Vintage Pelikan Nibs - Flex Identification

[dzg]

Hi Guys,

Been researching the vintage Pelikans (100, 140, 400 series). Had a question about this mythical flex.

 

On this forum the Pelikan vintage nibs are identified as "semi-flex" or "maxi-semi-flex/'flexi'"

But how does one identify which vintage nibs are considered to have flex?

 

On the big auction website I noticed 3 different design patterns on vintage Pelikan nibs (see attached image).

 

Nib design 1: Two lines that meet in the middle (seen on 140 & 400 series)

Nib Design 2: No lines, just the word Pelikan written in retro script (most commonly seen on 100/100N series)

Nib design 3: Two lines but they do not meet in middle (seen on 140 & 400 series) - I think these are not vintage nibs but from 1980's.

 

Due to interchangeability of nibs I suspect that some sellers are using Design #3 nibs in vintage pens to make some quick $$. BEcause no reference website shows this design as valid on vintage pens.

 

After spending hours on this forum there is not one post about how to identify which nibs on the vintage Pelikans have flex.

 

It'd be great if some of the experts could give advice, on how to select the correct vintage nib for flex. Hopefully this can become a reference thread for future buyers.

Edited December 28, 2011 by dzg

[sessyargc]

Best and quickest (well not necessarily) way is to ask for writing samples. Not all vintage Pelikan nibs have flex, for example the Pelikan nib that has 2 breather holes (a Manifold nib) are known to be nails. Aren't circa 80's pens considered vintage already? How old does a pen need to be to considered vintage? I for one consider my 80's pens vintage, and my Mabie Todds antiques (from around 1910s).

 

I have 3 Pelikans (400 series, 2pc OB, 1pc OBB) that have different nibs. The nibs on my 400s actually match the nibs you have in your attached photos And I can tell you all of them have flex. Conservatively, I see them as semi-flex nibs. These were bought at a brick-and-mortar shop, so I had the pleasure of testing them out (with ink on paper) before buying them.

 

 

If you doubt the performance of a pen being auctioned write the seller a question and ask for writing samples. Goodluck!

[mori45]

Generally speaking, the older nibs (early 1990s and before) are more flexible than more modern nibs, but please note that not all vintage nibs are flexible. Your best bet for flexible nibs are looking for longer tines. I've had flexible nibs that looked like #2 & #3, but I would not be comfortable saying that all of those like them would have the same qualities. However, as the nibs are all 14k, you can have flex added by a nibmeister as well.

[Aborst]

There is a chart with the Pelikan nib sizes on the great ruettinger-web.de site. This is the site that -as far as I know- has the most Pelikan related information on the internet.

There's not that much information on flexibility, but maybe this will be of help just a little.

Have a look here and here

 

Regards,

 

Allard

[Bo Bo Olson]

Aborst +1 for your info links.

 

As far as I know from my 'vast' collection of one each of vintage Pelikans 120, 140 and 400NN and info from reading...

140's are often or mostly semi-flex. Mine was my first 'mythical' semi-flex.

My 400NN is maxi-semi-flex/'flexi'; others have that in semi-flex or maxi.

 

My '50s-65, model 120 is a nice, some what compared to today's nibs, springy regular flex gold plated nib. An F that is joy to write with.

It matches my M400 '90-96 Tortoise. Both are tied for @ # 16 of my nibs.

Those are real good nibs.

 

 

I do not consider the slightly more flexible than the '90-97 regular flex, '80's nibs to be 'vintage'.

After all how can that be vintage...that was yesterday, or the day before when I was staggering around on a dance floor.

 

I was informed by Piebi; some one who has a good sized using 'collection' of Pelikans that I'd not be satisfied with buying an '80's nib for my '90's M400, in I have been spoiled by my vintage '50's-65 140 and 400NN nibs on flexibility.

 

I think one should buy first a 140 semi-flex nibbed pen.

 

That is the basis nib because you need the nib to have experience to say, that is semi-flex or that is only springy 80's or that is maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' because it spreads it's tines with half the pressure of a semi-flex.

An '80's nib is springy, but not semi-flex. Yet if one has no semi-flex one can make a mistake and think it one; like many who have Japanese Falcon's and think it is because it is a softer nib with nice spring.

 

I had a maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' nibbed pen from the get go, but had no experience to judge it by.

I thought it a wet writer that some loved and many hate enough to send off to be made dry writers.

 

I got my first 'mythical' semi-flex and thought it semi-flex.

 

I got my first maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' and found out that pen was maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' and had been all along.

 

 

Posted a 140 is 'standard' sized. I think one can start there and get a maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' 400NN later.

 

Of course growing up with standard size pens, I would so think. If I grew up with modern Large and Over Size pens only like many, I would think it small, if I did not post, like most who grow up with huge pens.

 

Posted the 140 or 120/400(200) are not small pens. :blink: The 400NN is a medium large pen a tad smaller than a medium large P-51.

 

If you refuse to post...you can always transplant a good vintage nib (400NN) into your medium large 600. In that 99% of the people in the world would not know you substituted a slightly smaller less blingy but better nib as is....don't worry about it.

The 1% that would know, would understand and :clap1:.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[dzg]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Unfortunately it is as I suspected, there is no way to identify a flexible nib just from the design.

 

I have visited that reference website and whilst there is info on the pens and nibs there is nothing about how to identify which ones have flex.

I already know about the manifold nibs (with two holes).

 

I know that not all vintage (1940-60's Pelikan nibs have flex), I know people who own some of them and they will say one nib is more flexi than the other.

I was just hoping that by looking at the nib design its possible to identify nibs that have flex.

 

btw it is confirmed that Design #3 is from the 1980's model (400), yet on the big auction site you see this nib in everything from 100N, 140 and even 400N and 400NN. So this is most definitely a case of seller switching nibs. Its not an original vintage nib from 1940-1960's. So just beware when buying a vintage pen with design #3 nib.

[christof]

btw it is confirmed that Design #3 is from the 1980's model (400), yet on the big auction site you see this nib in everything from 100N, 140 and even 400N and 400NN. So this is most definitely a case of seller switching nibs. Its not an original vintage nib from 1940-1960's. So just beware when buying a vintage pen with design #3 nib.

 

Sorry, I have to diasagree with this. This nib design can be found on 1960's Pelikan 140 and 400NN and is correct for this late pens. The difference between the 1960's and 1980's nibs is in the style of the letter for nib size: If it's italic, it's from 1980's. if not, it's 1960's.

[dzg]

Hi Christof,

Your input is very welcome, thats the purpose of the thread to get expert opinions.

 

I was just quoting what a Pelikan colector told me last night ... unless its proven in some reference material then I guess neither of us know if we are 100% correct or not.

 

The Pelikan nib mystery continues ....

[fenriz]

I'm changing the subject a little bit, but I've just gotten a Pelikan that's 5" capped with the third design shown above, and the nib size lettering in italics. It's got two rings of trim on the base of the cap like my modern m800, and a single trim ring on the piston knob. The nib is flexible, and it is 18c. Ink window is clear. Cap band reads "W.-Germany - Pelikan"

 

Any ideas?

Edited January 17, 2012 by fenriz