Pilot Varsity Vs Lamy Safari?

[FPStudent]

Hello Fountain Pen Network!

 

Before I begin I just want to state that I have been reading this site religiously for the past couple of days since coming upon my first fountain pen out of sheer luck, and this site has pointed me towards a vast amount of invaluable information, so thank you!

 

So, now for my point.

 

A couple days ago I got a three-pack of Pilot Varsity "disposable" fountain pens, composed of one black, one blue and one purple. I was really surprised, I love these pens! They require basically no pressure on a typical sheet of paper to produce a thick, wet line. I originally purchased those pens with the intention to use them on essays in my AP US History class (we are required to write them using pen) and I remembered hearing that fountain pens took almost no pressure to write, so I decided to try them out, and they were pretty nice. However, the line the Varsitys produce is much thicker than what I generally like, they are labeled with an M on the nib. In addition, the ink occasionally bleeds through to the back of the page, which is a big no-no for me because my teacher likes us to write on the front and back of every page. I tried the trick where you flip the pen upside down, so the feed is facing up, and the line is finer but I don't like having to go to all that trouble. Plus the feed is ugly to look at.

 

So my question: How much better is the Lamy Safari than the Pilot Varsity? I think I would probably get the Safari in and Extra Fine based on the information I've read about the line sizes on these forums. I like how smooth the Varsity is, but the line is just too thick for me. If you would not recommend the Safari over the Varsity, then what other pen in the Safari's price range would you recommend that has a fine line (or at least an option for a fine nib)?

 

Thanks!

[terminal]

You and my wife with your 'extra-fine' tastes. Her purse pen is a Lamy Safari with EF nib, and yeah... it's just as you guess

[inky]

I have several Lamy's and love every one of them. I also have a few Varsitys as they make a good all purpose, impossible to abuse pen. As you noted, the Mediums do have a very bold line and very wet line. Much more so than my Lamy Mediums. So my question is, what pens were you most likely to use before you picked up a fountain pen? Do you really prefer a super fine line or are you must trying to slow down the ink?

 

If you used something like the superfine Bic Accountant pen, then you will like the extra fine Lamy. However, if your taste run more to the med gel writers, then you should probably try the Lamy med, remember Lamy med is not as gushy as Varsity. You could also order the pen and get a second nib in another size as they are very easy to change out. Even I can change the nib and I do not do my own repairs!

 

Welcome to joys of fountain pens and welcome to FPN.

[mcbender]

Hmm. The Safari is a very reliable pen, but I've never been completely satisfied with the fineness of their fine nibs (they feel closer to a M to me; in fact, I had two F Safaris and a M one and could barely tell the difference between them). I haven't tried the EF, but the impression I've gotten is that those vary somewhat as the QC isn't as good on them... I might be wrong though; as I said, I've not used one. I also don't care for the Safari's triangular section.

 

If you want a narrow line, I'd look at some Japanese pen manufacturers such as Pilot, Sailor or Platinum. There are quite a few pens from these manufacturers in the same price range as the Safari; have a look around at someplace like gouletpens.com (no affiliation) and see what kind of options there are.

[bicfan]

Hello Fountain Pen Network!

 

Before I begin I just want to state that I have been reading this site religiously for the past couple of days since coming upon my first fountain pen out of sheer luck, and this site has pointed me towards a vast amount of invaluable information, so thank you!

 

So, now for my point.

 

A couple days ago I got a three-pack of Pilot Varsity "disposable" fountain pens, composed of one black, one blue and one purple. I was really surprised, I love these pens! They require basically no pressure on a typical sheet of paper to produce a thick, wet line. I originally purchased those pens with the intention to use them on essays in my AP US History class (we are required to write them using pen) and I remembered hearing that fountain pens took almost no pressure to write, so I decided to try them out, and they were pretty nice. However, the line the Varsitys produce is much thicker than what I generally like, they are labeled with an M on the nib. In addition, the ink occasionally bleeds through to the back of the page, which is a big no-no for me because my teacher likes us to write on the front and back of every page. I tried the trick where you flip the pen upside down, so the feed is facing up, and the line is finer but I don't like having to go to all that trouble. Plus the feed is ugly to look at.

 

So my question: How much better is the Lamy Safari than the Pilot Varsity? I think I would probably get the Safari in and Extra Fine based on the information I've read about the line sizes on these forums. I like how smooth the Varsity is, but the line is just too thick for me. If you would not recommend the Safari over the Varsity, then what other pen in the Safari's price range would you recommend that has a fine line (or at least an option for a fine nib)?

 

Thanks!

 

I would be surprised if you found a pen much smoother than the VPen (called so here in Canada). Mine needed a bit of extra smoothing with some 8000 grit paper. Now, it is just like zero friction, almost too smooth.

 

Anyway, the VPen is quite a wide medium. I have never been a fan of the Safari, myself, mainly because of the aesthetics (just not for me). Also, the grip section dictates my grip somewhat, and I don't like that.

 

Have you considered the Pilot 78G for $10, including shipping? The fine nib is roughly equivalent to a Western extra-fine. It will be finer than a Lamy extra-fine. Comes with a converter and a cartridge. Simple, elegant pen.

 

It's always my recommendation for someone on a budget. Flow is a little dry at first, but opens up after a while. I think the cartridge (at least for me) gives a bit better flow. I refill the cartridge with a syringe, as I like to see my ink flow (sac on this particular converter is opaque; the standard piston converter can be had for $10). I use Waterman Florida Blue, a gold standard amongst inks.

 

Pilot nibs are awesome. Like the VPen, the 78G is not sensitive to rotational angle, like many of my other pens. This is a big plus for me.

 

Japanese pens are like Japanese cars -- #1 in reliability. I would always go Japanese in pens. It seems these companies like Pilot, Sailor, and Platinum still care about producing high-quality, high-performance pens. Pilot 78G is #1 in my pen collection for value, performance, and aesthetics. It's my daily use pen.

[terminal]

I haven't tried the EF, but the impression I've gotten is that those vary somewhat as the QC isn't as good on them... I might be wrong though; as I said, I've not used one.

 

So, here is a test sheet. "Draw" your own conclusions.

[Flake]

 

 

Have you considered the Pilot 78G for $10, including shipping? The fine nib is roughly equivalent to a Western extra-fine. It will be finer than a Lamy extra-fine. Comes with a converter and a cartridge. Simple, elegant pen.

 

It's always my recommendation for someone on a budget. Flow is a little dry at first, but opens up after a while. I think the cartridge (at least for me) gives a bit better flow. I refill the cartridge with a syringe, as I like to see my ink flow (sac on this particular converter is opaque; the standard piston converter can be had for $10). I use Waterman Florida Blue, a gold standard amongst inks.

 

Pilot nibs are awesome. Like the VPen, the 78G is not sensitive to rotational angle, like many of my other pens. This is a big plus for me.

 

 

Gotta agree here. My pilot F nib is so thin I hardly use it. Need to fix that one day BUT I think it'd be perfect for what you're looking for. I tend to only use it for notes since its the only pen I have that I can guarantee will not bleed through. (I like wet writers so I get bleed through frequently).

[nickapos]

Pilot is a great pen. Of course Lamy is a great pen too, and you can play around with nibs. If you damage your nib or if you want to change the thickness, you can buy another one and change it on the spot.

I do not think that you can do that with a pilot pen. You stay with the nib you buy the pen with in the first place (of course you can buy 2 pens with different nib sizes).

 

I have both, and I am satisfied with both.

[FPStudent]

Thanks for all the recommendations! In response to Inky (thanks for the welcome by the way ) , I generally use a Uni-ball Vision Elite Micro (the black one with the thinner line) and either a Signo 207 Premier with the standard (medium?) refill or a G2 limited with the default refill as well. I prefer the Micro when I take notes but I like the feel of the bolder lines. Maybe I'll just have to use the Uni-ball Micro on my essays and the Varsity for when I can afford a nice, fat, wet line.

 

Thank you terminal for the line comparison - it looks if the Lamy Extra-Fine is just a bit thinner than the Uni-Ball Vision Micro that I currently use. I do like the way that line looks though. In regards to the Lamy Fine/Extra Fine, does it still write smoothly, not scratchily?

 

In actuality I had not thought of the Pilot 78g when I probably should have. I personally like the look of the pen (after I looked it up) and what I'm reading about it is fairly good. That pen's fine nib is not scratchy either?

 

Thanks for all the help so far, I have done some research and I found a pen shop specializing in fountain pens about an hour or something away from me, so I'm just looking to do some research before I waste a whole day over there

 

And do you think a typical pen shop would probably carry the Lamy Safari and the Pilot 78g? Edit: I found an e-mail for the shop so I just asked them whether they have them or not.

Edited March 19, 2012 by FPStudent

[bicfan]

Thanks for all the recommendations! In response to Inky (thanks for the welcome by the way ) , I generally use a Uni-ball Vision Elite Micro (the black one with the thinner line) and either a Signo 207 Premier with the standard (medium?) refill or a G2 limited with the default refill as well. I prefer the Micro when I take notes but I like the feel of the bolder lines. Maybe I'll just have to use the Uni-ball Micro on my essays and the Varsity for when I can afford a nice, fat, wet line.

 

Thank you terminal for the line comparison - it looks if the Lamy Extra-Fine is just a bit thinner than the Uni-Ball Vision Micro that I currently use. I do like the way that line looks though. In regards to the Lamy Fine/Extra Fine, does it still write smoothly, not scratchily?

 

In actuality I had not thought of the Pilot 78g when I probably should have. I personally like the look of the pen (after I looked it up) and what I'm reading about it is fairly good. That pen's fine nib is not scratchy either?

 

Thanks for all the help so far, I have done some research and I found a pen shop specializing in fountain pens about an hour or something away from me, so I'm just looking to do some research before I waste a whole day over there

 

And do you think a typical pen shop would probably carry the Lamy Safari and the Pilot 78g? Edit: I found an e-mail for the shop so I just asked them whether they have them or not.

 

Mine are not scratchy. Pilot 78G can be had from pokydady on the bay for $10, shipped. They are no longer made (they are not longer listed on Pilot's Japanese website).

[ExcaliburZ]

Mine are not scratchy. Pilot 78G can be had from pokydady on the bay for $10, shipped. They are no longer made (they are not longer listed on Pilot's Japanese website).

Really, there are a bunch here in China. Anyone want one?

[bicfan]

Mine are not scratchy. Pilot 78G can be had from pokydady on the bay for $10, shipped. They are no longer made (they are not longer listed on Pilot's Japanese website).

Really, there are a bunch here in China. Anyone want one?

There is still lots of stock available, but they are not a current product. Discontinued.

Edited March 19, 2012 by bicfan

[pen2paper]

Hi & Welcome FP Student ; )

Don't think I saw ink bleed-through addressed..

3 part issue, paper, ink type, nib size/ flow.

Unless specific paper is required by your instructors, you may wish to test for a best mix of all three.

 

Varsity pens are Not disposable. Once empty, you may refill by firmly grasping the nib/section with paper towel, and pulling straight out, refill with bottled ink, (economical choice), and push the nib/section back in.

Some inks are designed to flow generously, ex. Private Reserve Tanzanite = very wet to Pelikan Black 4001 = dry.

Safari is a solid performer, with nibs a tad wider than most. I use both medium, which is near bold, and fine, which flows well, but does not bleed through most papers. I do not have extra fine, personal preference as I prefer a wet writing nib.

I absolutely agree about the exceptional Pilot nibs. The only reason I downgrade the 78G is ink capacity.

My favorite nib of all is the soft fine of Pilot Custom 74. Higher on the food chain, but worth a try if ever in a pen shop.

[subbes]

A typical pen shop in the US would not carry the 78G, as it's not distributed in the USA. I think it is an Asia-only pen, but it may not be distributed in Japan either. I bought my 78G from Todd at isellpens - he is a member on this board if you want to PM him with questions. My usual stop for new pens is the Goulet Pen company, but they don't carry the 78G.

 

 

If you find you like the LAMY Safari, you can step up to the Al-Star, which is the same shape and build but made in Alumin(i)um. Nibs on most of the LAMY pens are easily swappable with a steady hand and a short strip of Scotch tape.

 

 

 

(I recall reading a discussion on FPN about whether the 78G was still being made and the verdict was yes. This was in late 2011 though.)

[pen2paper]

http://www.isellpens.com/pilot.html

still has the 78G, and still at the sale price.

if you can swing the $75 = free shipping, which would allow a choice of several pens, ink, paper

this could also include the Preppy, and one of my favorites, the Plaisir, very fine nib, stays wet during lengthy note taking, but also tends to write slightly dry. Some of the Safari's are on sale. Another option is to buy Safari EF, with an additional nib in finepoint.

NAYY. just a satisfied customer

[terminal]

Thank you terminal for the line comparison - it looks if the Lamy Extra-Fine is just a bit thinner than the Uni-Ball Vision Micro that I currently use. I do like the way that line looks though. In regards to the Lamy Fine/Extra Fine, does it still write smoothly, not scratchily?

 

I would say it's definitely not scratchy. You can see that some of the rollerballs are actually more scratchy.

 

I guess my personal criticism of writing with my wife's pen is that it's not very flexible for my taste. The thicker Lamys aren't what I would call flexible either... in fact my two criticisms of my broad-nib Lamy are that it is stiff and a little scratchy.

 

Actually, let me back up and make sure if, by scratchy, we're talking about the same thing. Pen skips on the paper and / or ink flow leaves gaps, right?

Edited March 19, 2012 by terminal

[terminal]

You know, I was just noticing these two posts in this thread:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/210423-pilot-78g-f-pluses-and-minuses/page__view__findpost__p__2220539

 

And it makes me think 'scratchiness' is somewhat subjective. I don't have a 78g sitting here, so I cannot directly compare.

 

So, what I would say is, the Lamy EF I used in the picture was far less scratchy than pretty much any of the rollerballs in the test. It is also much less scratchy than the broad Lamy Safari. My personal evaluation therefore is that I would not call it a scratchy pen.

 

The point seems to be somewhere around .05, maybe a little greater but less than .07.

[freddygirl]

http://www.isellpens.com/pilot.html

still has the 78G, and still at the sale price.

if you can swing the $75 = free shipping, which would allow a choice of several pens, ink, paper

this could also include the Preppy, and one of my favorites, the Plaisir, very fine nib, stays wet during lengthy note taking, but also tends to write slightly dry. Some of the Safari's are on sale. Another option is to buy Safari EF, with an additional nib in finepoint.

NAYY. just a satisfied customer

 

I agree on purchasing through isellpens.com. The customer service is fast and quite pleasant. I have purchased from both isellpens.com and pokydady before. The big problem I saw with pokydady (and not his fault at all) was the delay in delivery because of the time the shipment hung out with customs. I think my orders generally came 3-4 weeks after they were shipped. Since isellpens.com is here in the States, I think he keeps a stock of the 78G's so he can ship 'em out by the next day and I always get my orders from him within 2-3 days (usually 2).

 

I've got 2 of the fine 78G's and I love them. I think I did play around with smoothing them down, but that's easily done using a multi-sided nail buffer.

[subbes]

I like that the 78G is so easily customised - I have changed the finish on my 78G from shiny black to matte satin and removed the "gold" printed cap bands, and widened the ink channel to increase how wet it writes. The clip is removable with a little finagling, and I think you can swap the 78G nibs with those from the Pilot Plumix.

 

I also prefer the screw-on cap of the 78G to the snap-on cap of the Safari. But my Safari has great sentimental value to me since it was my father's, and a Safari is still a good choice of pen.

[FPStudent]

Wow, thanks for all the replies! As subbes said, the pen shop does not carry the 78g but does have the Lamy Safari and they said I would be able to try it if I went there. Terminal, the scratchiness I was talking about was whether or not there was a noticeable amount of friction of the nib against the paper. If a pen scratches like that, then it will also skip and such . But if the 78g does not scratch, it seems that I would be hard-pressed to beat it for the price. However, the buying online is a turn-off: As a 17-year-old, I do not have a credit card and my dad doesn't like purchasing online, so I'd rather not bother him with it when I could go and get it myself.

 

Pen2paper, good point with the combination of ink, paper, and flow. We just use typical college-ruled paper, so it probably feathers and bleeds fairly liberally compared to expensive paper, which I don't use.

 

And waiting 2-3 weeks for a pen does not seem appetizing either...by that time school would be over :bonk:

 

Right now I need to get some work done though so I will probably just plan to go to the shop this Saturday and look through what they have. I've been making some decent money recently though, so maybe I'll be able to afford something even a little nicer