Is There A Real Difference Between "never Been Inked" V. Very Mint Condition?

[horolographer]

Hi All

I am rekindling my desire for MB limited edtions but I wondered about this question. There are pens being sold as never been inked and those described as very mint. I take that to mean that it has been inked or even used but well loved and cared for.

Is there a custom usage for such phrases to mean something - so that there is a real difference - hence the difference in prices or is there no real difference in reality to the buyer?

 

ALSO, if anyone can advise me, what is the financial difference between Never Been Inked (or Brand New in Box) v. Very Mint? Is it 10, 20,30 or higher % in sales price?

 

Thanks for reading this and esp those who are able to advise!

 

Cheers

[bugmd]

You just need to ask the seller the specifics, all of these descriptors are suggestions, not laws. I consider a WE NIB even if it has been taken out of the box as long as it has never been inked or dipped. There are some that would NOT consider this NIB because the seals of the box have been broken. Your call, depends on what you want, what you are going to do with the pen and how many $$$$ you are willing to part with. Since I use my pens I love to buy "previously loved pens" and often do not care about boxes and papers. If I can save a few hundred off the cost of a Twain that has been dipped at a shop, no boxes but still has the nib size sticker applied then I am all over it.

[handwriter]

Some collectors/experts object to using the word "mint". "Very mint" is even worst. Either a pen is mint or not, it cannot be "very mint" as it cannot be "very unused": either it is unused or not. For all I have seen and read, no serious vendor would use "very mint".

I would say that there is no universal usage of descriptions such as mint, etc. You have to become familiar with how a particular vendor use them. There are vendors out there for whom every single pen thay sell is "rare". Serious vendors who use "mint" mean never inked and like new, but I have seen some people on the bay who claim "mint" and then mention some defects that obviously are not compatible with such designation.

I would say that for limited editions many buyers expect never inked condition. However, it all depends on rarity: if it is rare enough, a used pen would reach high prices.

If you plan to buy LEs it would be advisable to purchase only from reputable vendors. Study their catalogs/listings to understand how they rate their pens; some of them include a description of how they do it; that is: the meaning they attach to "mint", near mint", etc.

[Wyre]

The following applies to the collecting world... I believe that these should be fairly universal:

 

Mint: (This is a reference from the coin collecting world. "Never touched by human hands... Perfect in every way... just like it came from the Mint)

Untouched by human hands, never removed from the factory packaging. NO DAMAGES OF ANY KIND.

 

NOS (New Old Stock):

Never used, still in original packaging... although it may have been removed from the packaging for display purposes. NO DAMAGES.

 

Clean:

May have been used, but has been gently used, no real wear marks. NO DAMAGES.

 

Very Good:

Used, shows the usual wear marks associated with day to day use. Minor Cosmetic Damage. NO MECHANICAL DAMAGE.

 

Good:

Used, shows wear / scuffs of general hard use. Minor to Moderate Cosmetic Damage. NO MECHANICAL DAMAGE.

 

Fair:

Used, Shows excessive wear, or other possible cosmetic wear. Some minor repairable damage. Moderate Cosmetic Damage. May have minor Mechanical damage.

- This is also sometimes called a "Beater".

 

Poor:

Used, Shows excessive wear / scuffs / blemishes. May have moderate to severe damage.

- Usually used for parts only.

 

Parts Only:

Very poor shape, usually missing parts, Severe Cosmetic and Mechanical Damage.

 

 

 

This is the basic levels from the best to the worst. I agree that there is no such thing as "Very Mint"... Buyer beware!

 

 

Good luck with all of your auctioning! I do love a good auction both in real life as well as in the virtual world.

 

I have found that if you are dealing with a reputable seller, you can usually request high resolution pictures of the item.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Wyre

[talkinghead]

Is There A Real Difference Between "never Been Inked" V. Very Mint Condition?

 

 

Yes, ............Ink.................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry couldn't resist... :ltcapd:

 

 

 

Rick

[horolographer]

Thanks Gents, your inputs are deeply appreciated. Esp Wyre for clearing up the custom usage. I think there is a difference on how such phrases are used in watch collecting. So my opening post was wrong. I was trying to compare the descriptive difference between NOS (Never used, still in original packaging... although it may have been removed from the packaging for display purposes. NO DAMAGES) and CLEAN (May have been used, but has been gently used, no real wear marks. NO DAMAGES) according to Wyre's scale.

 

I am looking at the question from a buyer's point of view. Should it physically matter whether its NOS or if its CLEAN? Connected to that question is it matters (wish I knew why) is it proportionate to the higher selling price for NOS? I have seen some ads for MB LEs NOS at a very high premium over others that are described as CLEAN.

 

Physically, a pen is a functional product that is designed to work with ink so why is there a difference if it had been inked before? It seems to me even if it was "lightly dipped" once makes all the difference. I am not clear why that is so.

 

Then there is the question, how can I tell the difference (on inspection) whether the pen had in fact been dipped - if the description is that it had not been used before (i.e. NOS)?

 

Thanks again!

Edited December 24, 2010 by horolographer

[draeroheli]

Hello, I do not think you can tell whether the pen has been dipped in ink or not , from inspection alone, if the dealer has cleaned the pen properly.

 

What is the difference between Brand New Untouched pen and Mint Condition?

 

If the seller advertises the pen as "Mint Condition", I would assume that the pen has been touched for display purpose or even dipped in ink?

 

Very confusing terminology, perhaps the only way to be sure is that to ask the seller directly about the condition of the pen, rather than interpreting by the buyer!:blink:

 

Thanks.

 

Htin

Edited December 26, 2010 by draeroheli

[Pen Nut]

Beware! is my only advice on the condition scale. Your idea of 'mint' may well be a mile off someone elses.

 

"The following applies to the collecting world... I believe that these should be fairly universal" was quoted by another member but who, myself included, even knew this 'fairly universal' scale exsisted??

 

It may well be used with coins but to apply it to cars or pens or anything else can cause major issues at points of sale.

 

Be careful and get the feel of the person you are buying off before you commit. Genuine sellers have nothing to hide but 'micro scratches' are still there either way !

[Darius]

It may well be used with coins but to apply it to cars or pens or anything else can cause major issues at points of sale.

I agree. Coins have no mechanical function and are made of one piece, and the description of condition refers to the aesthetic condition only. For functional collectables, I guess, they should described in more detail regarding their aesthetics, functionality and parts.

[Blade Runner]

I'm always skeptical when I read mint/never inked used to describe a second hand pen. It may mean the pen doesn't write well, but since the seller says it's mint and never been inked, the seller is taking no responsibility for how the pen works. In this case it's always best to get a refund agreement, so that if an issue is discovered, I can return the pen. If the seller refuses, I won't buy it, unless I'm willing to pay for any repairs.

[Blade Runner]

I much prefer something like "gently used, works perfectly and writes and like a dream" from a trusted seller over mint/never been inked any day.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Blade Runner

[Blade Runner]

Factory sealed usually does mean mint, but even they can be faked.

[mohanjude]

The following applies to the collecting world... I believe that these should be fairly universal:

 

Mint: (This is a reference from the coin collecting world. "Never touched by human hands... Perfect in every way... just like it came from the Mint)

Untouched by human hands, never removed from the factory packaging.

 

 

I always chuckle on the comment 'Untouched by human hands' does that mean it was assembled by a robot? I understand the sentiment but surely somebody touched it to put it in the box. It would be more honest to say that since purchase it has not been handled or taken out of the packaging.

I find this description on high end gadgets such as mobile phones, PDA's and the seller has taken pictures of the device outside the packaging and with the device switched on!

 

I think personally unmarked would be the best description as it is the marks of use that ultimately make something look used if the packaging is pristine and there are no tell tale signs. Almost everything comes sealed and if you are the first person to buy it from a reputable establishment I rarely open the item before leaving the store. If I were to buy it used I think I would want to inspect the contents before parting with payment.

 

Mohan

Edited December 27, 2010 by mohanjude

[watch_art]

my favorite is MINTY. mmmm. leaves a good taste in my mouth. :roflmho:

[PAKMAN]

Since I usually purchase pens for use, I prefer not to spend the extra money for "stickered", "NOS", "Mint", or "Un-inked" pens. Because 10 minutes after I have it in my possession it will be inked and used so why waste extra money! Just my perspective. I have only purchased one LE NOS pen that I never inked. It was way under priced and I sold it quickly in NOS condition for a nice profit. However buying pens new for the purpose of speculation for later resale is a risky proposition.

[ArchiMark]

FWIW, as far as 'never been inked' goes, I'm very skeptical of this as I have purchased several pens that said 'never inked', but boy did a lot of something colored come out of the pens when i filled and flushed pen with water...as I always do when I get a new pen (new to me, could be new or used...)....

 

So, ask lots of questions of seller before purchasing if this matters to you....but even sellers can be naive about this, as they may have bought pen from someone else who used pen, but they never used pen, and then put it up for sale, not knowing if it has been inked or not...