Expensive Pens Vs. Cheap Pens

[Dino Silone]

I've been using fountain pens and dipped pens for decades, but only got bitten by the bug to acquire way more than I need a few months ago. I've been buying cheap pens - some new, some decent vintage pens, and some old pens that would have been considered low-ends pens even when they were new. Some of these I bought just to learn how to fix them, and I've still got a drawer full of pens waiting to be restored right now.

 

I was just reading the "Worst Fountain Pen Mistake" thread, and several people said something along the lines of "Buying cheap pens, hoping that would keep me from buying expensive pens..."

 

I can understand that some pens are made of rare and expensive materials. Some are works of art. Some are Rube Goldberg creations (like the Snorkels I've got in the infirmary drawer, waiting for sacs, seals and o-rings...) that are interesting if only for the amount of engineering sophistication and complexity thrown at such a simple thing...

 

But, other than that, what makes an expensive pen worth hundreds of dollars, versus the few bucks you need to lay out for a good-writing cheap pen? (I'm asking this sincerely, not as a challenge... I've never written with a really expensive pen.)

 

Admittedly, some of the cheap pens I've bought have been very frustrating - they skip, they're hard to start, they need a lot of tweaking initially to get them to work right, or at all. But I've been reading threads recently where people have the same complaints about pens that cost more than 10 times as much. (I recently got two new Sheaffer No Nonsense pens that the shop owner brought over from Pakistan, where they're apparently still sold with regular writing nibs, as opposed to calligraphy nibs, and these pens took a fair amount of fiddling before they worked nicely and consistently. But they're great now. $6 apiece.)

 

Some of the cheap pens, both old and new, work just fine after some messing with. Some need no messing at all - like the Parker Vector. Some others - particularly some old pens I got from eBay - I was able to get working, but they'll never be favorites of mine. And some are just plain lost causes.

 

But most of the others have been really happy experiences. The Parker Vector, for example. Even the Pilot Varsities for $3 apiece are great writers. But my best experiences have been with vintage pens like an Esterbrook Bell System J-Pen, a Parker 51 that I got for $2 at a flea market and that I haven't had to do anything to, some old Sheaffers for which I don't know the model name, ... a few others. All less than $10, even including the cost of a new sac and/or nib ...

 

Some of these pens, like the Sheaffer Snorkels and Touchdowns, and the Parker 51,... even the Esterbrook Bell System pen are, for me, works of art - beautiful clean lines, a perfect weight (not to heavy, not too light), a perfect feel (not too skinny, not too fat). And they start right up every time, don't skip, write a beautiful smooth, wet (but not too wet) line ... I can't imagine how anything could be better, even if I had paid 50 times as much.

 

So I guess that's the question buried in here. What would make a pen worth 50x as much as a pen like those?

Edited February 24, 2011 by Dino Silone

[mdbrown]

A great many things can be factored in. Certain materials are going to be expensive and/or labor intensive. Often times it's the name> I remember Frank Dubiel once said that if it's just about putting ink to paper then a Parker Vector is as good as Montblanc or a Krone. Or, to use a different analogy, if cars were only about getting from point a to point b then Mercedes, BMW, Rolls Royce and the like wouldn't be here...

[handwriter]

Note that a question like yours can be made abouth clothes, watches, cars....

Buy whatever pen makes you happy.

Some pens sell at high prices juste because people pay it. Why they pay a high price?. Other people can only tell why them bought a given pen, but that is their reason, not yours.

You can try to find which pen or which kind or pens fit your needs or your taste if you wish.

Besides the obvious trying several pens, one can read in places like this one and try to guess which pen one would like.

People who buy pens can be users, collectors, or both. Users range from people who use the pen for work or for taking notes during hours at school, to those who reserve their nice pens for relaxed, enjoyable writting.

[ubuntu]

Well building tecniques may be expensive like Japanese Urushi, materials can be expensive, gold, resin...other than that markerting is expensive. Just compare a Montblanc 149 to a Pelikan M800, same build quality, same materials 250 euros of difference in price comparison.

IMHO a pen is special to you when it's your perfect tool for expressing your ideas, when it remembers of you something special or someone special when you used it to sign your mortage

Despite that price doesn't count...unless you want to have your pens sitting in ur pocket or on your desk for others to look at...a habit we all dislike here...

Enjoy whatever you like to write...and be proud of everything you can afford

[Dino Silone]

I guess what I'm really asking isn't why people will pay more for certain pens - I understand the "mystique" factor, though I don't really buy into it for myself. (Except when it came to the Bell System pen - that had a certain mystique for me... I was lucky that it also turned out to be an excellent user...).

 

What I'm really asking is if there's some difference you'd expect from a really expensive pen as a user ... will they write more smoothly, with less effort, with less fiddling to set up initially? Will they be less fatiguing to write with for extended periods of time? That sort of thing. I don't care about materials or marketing, really.

 

But I guess I answered my own question,then, in a way...

[Blade Runner]

With all due respects to Mr. Dubiel, the joy of writing with a fp is not simply the ability to make a line on paper for many. There are a huge number of other factors both functional and aesthetic. If you can get that combination for little money, great. But that doesn't mean a more expensive choice is any less valid, because tastes of function and aesthetics vary widely. What's important is that you love to pick up a pen and use it.

 

Technical problems can afflict any pen model. After a while you choose the brands that work best for you. Regardless of price, I would much rather have a pen that required a little adjustment, but one that I would love to use everyday than a pen that wrote ok out of the box, but was so boring that I would never want to pick it up.

[Dino Silone]

With all due respects to Mr. Dubiel, the joy of writing with a fp is not simply the ability to make a line on paper for many. There are a huge number of other factors both functional and aesthetic. If you can get that combination for little money, great. But that doesn't mean a more expensive choice is any less valid, because tastes of function and aesthetics vary widely. What's important is that you love to pick up a pen and use it.

 

Technical problems can afflict any pen model. After a while you choose the brands that work best for you. Regardless of price, I would much rather have a pen that required a little adjustment, but one that I would love to use everyday than a pen that wrote ok out of the box, but was so boring that I would never want to pick it up.

I certainly agree with your first paragraph. As I said, I have some pens that I've restored so that they write well, but they don't scream out to me to make me want to use them. And I suppose I do apply a combination of functional and aesthetic criteria in judging how much I like a particular pen (or anything else, for that matter). But I was asking primarily about function - which will, for me, include ergonomics.

 

To me, the best pen is one that starts right up when uncapped, doesn't skip, writes with very little effort, but maybe with just a little bite, and - very important, because I will write pages and pages at a time when I get going - the shape and weight of the pen have to make it not-fatiguing in extended use. If a pen has all that, my aesthetics tend to adjust.

[Chiro75]

I have some Hero 616's that like to burp once in a while. Otherwise, they write pretty great. $2/pen, seems reasonable! My "expensive" pens are Esterbrooks that I picked up mostly for around $10/each and they're fantastic, even including the fact that most of what goes wrong (j-bar break, $2.50 fix; sac break, $2 fix) is easily fixable for dirt cheap, and the nibs can be replaced by twisting one out and popping a new one in. Personally, I have zero interest in the really pricy pens. I frankly don't even really see much in the aesthetics of a lot of them.

 

But, like anything, there is usually a "why would you spend this much on this if this one at a fraction does the same thing..." and the answer is simply, "because I can." I have a $400 watch that tells time as well as a $2 Mickey Mouse model. Why? I like it. It's titanium and big and people ask about it and I like it. Why would someone buy a house when a tent provides more than ample protection? Etc.

[mdbrown]

With all due respects to Mr. Dubiel, the joy of writing with a fp is not simply the ability to make a line on paper for many. There are a huge number of other factors both functional and aesthetic. If you can get that combination for little money, great. But that doesn't mean a more expensive choice is any less valid, because tastes of function and aesthetics vary widely. What's important is that you love to pick up a pen and use it.

 

Technical problems can afflict any pen model. After a while you choose the brands that work best for you. Regardless of price, I would much rather have a pen that required a little adjustment, but one that I would love to use everyday than a pen that wrote ok out of the box, but was so boring that I would never want to pick it up.

 

I believe that was the point Frank was making. If all you want is a device to put ink onto paper then buy a Vector (or a bic), for the collectors and such it's about a whole lot more then that. To borrow a phrase from the Harley crowd... For those who understand no explanation is necessary, for those who don't no explanation is possible.

[Blade Runner]

With all due respects to Mr. Dubiel, the joy of writing with a fp is not simply the ability to make a line on paper for many. There are a huge number of other factors both functional and aesthetic. If you can get that combination for little money, great. But that doesn't mean a more expensive choice is any less valid, because tastes of function and aesthetics vary widely. What's important is that you love to pick up a pen and use it.

 

Technical problems can afflict any pen model. After a while you choose the brands that work best for you. Regardless of price, I would much rather have a pen that required a little adjustment, but one that I would love to use everyday than a pen that wrote ok out of the box, but was so boring that I would never want to pick it up.

I certainly agree with your first paragraph. As I said, I have some pens that I've restored so that they write well, but they don't scream out to me to make me want to use them. And I suppose I do apply a combination of functional and aesthetic criteria in judging how much I like a particular pen (or anything else, for that matter). But I was asking primarily about function - which will, for me, include ergonomics.

 

To me, the best pen is one that starts right up when uncapped, doesn't skip, writes with very little effort, but maybe with just a little bite, and - very important, because I will write pages and pages at a time when I get going - the shape and weight of the pen have to make it not-fatiguing in extended use. If a pen has all that, my aesthetics tend to adjust.

As for function I demand that any pen in my stable write smoothly, doesn't skip, starts up right away.

Then there are factors, including:

 

-dimensions

-weight

-balance

-filling system and capacity

-nib feel and other characteristics - for ex} presence of slight nib feedback of some brands and the stubbish quality of MB broad and wider nibs.

-presence or absence of a step down from barrel to section

-shape and material of the section

-availability of in country customer service

 

So even with function, there are highly subjective factors, and for some, a Vector (not a bad pen) will simply not satisfy all of those preferences.

[Dino Silone]

With all due respects to Mr. Dubiel, the joy of writing with a fp is not simply the ability to make a line on paper for many. There are a huge number of other factors both functional and aesthetic. If you can get that combination for little money, great. But that doesn't mean a more expensive choice is any less valid, because tastes of function and aesthetics vary widely. What's important is that you love to pick up a pen and use it.

 

Technical problems can afflict any pen model. After a while you choose the brands that work best for you. Regardless of price, I would much rather have a pen that required a little adjustment, but one that I would love to use everyday than a pen that wrote ok out of the box, but was so boring that I would never want to pick it up.

I certainly agree with your first paragraph. As I said, I have some pens that I've restored so that they write well, but they don't scream out to me to make me want to use them. And I suppose I do apply a combination of functional and aesthetic criteria in judging how much I like a particular pen (or anything else, for that matter). But I was asking primarily about function - which will, for me, include ergonomics.

 

To me, the best pen is one that starts right up when uncapped, doesn't skip, writes with very little effort, but maybe with just a little bite, and - very important, because I will write pages and pages at a time when I get going - the shape and weight of the pen have to make it not-fatiguing in extended use. If a pen has all that, my aesthetics tend to adjust.

As for function I demand that any pen in my stable write smoothly, doesn't skip, starts up right away.

Then there are factors, including:

 

-dimensions

-weight

-balance

-filling system and capacity

-nib feel and other characteristics - for ex} presence of slight nib feedback of some brands and the stubbish quality of MB broad and wider nibs.

-presence or absence of a step down from barrel to section

-shape and material of the section

-availability of in country customer service

 

So even with function, there are highly subjective factors, and for some, a Vector (not a bad pen) will simply not satisfy all of those preferences.

This is a great list. All of the things on your list except for availability of in country customer service (I try to fix them myself, and if that doesn't work, they just go back in the drawer... no big deal with a $5 pen), are what I lumped together as "ergonomics" - but it helps to list them out separately. And I agree - the Vector writes dependably and well, but I don't find it comfortable for extended writing. The Parker 51, the Esterbrook Bell System J pen and a few of my 1950s and 1960s vintage Sheaffers, on the other hand, are as close to perfect on all these dimensions (again, except for in-country customer service, unless you count my workbench...) as I can imagine - a real pleasure to use.

 

But this is sort of tangential to my original question. Maybe to ask it in a different way: What, in terms of the dimensions we've talked about on your list, would I gain if I were to replace my Parker 51 with a $250 pen? My guess, based on the responses to this thread, would be "nothing".

[mdbrown]

Sounds alot to me like you are not a $250+ pen person. Not sure there is a better way to put it. I do personally think that some pens are incredibly high priced, alot has to do with being blue collar. Now, I will hopefully have a 149 one day so for me, it's worth what I have to pay to get one. For you, I can't imagine you'd ever want anything over $100 based on what you have posted here in this thread... cannot give you a tangible justification that will work for you...

[Silvermink]

My cheap pens just don't give me the same level of enjoyment, for the most part - it's material, design, quality of workmanship, and feel of nib (mostly in regard to the amount of spring and resultant line variation). The nib is the most important thing, but I'm really drawn to pens that are visually interesting and pleasant to hold and that incorporate interesting materials like celluloid.

 

I'm also really into textures, so I like pens like the Lamy 2000 and the Pelikan M640 Sahara that are texturally interesting. One of these days I really need to get a bakul-finish Varuna.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Silvermink

[Claver]

For those who understand no explanation is necessary, for those who don't no explanation is possible.

 

+1

 

It's just something that you want--Everything else is just details.

[Dino Silone]

My cheap pens just don't give me the same level of enjoyment, for the most part - it's material, design, quality of workmanship, and feel of nib (mostly in regard to the amount of spring and resultant line variation). The nib is the most important thing, but I'm really drawn to pens that are visually interesting and pleasant to hold and that incorporate interesting materials like celluloid.

 

I'm also really into textures, so I like pens like the Lamy 2000 and the Pelikan M640 Sahara that are texturally interesting. One of these days I really need to get a bakul-finish Varuna.

Actually, this is a very good answer. I would argue that the materials and quality of workmanship on the Parker 51 are as good as they need to be for its intended purpose - it's put together with precision, it feels wonderful in the hand, the lines are clean and utilitarian, it has the perfect thickness and heft ... I'd have a hard time imagining a pen that would feel better in my hand. The 51 I have worked perfectly without any tweaking, even though it's probably half a century old - and the pen was certainly not coddled. I got it at a flea market, in a $2 junk bin.

 

But your nib argument is interesting - I've never written with a nib that did all those things you mentioned. My use of pens is pretty much limited to taking notes at work, or on books I'm reading, or to making shopping lists and to-do lists, and lots of writing. When I'm really in the writing zone, the last thing I want to think about is my pen - I want it to write very quickly, legibly (to the extent that I'm capable of making it do that), dependably and effortlessly. It shouldn't give me writer's cramp, even after writing many pages. A fountain pen that's working right does all that better than a ballpoint, though a rollerball probably does it just as well as a fountain pen.

 

But there is an intangible quality that the fountain pen brings to the table, that makes it preferable to the best alternative, even to someone like me, who's mostly practical about it. I like the idea of using older technology - even when it's new. I particularly like bringing something that was left for dead back to useful life. So maybe I "get" the mystique factor, after all - it just works differently for me.

 

I can relate to the idea of taking pleasure in the formation of the letters, in being able to control the line variation - some of my dip pens have very flexible nibs that allow all that, and they're fun to write with when the objective is to create something to look at. I don't look to a fountain pen for that, though - but that's just me. There's room for all of us in this world. At least I won't be driving up the price of your Varuna!

[nxn96]

Price and quality are often related, but one is not always assured by the other. I've been pleasantly surprised by the performance of a Hero 616 and somewhat unimpressed by a MB. Maybe I got lucky with the Hero and not so much so by that particular MB.

 

In other threads, I've responded to complaints about the venerable Parker 45 by noting that the 45 was designed and intended to be a lower-end (well, for Parker) school pen that became, over its lifetime, a reliable c/c pen that appealed to a number of price points. However, it's important to keep in mind that the 45 was never sold as the premium pen in the line; so, if your 45 doesn't write with the same "feel" of your "51" or 75, well, it wasn't meant to.

 

Value can be found at the bottom end just as disappointments can be found at the upper end. Finding what's right is what's important.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I chase semi-flex nibs.

 

I've been very lucky and gotten good vintage pens with real good nibs for $45 and under....gotten a number that had good second tier nibs, also.

I've gotten good second tier nibs, for $30-35.

 

I have some grand nibs, for $60-70-100. I've also gotten great nibs for $35...depends on the luck of the draw, to what I paid for a pen.

 

A good nib will have a good pen attached to it, a grand nib a grand pen....and that don't mean it must be a MB.

I have a Pelikan 140 OB and a 400NN* OF with grand nibs, a Geha 725 and Geha 790 KM, all grand nibs...nip and tuck with my 1 1/2 tier MB 234 1/2 Deluxe* KOB (1952-55 only)

 

Many of my second tier semi-flex nibs are quite good actually, but there is that tad of difference.

Degussa and Bock are not necessarily second tier nibs.

 

* Part of a four pen lot, a '56 Pelikan FP-BP-MP set and etui and the MB for € 170.

 

I have been very lucky with getting a lot of nice to very nice Vintage pens/nibs relatively cheaply.

[Blade Runner]

With all due respects to Mr. Dubiel, the joy of writing with a fp is not simply the ability to make a line on paper for many. There are a huge number of other factors both functional and aesthetic. If you can get that combination for little money, great. But that doesn't mean a more expensive choice is any less valid, because tastes of function and aesthetics vary widely. What's important is that you love to pick up a pen and use it.

 

Technical problems can afflict any pen model. After a while you choose the brands that work best for you. Regardless of price, I would much rather have a pen that required a little adjustment, but one that I would love to use everyday than a pen that wrote ok out of the box, but was so boring that I would never want to pick it up.

I certainly agree with your first paragraph. As I said, I have some pens that I've restored so that they write well, but they don't scream out to me to make me want to use them. And I suppose I do apply a combination of functional and aesthetic criteria in judging how much I like a particular pen (or anything else, for that matter). But I was asking primarily about function - which will, for me, include ergonomics.

 

To me, the best pen is one that starts right up when uncapped, doesn't skip, writes with very little effort, but maybe with just a little bite, and - very important, because I will write pages and pages at a time when I get going - the shape and weight of the pen have to make it not-fatiguing in extended use. If a pen has all that, my aesthetics tend to adjust.

As for function I demand that any pen in my stable write smoothly, doesn't skip, starts up right away.

Then there are factors, including:

 

-dimensions

-weight

-balance

-filling system and capacity

-nib feel and other characteristics - for ex} presence of slight nib feedback of some brands and the stubbish quality of MB broad and wider nibs.

-presence or absence of a step down from barrel to section

-shape and material of the section

-availability of in country customer service

 

So even with function, there are highly subjective factors, and for some, a Vector (not a bad pen) will simply not satisfy all of those preferences.

This is a great list. All of the things on your list except for availability of in country customer service (I try to fix them myself, and if that doesn't work, they just go back in the drawer... no big deal with a $5 pen), are what I lumped together as "ergonomics" - but it helps to list them out separately. And I agree - the Vector writes dependably and well, but I don't find it comfortable for extended writing. The Parker 51, the Esterbrook Bell System J pen and a few of my 1950s and 1960s vintage Sheaffers, on the other hand, are as close to perfect on all these dimensions (again, except for in-country customer service, unless you count my workbench...) as I can imagine - a real pleasure to use.

 

But this is sort of tangential to my original question. Maybe to ask it in a different way: What, in terms of the dimensions we've talked about on your list, would I gain if I were to replace my Parker 51 with a $250 pen? My guess, based on the responses to this thread, would be "nothing".

Nothing to you perhaps, but those differences are important to others.

[akugluk]

I'm getting two distinct impressions from this thread. First, that people on this forum are used to having to defend their pen purchases to non-enthusiasts, and second, that its not common for other people to be really interested in the personal details of a pen, or that maybe the question was too broad. I'm finding this fascinating, because as a complete newbie to fountain pens, I really do want to know what makes a $5 pen different from a $500 one. I have one old pen, i have no concept of what it is "worth" (except to guess that it wasn't high-end, based on where I got it). I like it. After using an expensive one would I ever be happy with it again? Probably depends on a lot of things, which is where the trouble is coming from. My main passion out in real life is acoustic guitars, and I imagine they offer a decent parallel. It's possible to get a perfectly adequate guitar for less than $200. It'll work fine, do pretty much the same things that a nicer one would, and it'll be much more indestructible than a delicate handbuilt one. The more expensive guitars aren't better just because they're pricy--you've got to figure out what works with your style. But pair the right person and the right instrument, and magic ensues. It's just easier to find that magic when the materials and workmanship are all deliberate and well considered.

As personal as a musical instrument is, a pen has to be even more so, to an admirer. Performing music is a public activity almost by definition, whereas the act and experience of writing is not easily shared.

[AltecGreen]

Some of these pens, like the Sheaffer Snorkels and Touchdowns, and the Parker 51,... even the Esterbrook Bell System pen are, for me, works of art - beautiful clean lines, a perfect weight (not to heavy, not too light), a perfect feel (not too skinny, not too fat). And they start right up every time, don't skip, write a beautiful smooth, wet (but not too wet) line ... I can't imagine how anything could be better, even if I had paid 50 times as much.

 

So I guess that's the question buried in here. What would make a pen worth 50x as much as a pen like those?

 

 

There is no one answer as to why a pen is 'expensive'. Secondly expensive is relative.

 

You mention the Parker 51. One reason the 51 can be found so cheaply is because they were made in huge quantities and they lasted. Millions were made and many survived to meet dwindling fountain pen demand. Simple economics. Same for the Sheaffers and Esterbrooks. But go look for a LeBouef or Chilton and you will find a different story.

 

Consider these Parker 51s as examples.

 

Nassau Green 51 with Empire cap

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5054/5463780117_67fe4a6980.jpg

 

The Mustard 51 set with empire cap, demo 51, and the flighter

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5211/5464379574_13d101a66f.jpg

 

Flex Nib Parker 51

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5255/5430455234_e07695edaf.jpg

 

 

All of these Parker 51's I'm sure would be considered expensive. The Nassau Green pen sold on Tuesday for over $2440. These pens are expensive because they are rare and rarity is a powerful driver for prices. So is historic value (see third Parker above). Vintage pens can be funny that way.

 

In other cases, the materials and workmanship are expensive. Precious metals and gems add obvious cost to a pen. A pen like a Japanese maki-e masterpiece requires the hand labor of a master for 6 months to a year. Thus a price tag often are in excess of $20k. These are both functional as well as art. The cost is the cost. The value can only be assigned by the buyer.

 

Two similar pens can have a vast disparity in price. A high volume injection molded pen versus a celluloid pen turned from solid bar stock. They may look the same and write the same but the celluloid pen will be more expensive than the injection molded pen. I personally would buy the celluloid pen because I value the celluloid even though it is more expensive. My values not yours.

 

Finally, we all have different reasons for buying a pen. I buy some pens for the way they write, some for their aesthetics, some because of historical significance, some for to complete a set, and some for other strange reasons. For each of these reasons, I would be willing to pay a different price. It all depends on the pen.