Zerkall Frankfurt Paper For Book?

[the flexistentialist]

Good morning all,

 

I was hoping to tap the experience of this forum about Zerkall papers. I'm working on an art book and wanted a really luscious paper for the foundation. The book is going to be about 750 pages (small pages - I can get 12 sheets (24 pages) out of a 22x30 sheet). And before I made the investment, I wanted some opinions.

 

Each page is going to be covered front and back with calligraphy - a fairly wet flex FP will be the main contributor. There will also be 52 plates at the end of the book - pen and ink illustrations. The whole thing has an ancient feel to it and Noodlers Manjiro Whaleman's Sepia may become the ink of choice for the bulk (if it tests well).

 

Can Zerkall handle double-sided writing? Does anyone have any experience with it in journals/books? I'm wondering how it lays in signatures. And as some of the writing may be rather small - feathering is also a huge sticking point.

 

Any and all advice, opinions or anything else is greatly appreciated. I recently invested in some stock that was well-reviewed online, that I thought would work, only to find that the reverse of the page feathers like a maniac and had massive bleedthrough, even though the front of the page behaved beautifully - trying not to get burned again.

 

Thanks again in advance!

the flexistentialist

[WanderingAuthor]

Good morning all,

 

I was hoping to tap the experience of this forum about Zerkall papers. I'm working on an art book and wanted a really luscious paper for the foundation. The book is going to be about 750 pages (small pages - I can get 12 sheets (24 pages) out of a 22x30 sheet). And before I made the investment, I wanted some opinions.

 

Each page is going to be covered front and back with calligraphy - a fairly wet flex FP will be the main contributor. There will also be 52 plates at the end of the book - pen and ink illustrations. The whole thing has an ancient feel to it and Noodlers Manjiro Whaleman's Sepia may become the ink of choice for the bulk (if it tests well).

 

Can Zerkall handle double-sided writing? Does anyone have any experience with it in journals/books? I'm wondering how it lays in signatures. And as some of the writing may be rather small - feathering is also a huge sticking point.

 

Any and all advice, opinions or anything else is greatly appreciated. I recently invested in some stock that was well-reviewed online, that I thought would work, only to find that the reverse of the page feathers like a maniac and had massive bleedthrough, even though the front of the page behaved beautifully - trying not to get burned again.

 

Thanks again in advance!

the flexistentialist

 

The only way you can be sure any paper will work will with a particular pen and ink is to try it. See if you can get a sample to test the ink you want to use on. Because inks and papers have a complex relationship - and even the nib that is laying the ink down on the paper can change the way it behaves.

 

And, yes, you're right that some papers are fine on one side and dreadful on the other. These are usually papers which will indicate "print this side" or something similar on the packaging. Anything of the sort is a huge red flag - don't buy such paper unless you only want to use the "good" side.

 

Edited to add: There is even a downside to using a test sample - unless you can be sure you're buying paper from the same batch the sample was taken from. Batches of paper often vary. The "same" paper will be fine in one batch, and unusable in the next. Certain mills do have higher quality control standards, but if you aren't certain of the quality control, then you need to test paper that comes from the same batch you'll be buying.

Edited August 16, 2011 by WanderingAuthor

[txinsk]

Get a sample! Seriously do get a sample and try it out. The combination is nib/feed, ink and paper. The three of these put together determine your writing experience. The sample I have feathers ever so slightly with Noodler's polar black with a wet writer, but no bleedthrough at all. Talas will sell a sample book so that if it does not work out you have other options to try.

 

Now you have not told us nearly enough information. For instance are you thinking the 100 gsm or the 145 gsm paper? Both should fold fine. The texture can change your writing experience as well. Smooth paper generates cleaner lines, personally I like vellum or linen finishes as I think it adds character to your writing.

 

The folding aspect is important in another way. If you are ordering a standard sheet the grain runs in the 20" direction. This is the direction you want to fold in. If you fold across the grain the pages will attempt to close on you. So you need to have this in mind. Since you did not tell us the final size of the book I don't know how you intend to do this.

 

Practically, 750 pages will be a thick book, a very thick book. This means, by your offerings, at least 16 sheets of paper (did you account for trimming as well or are you fine with a wavy book block?) How are you going to bind this? Maybe two volumes might be better. If you do go for one volume I would suggest buying proper bookbinding thread (see Talas) as a substitute at that size maybe more destructive to the paper.

 

I have probably said too much by now, I hope this goes well for you.

 

Rick

[the flexistentialist]

You can never say too much as far as I'm concerned - thanks!

 

I apologize for not saying enough - I didn't want to hinder anyone from replying by seeing a wall of text.

 

The page size is 5 3/8" x 9 1/16" with generous margins. (A spread would thus be 10 3/4 x 9 1/16") The size gives me a little flexibility on the large sheets for matching grains appropriately, yet still leaving room for trim.

 

Thickness was definitely a concern as well, I was hoping to try the 100gsm over the heavier stock - the binding on the book is a coptic crossed with a piano hinge. The book folds flat no matter how thick and is stitched to a series of mahogany dowels. (Or will be once I have the paper - I've made 3 prototypes so far that work well, but the paper is not FP friendly) So, though I'd like to keep the thickness down as much as possible, if it comes to a choice between no bleedthrough or thin-ness - I'll definitely choose no bleedthrough. 700+ is pages enough, I don't need it to venture into the area of 1400 for using single sided pages. That would just be obnoxious. :embarrassed_smile:

 

I also prefer the vellum for the sake of character.

 

Thanks for the ideas on how to get samples - the places I had found the paper were not nearly as helpful - minimum 10 sheet orders and rather outrageous extra shipping fees for oversized papers. I will definitely take a closer look.

 

The ink is totally up for grabs until the paper is settled - The Noodlers Manjiro was simply a first choice. I'll be buying enough for 1000 pages when the time comes, so that I can do serious testing with ink combinations. I only have two pens at the moment that can handle the writing style - so there won't be many choices there.

 

My problem, I think, was getting burned on my last batch of samples - I got a set of samples for the last paper I order and it held up well. But when I bought the large amount, the paper looked the same but the backs of the pages misbehaved to the point of non-use. I suppose it's like Wandering Author said. Quality Control wasn't on my side. I was hoping since Zerkall was a more high-end paper company, that QC would be better.

 

Again - wanted to check with the experts here first. The next best thing to personal experience is other people's experience.