nib and it's fantastic.

 

+1 for the Sailor. A stiff nib, but among the best being made. Sailor nibs run slightly narrower than Euro/American nibs: a Sailor medium is a medium/fine to me. Sailor fine is very fine.

 

I have a Sailor 1911M (for "midsize"); similar to Pro Gear. A great pen.

 

(On your original choices: I've written with a Premier. Heavy pen, smooth nib. Haven't used any Waterman except the good old Phileas...which is out of production but available on eBay: I'd look first at Jean-Michel Lewertowski's eBay site.)