Cross Under Appreciated?

[Dutchpen]

why are cross pens so under appreciated.

 

 

There quality is very good, they still have a lifetime warranty and they are not overpriced.

 

i have some for sale at the classifieds section and on some other advertisement sites but it seems that nobody want them.

some people ask me if a i have cross nibs and other parts so maybe i'm taking the pens apart and use them for parts but it a shame.

 

 

 

Lennard

[UltraMagnus]

Well, the lifetime warranty only applies to the original owner, and they are all cartridge converter pens that only take their proprietary cartridges.

 

At least, that is what puts me off them.

[Dutchpen]

Well, the lifetime warranty only applies to the original owner, and they are all cartridge converter pens that only take their proprietary cartridges.

 

At least, that is what puts me off them.

 

the lifetime warranty is also for second owners, at least here in Holland.

I' just got two cross pens for repair without charging (except shipping).

 

I agree for the filling systems, they are all c/c.

but modern parkers and watermans are also only c/c fillers.

 

 

Lennard

[UltraMagnus]

the lifetime warranty is also for second owners, at least here in Holland.

I' just got two cross pens for repair without charging (except shipping).

I didn't realise that, I just assumed it was identical to sheaffers policy.

I agree for the filling systems, they are all c/c.

but modern parkers and watermans are also only c/c fillers.

Parker yes, waterman isn't proprietary as they take international standard carts.

[777]

For me at a least, I don't find their designs pleasing. I'm a fan of larger, cigar shaped, and "Pelikan Souveran" shaped pens. The cross pens tend to be to slim for me...

 

Plus, unless the pen has something really special to offer, I won't buy a c/c filler. But that's just me.

[Florida Blue]

For me at a least, I don't find their designs pleasing. I'm a fan of larger, cigar shaped, and "Pelikan Souveran" shaped pens. The cross pens tend to be to slim for me...

 

Plus, unless the pen has something really special to offer, I won't buy a c/c filler. But that's just me.

 

You should take a look at the Cross Apogee. I have one and it is a great pen. It's a fat cigar shape, comes in a lot of great finishes (I have the chrome guilloche finish) and a buttery smooth 18kt gold nib with a bit o' spring to it (at least mine does). The Townsend is another large pen about the length of an M1000 or a 149 and probably as wide as an M600/M800 or 146. The Townsends nibs were made by Pelikan until recently now I believe they are made by Cross themselves in China.

 

I would agree that Cross gets a bad rap because they are associated with the Century ball pen and pencil sets that for generations Americans received as graduation and retirement gifts and the fact that production has moved to China.

 

Cross pens all have a lifetime guarantee and I quote from the Cross website "All Cross writing instruments and desk set penholder mechanisms are unquestionably guaranteed against mechanical failure, regardless of age. Any Cross product or part requiring service under this warranty will be repaired or replaced at no charge when received at our factory from the consumer."

 

Cross pens are an incredible value too. Where can you can pens brand new with 18kt gold nibs for under $200 at full MSRP?

 

To me their quality is held to the highest standards.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Florida Blue

[pajaro]

So, what's wrong with the Century ball pens? Are they seen as cliche? I have a couple of Century fountain pens that still work well after about thirty years. My Century desk sets are a great convenience and I see nothing wrong with them. Ninety-nine cents plus $8 postage on ebay isn't so bad for a 10K GF desk pen.

[SheilaM]

Interesting subject, this. We have a Townsend gold FP that writes like a dream; I bought it for Joe probably 20+ years ago now. I was also the recipient of one of those employment anniversary Century ballpoints, again 20 years ago at five years - have just hit 25 years with that same employer and the pen is still going strong (though I wonder, sometimes, about me!).

 

I do think they're underappreciated. Every one I've dealt with, at least, has been marvelously reliable.

 

I must say their recent designs leave me cold though. That's a matter of my taste, though, and not any reflection of quality.

[Florida Blue]

So, what's wrong with the Century ball pens? Are they seen as cliche? I have a couple of Century fountain pens that still work well after about thirty years. My Century desk sets are a great convenience and I see nothing wrong with them. Ninety-nine cents plus $8 postage on ebay isn't so bad for a 10K GF desk pen.

 

Nothing is wrong with the century ball pens but many people who write with fountain pens see Cross as a company that focuses on their profitable ball pen sets for the gift market. Cross is known more for their Century ballpoint than any fountain pen they have ever produced.

 

I will add that Cross is one of the few companies that make gold filled pens rather than the cheaper gold electroplate alternative.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Florida Blue

[Jerome Tarshis]

I don't pretend to understand why used Cross fountain pens don't have much resale value. And it is precisely the used FPs that are undervalued: Cross has been selling *new* pens pretty well since it introduced its ballpoint pen in the 1950s and then its several lines of FPs in the early 1980s.

 

Almost all well-known brands of fountain pen have been traditionally given as graduation presents, retirement presents, and so on. Parker and Sheaffer and for that matter Montblanc have not suffered in their reputation because of that, and those brands get decent prices on eBay and elsewhere. Including FPN. The Cross ballpoint pen came out at pretty much the same time as the Parker Jotter, but the Jotter has an active collector community and I dare say the Cross doesn't. (I like both my Jotter and my Cross BP.)

 

For most of its history since 1846 Cross was more a pencil manufacturer than a pen manufacturer, although in its recent accounts of its history Cross tries to obfuscate that. The original Cross Century, which came out in 1946, was a mechanical pencil. When the BP market stabilized, Cross added a BP, as did lots of other writing-instrument manufacturers. But they're not an older or more recent or otherwise different manufacturer of ballpoint pens than anybody else. Parker pens, whether FP or BP, have a history of being given in large numbers as presents, but that hasn't ruined the secondary market for them. Why Cross and not Parker? I don't know. But it doesn't seem that widespread gift-giving is the answer.

 

Nor is it the fact that, in very recent years, Cross has shifted manufacture to China. The secondary market wasn't there for Cross pens before that happened. I bought my first used Cross FP at a very modest price before Cross began manufacturing in China.

 

I do, speaking as an American, or North American, have a sense of coldness about Cross pens and about the company, but I suspect that the company has positioned itself differently in its foreign markets. I once posted to FPN something like the impression that nobody had ever written a love letter or a poem with a Cross FP, whereupon I was spectacularly corrected by penrivers, who gave a Spanish-language citation indicating that the Argentinean writer Adolfo Bioy Casares and the Mexican poet and novelist Carmen Boullosa had as an act of friendship exchanged Cross Classic Century FPs, she had written with that pen for 19 years, and was bereaved by losing it. No lack of poetry or femininity about Carmen Boullosa's writing.

 

Perhaps one of our New England members can offer some enlightenment. I've found the original Century FP and the Townsend really good pens, but the Parker 75 (also a really good pen) has a splendid secondary market and the Cross pens don't.

[pajaro]

From my own searches on ebay for a Cross Century fountain pen, I have concluded that there aren't many being offered. Most that are offered are NOS, often by stores, and at higher than the original prices, which weren't cheap. I paid $80 for the one I bought in 1980, a 10K GF pen with gold nib. Sporadically I see what's out there, and most are Century IIs. It looks to me like those prices are high enough, as I have never been tempted by a Century II.

Edited August 9, 2011 by pajaro

[Ernst Bitterman]

I have little to say on Crosses because it seems no one ever sells 'em and I'm under-funded to buy them new. The one I've got is jolly good, and I suspect the dearth of them for sale speaks to the appreciation the current owned have for them.

[ImolaS3]

I like cross and own over half a dozen.

 

I think the quality is down on my other big name pens - not build quality but design quality. For instance, some of mine have very course pitched and roughly produced threads holding the pen body to the end section containing the nib and when one unscrews it or does it up, it feels rough and sloppy when compared to pens with well cut and fine pitched threads.

 

Most of mine have metallic grip sections and many are chrome plated which makes it difficult to hold them for a long time whilst writing.

 

Also, I find my cross pens a little thin at the grip for me and so they rarely get used when I have many thicker and more comfortable pens to use.

 

Gorgeous pens that I adore, but slightly flawed.

 

I am embarrassed to say that whenever I do a trawl of eBay looking for pens, I rarely enter cross into the search even though I really like the look of many of their pens

[HeartMan]

Yesterday my wife received the Cross Century II in Royal Blue. I compared it to one of the Chrome Cross Century's I have.

A couple quick impressions: 1) Even though the Century II is thicker than the older Century model, the pen weighs less. This seems to be a matter of taste. My preference is a bit more weight, but my wife likes it. 2) The Century II seems to me to be flimsy even a bit loose, whereas my older Century is solid. Pulling the cap off I noticed that the Century II's have plastic parts as opposed to my all metal Century. I don't know if Cross started using plastic innards before shipping production to China or if this was an additional cost savings. I don't know if Cross has started going plastic on all their pens, so I checked their website for info. These pens list for $70 and there is no mention of plastic parts, only "chrome-plated appointments). You'd have to pay attention to what they are not saying to realize you are getting plastic parts. Next time I'm in the pen shop, I'll dissect a few. If my wife wants them, I'd buy them, but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone interested in quality.

[Florida Blue]

Nor is it the fact that, in very recent years, Cross has shifted manufacture to China. The secondary market wasn't there for Cross pens before that happened. I bought my first used Cross FP at a very modest price before Cross began manufacturing in China.

 

I would say that this has become an issue at least of late with why Cross pens are not popular. If you search Cross made in China in this forum you will come up with several threads where members are debating whether the quality of Cross has gone down hill since moving production to China. Some had to be locked down because they turned into senseless arguments (which seems to happen when "made in China" is mentioned on this forum). Personally, I think they have maintained their USA-quality in China.

 

Another point that seems to creep up especially in this thread are that Cross pens are thin. Which brings me back to my older point that people associate Cross with the Century ballpoint and Century fountain pen. Few FPN members have looked at the ATX, Apogee or even the Townsend which are all thick pens. The discontinued Verve was another thick pen and very high quality.

 

I'm probably generalizing here but men seem to prefer thick pens over thin so few men find the Century, Century II or the Spire appealing. In fact, Amaya Cerdeirina co-owner of Penfriend in London has even mentioned that she would not recommend Cross to a younger man because they tend to go for large pens but they are popular with women and older gentleman.

 

I don't find Cross' designs to be anything more boring that the Pelikan Souveran series and Montblanc Meisterstuck series which is essentially the same exact pens they have been making for over 60 years in a range of size differences. Even Parker (who I love) is pretty staid in their designs lately.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Florida Blue

[Russ]

Cross generally avoided non-metallic barrel / cap construction until the Affinity (plastic) and the Suavage (chrome w/ crocodile wrapping). The Affinity is aimed at the lower end of the market; the Suavage at a more ladylike fashion market. Rebecca Moss, for example, once commissioned a run of pens from Stipula for a mossy green acrylic with dramatic, bold veins of red. This bold, fashionable look made by a venerable house was aimed at the feminine market, but the class and caliber of the pen made it stand out as unique and desirable.

 

Moreover, Cross barrel shape tends to be uniformly round and either finished in matte, lacquer, or painted surface. Experiments with engraved silver (e.g., YOL Victorian), Doric facets (e,g., Omas Milord, Bexley Americana, etc.), celluloid and / or acrylic (e.g., Aurora Optima) might have garnered greater interest by refined pen enthusiasts.

 

I think Cross decided to maximize the use of metal-working tooling and also suffered from a lack of imagination as noted above. So while their offerings are often affordable, reliable, and backed by great service, the Company suffers from a lack openness to a broader vision. Then agian, I'm not privy to the interior reality of their corporate situation over the long-term.

[crosspens]

Well, the lifetime warranty only applies to the original owner, and they are all cartridge converter pens that only take their proprietary cartridges. At least, that is what puts me off them.

the lifetime warranty is also for second owners, at least here in Holland. I' just got two cross pens for repair without charging (except shipping). I agree for the filling systems, they are all c/c. but modern parkers and watermans are also only c/c fillers. Lennard

 

Hi Everyone

I thought i would clarify the warranty.

 

It is a lifetime mechanical guarantee regardsless of whether it's on the first, second or fifth owner. If the product is less than perfect mechanically it is covered.

 

Oh and that is globally without proof of purchase.

 

I hope that helps

[ExcaliburZ]

I agree with the lack of imagination. The Century/Townsend have a classic look, the ATX is different and functional. Everything else is boring or re-imagining of what they done already.

[OcalaFlGuy]

I agree with the lack of imagination. The Century/Townsend have a classic look, the ATX is different and functional. Everything else is boring or re-imagining of what they done already.

 

IMO, in addition to the "all Cross pens are the really thin ones", the above is the other biggest misconception affecting Cross fountain pens.

 

To support the proposition that the above is a misconception, I offer this evidence.

 

 

IMO, the two things that definitely DO NOT apply to these two pens is any lack of imagination or boringness.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL-the real answer is it's That Perception vs Reality thing again

[nxn96]

I can't help but wonder if the general sense of Cross being under-appreciated (at least so it seems in the US) is to a degree the aftermath of Cross being a victim of it's own success, particularly in the 1970's and 80's, plus the perception of American brands as not being as "good" as imported brands/lines that really came to the fore in that period.

 

Back when I graduated from college with an Accounting degree in the 1970's, one was pretty much guaranteed to receive at least one Cross set as a graduation gift. I got two- one was a Chrome bp/mp set and the other was a 12k gf bp/mp set. Other Cross pens came in over the years, some as corporate gifts, some not; in general, they were all the same pen set in a different (Chrome, gold filled, matte) skin. By the time Cross seemed to be aggressively pursuing new designs and styles, I think they were heavily stereotyped as the company that makes those thin ballpoint/pencil sets and it was a struggle to get some of the newer stuff "noticed".

 

I think Cross' re-entry into the fountain pen business can be largely described as a matter of bad timing. As others have noted, by the time the fp's were introduced, Cross was very much defined by their bp/mp business. It was also the same period when the other "iconic" US pen companies (i.e., Parker and Sheaffer) were struggling to maintain their own positions in the quality US pen market against MB, Waterman (which had become a decidedly "French" company by this point), Pelikan, Pilot, etc.; lines that were increasingly defining the "quality" market.

 

I always thought the Cross pens were visually handsome and mechanically excellent, but always found them a little too thin for comfortable writing. As a result, most of my Cross sets sat in a drawer. While I was already a regular fountain pen user by the time Cross introduced its fp line, I had pretty much moved on. Over time, I sold or gave away all my Cross pens, save for the 12k set as it was engraved and a gift from one of my sisters; but it still sits unused in a drawer.

Edited August 11, 2011 by nxn96