Expensive Pens Vs. Cheap Pens

[Splicer]

I'm getting two distinct impressions from this thread. First, that people on this forum are used to having to defend their pen purchases to non-enthusiasts, and second, that its not common for other people to be really interested in the personal details of a pen, or that maybe the question was too broad. I'm finding this fascinating, because as a complete newbie to fountain pens, I really do want to know what makes a $5 pen different from a $500 one. I have one old pen, i have no concept of what it is "worth" (except to guess that it wasn't high-end, based on where I got it). I like it. After using an expensive one would I ever be happy with it again? Probably depends on a lot of things, which is where the trouble is coming from.

 

Yes. You really want to know what makes a $5 pen different from a $500 one, but there is no way to answer that question without knowing what the $5 pen is and what the $500 pen is, and then the answer might be too specific to be useful rather than too broad.

 

Your acoustic guitar analogy is pretty good. For most people any old acoustic guitar is awesome. For professional musicians, nuances of tone make a big difference. For musicians who prefer to play standing or sitting, the shape of the body makes a difference. For people who change tunings frequently the true of the neck and the strength of the truss which keeps the neck true becomes more important than for those who use standard tunings exclusively. After playing for a while one may prefer high or low action and be willing to pay more for an easily adjustable bridge and so on and so on.

 

It's possible that you could get all the attributes that you want from an inexpensive guitar, but the more you play, the more likely it is that one of these features will come up that you'll want, and will only be available from a more expensive model. Or you may be learning about the guitar and want to have a wide range of experiences with different models, so you will be willing to buy expensive models just to find out what makes them so special. You might do that and still go back to the inexpensive model.

 

But anyone who tells you that you need a $5000 guitar is just full of it. Especially if you're new to guitars.

 

Likewise, a pen that is working for you is all you need. Maybe you'll hear people describe flexible nibs and want to try them out. Maybe you'll go to a meet and compare your plasticky looking pen (hypothetical... I don't know what your pen looks like) with some smooth and shiny "precious resin." Maybe you'll get frustrated because the cartridges available don't give you the range of colors you want. Then maybe you'll wish that your pen held more ink than fits in the tiny converters. Maybe you'll want a custom-ground nib. Who knows? But each one of these things probably means paying more. Some attributes of expensive pens may mean something to you, others won't.

 

I adore my $40 Pilot Knight because it is a great writer, handsome, and unlike some of my more expensive pens, is not flashy so I don't feel self-conscious about pulling it out to do some writing in a lunch counter in a small town. It might attract enough attention to be a conversation piece because it is a fountain pen, but not because it is covered in gold or ornate carvings or has a snowflake on the cap.

 

At home, my MB 149 has a super-smooth nib. Actually, the Pilot Knight does too, but the 149 is just that tiny amount smoother. And I might choose one pen over another because of a mood I'm in or because there's a particular notebook I'll be writing in.

 

There are a lot of variables and exploring them means owning pens of different price ranges. But if one thing works for you and you don't have any need for anything different, then there isn't anything you're missing out on.

[Phormula]

Yes. You really want to know what makes a $5 pen different from a $500 one, but there is no way to answer that question without knowing what the $5 pen is and what the $500 pen is, and then the answer might be too specific to be useful rather than too broad.

 

Couldn't agree more

 

Fountain pens are no different than many other things we use in our life.

Purchasing is the result of a choice, which takes into account expectations, needs and (why not) feelings and emotions.

 

That said, I am not a fan of "expensive" pen. I recognize them being beautiful piece of craftmanship and often the pen itself is far more than the sum of the parts. But on my side I write very little at home, most of my writing is done at the office and on business trips. Here practicality comes into force, I cannot afford to keep an expensive pen in my desk cup at the office and I do not want to be obsessed with keeping it in the bag or in the drawer and taking it out each time I need. Hence I use school pens in the office and good quality but affordable (affordable to me is 20 to 100 Euro range) pens on business trips. Maybe one day I will follow my heart and buy a really good FP knowing that I am following more my emotions than reason, but for the moment I am happy following reason and using my FPs on a daily basis.

[arikol]

I'm a newb as well, and I get how some pens write much nicer than others, and some look/feel much nicer than others. Quality IS something money can buy.

But in many cases a good design and good quality control during mass production can give amazing results and low prices. Sadly, fountainpens are manufactured in smaller quantities these days, which is truly a pity as manufacturing (and material) techniques have steadily improved.

 

I quite like the modern aesthetic of a Lamy Safari, being a design nerd and usability designer. I've tried some older pens which were much, much more expensive, and they don't feel better to me (sure, the casings are made of shinier stuff, and pretty gold inlaid nibs and stuff). I think it depends greatly on what your purpose with the pen is.

 

That said, the best pens (as fawned over by the very knowledgable people on this forum) will be better in many ways. Better construction, nicer decorations, inlays, more complex feed and/or nib designs. Also stuff like individually tested and tweaked nibs are unlikely on a $50 pen...

 

I want at least one expensive pen, but my definition of expensive may be somewhat lower than other people's.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The test and value of a pen/nib is how well it writes for you. Now.

 

With any luck one gets some good pens (used) at a fair price over a few years.

One can go for the fat or skinny pen, narrow or wide nib, nail or semi-flex.

 

All that can be had at a reasonable price.

With luck one can luck into a Top of the Line used pen at a 'reasonable' price.

 

Most of the time a used pen is the way to go, in it's still ok, and affordable.

 

One has to grow with experience, to know or feel some differences. Some pens in the similar pen size have better balance.

Some pens have better nibs, than others in a price range.

For now....your tastes changes.

 

With luck you will end up with a nice selection of pens and nibs to fit any mood, wish or need.

 

They need not all be expensive to be good, but they will have to be good...to you, and no one else.

 

Eventually you get a better pen is a size and weight, that appeals to you...now, and lesser pens will show why they are lesser.

 

Some times a lesser pen will be a good pen, better than expected when matched up against a 'better' pen. One will be a tad more 'shinny'.

 

 

I do have better pens, more balanced to my hand now, than my Esterbrooks....but they are perhaps not so fancy colored. So out comes a Copper Esterbrook, or one of my four shades of blue, or five shades of gray.

It's still a nice pen, and boy is it pretty.

 

It don't have to be a better pen to be a good pen. Many here reach for a 'lesser' pen often.

 

It is 'the way' that is fun. Each step a new one, with luck each pen a pleasure; if no longer for us, then to it's new owner.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[entity999]

Interesting question from the OP that as a newbie interests me too.

 

Given that:

1.we are on this site clearly indicates that we are all looking for something that elevats writing above the purely mundane;

2. there are many factors/variables in producing a pen; and

3. prospective customers will put different weightings on the realtive attractiveness of those production factors,

 

then I think it's clear that there can be no direct correlation between how "good" (if that could be measured in a purely objective way) a pen is and its price as how "good" it is will have a significant element of subjectivity.

 

Bottom line for me is: does a pen interest me on some level (design, history etc) and do I enjoy writing with it? If the answer to both is "yes" then the price is irrelevant!

 

Just my tuppence worth!

[mdbrown]

I'm getting two distinct impressions from this thread. First, that people on this forum are used to having to defend their pen purchases to non-enthusiasts, and second, that its not common for other people to be really interested in the personal details of a pen, or that maybe the question was too broad. I'm finding this fascinating, because as a complete newbie to fountain pens, I really do want to know what makes a $5 pen different from a $500 one. I have one old pen, i have no concept of what it is "worth" (except to guess that it wasn't high-end, based on where I got it). I like it. After using an expensive one would I ever be happy with it again? Probably depends on a lot of things, which is where the trouble is coming from. My main passion out in real life is acoustic guitars, and I imagine they offer a decent parallel. It's possible to get a perfectly adequate guitar for less than $200. It'll work fine, do pretty much the same things that a nicer one would, and it'll be much more indestructible than a delicate handbuilt one. The more expensive guitars aren't better just because they're pricy--you've got to figure out what works with your style. But pair the right person and the right instrument, and magic ensues. It's just easier to find that magic when the materials and workmanship are all deliberate and well considered.

As personal as a musical instrument is, a pen has to be even more so, to an admirer. Performing music is a public activity almost by definition, whereas the act and experience of writing is not easily shared.

 

Not a bad analogy at all. To those who have the skill and the knowledge there are pretty significant differences in guitars. For those who do not play, a guitar is a guitar save for the gilding. There are other parallels as well, for instance a Montblanc pen is produced through automation as much as possible but the nib is hand tuned by a skilled craftsman and is made from 18k gold. A good guitar will be produced by automation as much as possible but soundboard braces must be hand tuned and assembled. A good guitar will be made with a solid select spruce top, solid rosewood or mahogany back and sides. It might be relatively plain, with simple herringbone inlays (like a Montblanc 149 with solid black body and gold plated trim) or very ornate with mother of pearl inlays around the soundhole and shaped mother of pearl inlays in the fretboard (like a Ramses II with vermiel body and lapis blue cap). While I can appreciate the craftsmanship and materials of a fine Taylor or Martin guitar it would be wasted by a hack like me... a $150 Fender acoustic is more than sufficient for anything I can do.

 

So it is with pens, for some a pen is a pen is a pen. For others, th action of the nib is of paramount importance, for others it is the gilding. Aside from the nib, adding gold or mother of pearl adds nothing to the function of a pen but can easily make it more appealing to some just as adding mother of pearl to a guitar adds nothing to the sound it can make it more appealing all other things being equal. But what one person is willing to pay for some others are not... all a personal decision and as often as not one that cannot be justified to others who do not feel the same way.

[redisburning]

You keep repeating about the flea market parker 51...

 

I dont think the 51 is really a cheap pen, either now or when it was first introduced.

[rwilsonedn]

This has been one of the better instances of this topic, I think. In particular I like silvermink's point about aesthetics vs utility.

Certainly a pen has a utility value, including attributes like reliability, instant starting, absence of leaks, easy filling. But to Frank D's point, a Vector will get you there. For a lot of people here there is a sensual component to writing with a fountain pen as well, including attributes such as smoothness, feedback, softness, flex, balance, and the whole motor/visual experience of seeing ink flow onto the paper, assume a graceful shape, and gradually lose sheen as it dries. All these things also have values that contribute to price. To some extent they are random, so you might luck-out with a $2 unloved 3rd-tier vintage pen. And to some extent they are the result of fine mechanical design, choice of materials, and years of experience making pens, and so come at a higher price. You have to pay for a Pilot Custom series, for instance, or even a plain-looking Edison. Finally, for some people owning a fountain pens is also an aesthetic experience, and they really care a great deal about attributes such as physical beauty, cost of materials, and quality of finish. Obviously, they pay a lot for those attributes. The price here may also be influenced by the marketing power of the manufacturer, which can enhance the user's honest perception of the pen.

Maybe that's a way to look at it: at least three different things going on in how an individual values a pen, with a price structure related to each.

ron

[BrandonA]

Ferrari vs Skoda

Vercase vs The Gap

Timex vs Rolex

Sparkling Wine vs Crystall

TWSBI vs Montblanc

I could go on

 

It's all about priorities and budget.

[mdbrown]

Ferrari vs Skoda

Vercase vs The Gap

Timex vs Rolex

Sparkling Wine vs Crystall

TWSBI vs Montblanc

I could go on

 

It's all about priorities and budget.

 

 

Not exactly true. For instance, were the Meisterstuck 149 available for $50 I would buy it and need nothing more. Not everyone wants a Ferrari, or a Rolex, or a Montblanc. The point, at least for me, is that the pens I desire I do so because I like them... price has nothing to do with what I want, only what I can afford. There are pens far more expensive than the 149 but I have no desire for those pens just as I have no desire for a great many pens less expensive then a 149. It's all about desire and ones ability to satisfy it... or not.

[BrandonA]

Ferrari vs Skoda

Vercase vs The Gap

Timex vs Rolex

Sparkling Wine vs Crystall

TWSBI vs Montblanc

I could go on

 

It's all about priorities and budget.

 

 

Not exactly true. For instance, were the Meisterstuck 149 available for $50 I would buy it and need nothing more. Not everyone wants a Ferrari, or a Rolex, or a Montblanc. The point, at least for me, is that the pens I desire I do so because I like them... price has nothing to do with what I want, only what I can afford. There are pens far more expensive than the 149 but I have no desire for those pens just as I have no desire for a great many pens less expensive then a 149. It's all about desire and ones ability to satisfy it... or not.

 

The whole point of this thread is that people will not agree on an answer, therefore a good percentage of people will agree that my comment is "not exactly true". A good few will agree though.

 

You say price has nothing to do with want you want, yet you say you'd buy a 149 if they were $50.

 

I don't want a Ferrari as I have zero chance of ever owning one. If however they were cheaper than a Ford, I'd get one next time I replace my car.

 

Everything in life is about priorities. When it comes to buying things people juggle their money so that they buy the things they need and then if there is any money left over they buy the things they want. If you know you can only afford things of a certain price range then you will instinctively learn to love the things that you can afford and ignore the things you can't.

 

When I was a student I loved Parker pens. I still think they are great pens and serve their purpose well. At my current point in life though I have little intention of buying one as my tastes have changed as my disposable income has increased.

 

I personally do not see the point in hoarding lots of cheap pens when you could easily hold off buying a couple of cheap pens and then buy something in the next price range.

[Albertine]

Ferrari vs Skoda

Vercase vs The Gap

Timex vs Rolex

Sparkling Wine vs Crystall

TWSBI vs Montblanc

I could go on

 

It's all about priorities and budget.

 

 

Or....

 

Versace vs. The Gap vs. Vena Cava/Isabelle Marant/Vanessa Bruno/Rachel Comey/Opening Ceremony

Sparking Wine vs. Crystall vs. a nice Sancerre or a bottle of Veuve Cliquot

TWSBI vs Montblanc vs All The Other Pens People Talk About Here

 

You're creating a false opposition here. The truth of the matter is that it is ALWAYS possible to obtain better quality for equal money using...EXPERTISE. Expertise has a dollar value.

 

If you say, "I want The Top Of The Line Thing" and then you just take the shortest possible distance to achieving it..."What brand name have I already heard of, even though I know very little about this subject?" you'll end up paying a lot more money than if you sit down and think, "I would like a top of the line thing, I am going to educate myself to make sure I find the one that best corresponds to my taste and the product's standards of quality."

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2011 by Albertine

[mdbrown]

Ferrari vs Skoda

Vercase vs The Gap

Timex vs Rolex

Sparkling Wine vs Crystall

TWSBI vs Montblanc

I could go on

 

It's all about priorities and budget.

 

 

Not exactly true. For instance, were the Meisterstuck 149 available for $50 I would buy it and need nothing more. Not everyone wants a Ferrari, or a Rolex, or a Montblanc. The point, at least for me, is that the pens I desire I do so because I like them... price has nothing to do with what I want, only what I can afford. There are pens far more expensive than the 149 but I have no desire for those pens just as I have no desire for a great many pens less expensive then a 149. It's all about desire and ones ability to satisfy it... or not.

 

The whole point of this thread is that people will not agree on an answer, therefore a good percentage of people will agree that my comment is "not exactly true". A good few will agree though.

 

You say price has nothing to do with want you want, yet you say you'd buy a 149 if they were $50.

 

I don't want a Ferrari as I have zero chance of ever owning one. If however they were cheaper than a Ford, I'd get one next time I replace my car.

 

Everything in life is about priorities. When it comes to buying things people juggle their money so that they buy the things they need and then if there is any money left over they buy the things they want. If you know you can only afford things of a certain price range then you will instinctively learn to love the things that you can afford and ignore the things you can't.

 

When I was a student I loved Parker pens. I still think they are great pens and serve their purpose well. At my current point in life though I have little intention of buying one as my tastes have changed as my disposable income has increased.

 

I personally do not see the point in hoarding lots of cheap pens when you could easily hold off buying a couple of cheap pens and then buy something in the next price range.

 

You miss my point. Even if a Ferrari were available in an easy for me to afford price I would not buy one, I don't want it. As for pens, if Krone and Montegrappa and all of their top of the line $10,000 and $30,000 pens were available to me for $30 and the Meisterstuck was $50 I'd still buy the Meisterstuck because it's what I like. Price is not a determining factor in what I like although it can be a determining factor in what I can obtain. Point is the things I like what I like because of what it is and how it looks, price is not a factor in whether I like and want it... price is only a factor in whether or not I have an opportunity to own it.

[Tommy]

I like your style, Dino.

 

For me, restoring a quality vintage pen is so much more rewarding than buying a new one, regardless of the cost. When you're finished, you really own that pen. You know it inside and out. You know how it was designed and how it works. You have something that's more valuable than an expensive new pen. You have knowledge.

 

It's rather sad to see the frequent posts that go something like this:

Q. I spent a ton of money on this new pen, and it writes horribly. How can I fix it?

A: You can't. It's too valuable to work on yourself. Take it back to the store and tell them it's broken.

 

So keep doing what you're doing. You'll save a whole lot of money and you'll have some great pens.

[Blade Runner]

 

 

It's rather sad to see the frequent posts that go something like this:

Q. I spent a ton of money on this new pen, and it writes horribly. How can I fix it?

A: You can't. It's too valuable to work on yourself. Take it back to the store and tell them it's broken.

 

If that's sad, then it must also sad to you when people buy vintage pens that they can't fix themselves, and send it to a pen tech to fix. Not all vintage pens are simple to repair and parts are an issue with vintage. When it's a new pen, it's still under warranty. Not so for vintage. Not everyone has the time, skill, and tools to work on pens themselves. You can still enjoy the hobby immensely.

[kaisede]

What would make a pen worth 50x as much as a pen like those?

 

My desire of owning one...

[afruba]

Similar price differences exist between ballpoints.

I am not a "ballpoint-hater", but I don't see how an expensive ballpoint could be better as a writing instrument than a cheap one. After all, in ballpoints it is the quality of the refill that makes it write good or bad.

 

Yet there is a market for expensive ballpoints.

 

I think what counts here is more than how the thing works as a tool. Compare it to this: There is no technical reason why a gold ring is a "better" jewel than a stainless steel one, but if you offer your loved one a steel ring, what would she say?

Edited February 26, 2011 by afruba

[Dino Silone]

I didn't mean to start a religious debate. I actually do "get it" about passions, and there's no right or wrong when it comes to what you like or what your passions are. (Well, within certain limits, I guess...but I don't think anything to do with pens could come close to those limits. I hope.)

 

When I asked my original question, I had a couple of experiences in mind. The most analogous was the first time I rode a $1000+ road bicycle after a lifetime of riding $100- "10-speed racers". The $1000+ road bike was ten pounds lighter, the gears shifted effortlessly, the brakes were better, the frame was more responsive. I could ride much further, much faster. And, having experienced this difference, I knew immediately why one bike sold for less than $100 new while the other sold for (at that time), about $1100. I could point to each component and say - this contributes X to the difference, where X might be lowering the weight, reducing the rolling friction, making shifting more precise, ... And I could, having experienced that difference, imagine how a $2000 bicycle would be better than my $1000 bicycle, and how there would be a law of diminishing returns that started to kick in, where the differences would only matter to me if I were a road racer, or if I rode more than a couple of hundred miles per week - then I might consider having a bike custom built to fit my body and the type of riding I did perfectly. I'd know exactly what to ask for in order to get those differences in fit and performance, would know exactly what each different component and material choice contributed to the mix.

 

To continue with that analogy, I'd also know that, if I looked around among the $1000 bicycles that I could buy and/or customize, I'd find some that fit me better than others. And maybe I'd know that, adjusting for inflation, I could probably get the same or better performance than I got from my first $1000 bicycle in a $500 bicycle today - technology is like that, and I bought my first $1000 bicycle a good 15 years ago. And, finally, I'd also know that some of my preferences would be just a matter of what I was used to, or even based on some intangibles, e.g., I always preferred to use European components over Japanese in the same price range - part of the road racing mystique, for me.

 

And finally, to beat the analogy to death, I don't use a road bike to ride to the grocery store. For that, my $100, second-hand clunker is actually better and more suitable - it's better at taking abuse, it's geometry is better for riding in a more urban setting. And I won't cry as much if it gets dinged or stolen. If all I ever did was ride to the store, it would be the only bicycle I'd ever need.

 

I guess I was looking for a similar set of perhaps even component/materials level mappings of price to performance that applied to pens. Some posts hinted at things like that. For example, someone mentioned the benefits of flexible nibs, and their unavailability below a certain price point.

 

I'm also getting the idea that a lot of the price beyond a certain point has to do with rarity, with the "coolness" factor, ... generally with things that would be pretty hard to map to performance, but that make all the difference in the world to someone who cares about them. And that's good to know.

 

I see now that bringing vintage pens into the equation wasn't fair. To work that poor bicycle analogy just a little more, yes, it might be possible to find my first $1000 bicycle at a flea market for $5, and maybe it would be possible to make it as good as new for less than $100 in TLC. That still wouldn't mean that, in general, $100 road bicycles were the same as $1000 road bicycles.

 

Thanks for the great discussion

[Dino Silone]

 

 

It's rather sad to see the frequent posts that go something like this:

Q. I spent a ton of money on this new pen, and it writes horribly. How can I fix it?

A: You can't. It's too valuable to work on yourself. Take it back to the store and tell them it's broken.

 

If that's sad, then it must also sad to you when people buy vintage pens that they can't fix themselves, and send it to a pen tech to fix. Not all vintage pens are simple to repair and parts are an issue with vintage. When it's a new pen, it's still under warranty. Not so for vintage. Not everyone has the time, skill, and tools to work on pens themselves. You can still enjoy the hobby immensely.

There's nothing sad about either, if it's what you're into. A big part of the pleasure for me is fixing the pens. That's why I have so many more pens than I actually need.

 

I will never be a collector in the sense that some other folks are, but have no problem with collectors. We all have our own aesthetics and our own passions. I'm mostly a user, but also really love bringing things that were left for dead back to life, particularly tools of any kind. If, through my tweaking, I can make them work better than they did even when they were new, I'm a happy guy. I'll never send a vintage (or any other) pen that I can't fix myself to a technician - I have enough pens so that, if one is a dud,... oh, well. If I can't fix it, it goes back in the junk drawer or into the garbage. As long as I stick to my current spending pattern, I'm out just a few bucks if that happens.

 

One of the really great things about learning to fix up old pens is that your shop and all the tools you need to do almost anything can be had for less than $100 and can be stored in a shoebox. Some modified pliers, some dental picks and sundries, maybe a clamp-on tabletop vise ... and you're good to go. Of course, some fancier tools can enable you to tackle more challenging repairs. But most pens that I've picked up needed only a sac and some nib/feed tuning. Even a Snorkel can usually be brought back to like-new condition with less than $10 in parts and just a little bit of tweaking.

 

And I've also enjoyed the challenge of making parts that are harder to get. For example, tin cans are an excellent source of material to make pressure bars from...

 

There's no right or wrong here - it's all good.

[Blade Runner]

In essence, buy what floats your boat, and lose the conceit that your values apply to anyone else.