Do More Expensive Pens Really Write Better Than The Cheap Ones?

[bindikah]

I am asking this question because I am a little disturbed at how much I like my pilot varsity, other disposables, and cheap pens when compared to my more expensive options such as the Lamy 2000, Pelikan M200, and VP to name a few. They seem to write just as well, if not a little better in my honest opinion. I'm kinda bummed because I want to want a more expensive aka quality writing pen but if I can be satisfied with really cheap/disposables than I guess that is a good thing...right? What's your experience?

 

ps. I should say I do appreciate the more expensive pens for qualities like piston fillers, better balance, and finishes but I am not really seeing that big a difference in the way the nibs are performing between cheap and expensive/steel or gold... Please keep in mind my definition of expensive is 100-200 dollars... Maybe I just need to try something way up there to experience the difference...?

[UCSF2012]

Nope. It's more expensive because they have fancier barrels. My best writers are about $40 each, and I have several in the $200+ range.

 

My favorite are Waterman's cuz they're relatively cheap and write really, really well. I have 2 Pelikan M6xx's and they don't write anywhere near the Waterman's. Pelikans just like to spit ink all over the page, it's disgusting.

 

Expensive = larger profit margin for manufacturers.

 

and sometimes stainless steel writes more smoothly than gold. It all depends on how calibrated the nibs are, not the material it's made from.

Edited October 7, 2010 by UCSF2012

[FarmBoy]

No.

[Marsilius]

I can't really answer that directly, and bet this has been on earlier threads, but here goes:

 

I try out nice modern pens in stores, and know the ones I like tend to be more expensive.

 

However, I almost always end up buying vintage pens because I like their nibs.

 

In THAT realm, I have gotten some lovely pens at an inexpensive price, because the pen was not "lovely" but the nib was great. I have had some more expensive ones that look nice, but don't write as well.

 

On the other hand, I also spend more on nice pens because I buy them at shops that have restored them, and I have a chance to try them out, avoiding ebay disappointment.

 

So, some of my best writers tend to have teeth marks and be no-name brands, and some of my other nice pens cost more because they came from a nice shop.

 

My personal statistic is something like a 60-75% corollary between cost and value, with a really large "wow, that really writes nicely!" quotient on some cheaper pens.

 

And, like most vintage folks, I tend to feel I get more for my money with vintage pens (including more leaks!).

 

Best,

Mars

[lsmith42]

Um... no...

[Parse Error]

Not necessarily.

[PatientType]

It really depends. You can have a very expensive pen that writes badly and a cheap one that writes well. Also, a pen fancier who really knows their stuff can find an old, scruffy looking Esterbrook for $6 and produce beautiful script. I'm not in that category.

The reason I pay several hundred dollars for a Pelikan M1000 is that it provides me with a writing experience that is remarkable. I do own a couple of $3 Chinese pens and, believe me, there's no comparison.

[Ipno Tizer]

Not necessarily.

 

I would agree. More expensive pens will not necessarilly write better than cheap ones. Modern manufacturing technology is more than up to making an polishing components the size of a fountain pen nib and doing do very cheaply. After all if that were not the case how would they manifacture ball bearings small enough an cheaply enough to make billions of low cost ball pens?

 

But:

1. The nib quality can vary in cheaper pens. Some will write as well as an expensive pen but others from the same maker may be good enough but no more than that.
2. More expensive pens may well last longer. This is certainly not true in all cases. Even low end Parkers and the Poilot 78Gs are solidly made. But I've got some low cost pens that are developing cracks after only a year or so.
3. More expensive pens are likely to be made from high quality stainless steel or corrosion resistant precious metals. This could be important if you intend to use iron gall inks. But again this is not universally true, the Pelikan M200 range have non stainless nib components according to reports on this forum.

Chris B.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Ipno Tizer

[AlecG]

the short answer would be no, not necessarily.

 

The long answer is already in your post. a cheap pen will use a converter at best or otherwise a cartridge. The mechanism and materials are kept cheap, which makes the pens very economical and still useful.

Just look at a Lamy Safari, decent pen, writes always, made pretty well with good quality materials and is for a lot of people a very, very good pen. And you can't get more bang for the buck than a Heron, Safari or the likes.

 

But when you go up the scale and look at a Sailor 1911 Realo, fitted with a Naginata Togi nib or a Cross Emperor, and you compare them, there is a significant improvement in the way it handles, feels and writes.

The same applies to a Pelikan M-series pen, although the M200 is much more economical. Other pen's that are reliable and have proven themselves like the more expensive Pilots & Namiki's, Parker's Duofold series,

and (the IMHO strongly overrated and overpriced) MontBlanc's 146 and 149's.

 

On the other end of the spectrum you have limited editions. I just don't understand those pens. Most of them are just the same as regular editions, but in a more luxuries material. Well, I dare to argue that a red acrylic material with a Ferrari logo isn't that more luxuries than a black acrylic material with just the pen-makers logo. I do have a limited edition myself as well, a Wall Street LE from Visconti. But I wanted that one because it has a very nice piston-system that is quite unique. But it's my second worst writer after an old Omas Extra Paragon that has a badly tuned nib with misaligned tines.

So I would suggest when you are looking for a new pen to either buy a cheap pen that you don't need to look after very careful, or buy a good decent pen that is something you like (in design, nibs, material or functions like a double-chamber piston that has an airplane-safe-mode).

[SnowLeopard]

Sometimes. Less expensive pens are "engineered" to be more"trouble free, especially if they've been around for a goodly amount of time. Those who went out of business are testimonials to their poor quality & unsound designs, or poor fabrication. But, sometimes it just happens, there wasn't a good marketing plan, or distribution network...so they went away to the fountain pen burial ground to die anyway. We know examples of all these don't we? To continue, what we call vintage pens have just been discontinued, over the years, 4 various reasons...one being... the " crafters" who used a more "art-like" means had aged out( aka died) after their progeny eloquently laid the lines for the" modern" pen industry.... 4 another thing... their companies became less profitable as the cost of manufacture became so prohibitive as to not enable them to remain in the marketplace. Sadly many were sold to off shore conglomerates, to be sequestered in the depths of "Mount Doom". With tastes & styles changing faster than Houdini , and a dwindling fountain pen generation slowly giving up a Tolkienesque fight against the evil BP& RB rulers of Mordor ( aka...those who would commission weapons for Sauron),... demand feels like it's almost dwindled until almost extinction. If those great old master crafter's pens were manufactured by modern means, if in fact they could be produced by methods we use today,using the gold and other precious metals as in those vintages we all persist on loving, then the cost for nu-vintage might approach that of a really good quarter-horse. Miniature marvels they all are. Some... were more mini... or displayed their reliability with their groundbreaking designs and unique engineering, to be sure. So there is actually an answer here, however, every person should draw their own individual conclusion. If I give mine, then I, Aragorn, along with my Hobbits in arms ( aka pens) & Fellowship members might never be able to save "Middle Earth" from the clutches of Sauron's forces as they seek to enslave out souls forever .

Edited October 7, 2010 by SnowLeopard

[vans4444]

I agree with the other posts, the short answer is NO. However it does depend on your definition of “writes better”

 

If that is restricted to the actual writing experience, I would again say no. If it includes the other virtues of a pen such as the look, the amount of ink it holds, the easy of use, its resale value etc then the answer may be yes, but only up to a point.

 

I have quite a few cheap modern pens and I find them very forgiving, they can be left unused for a time and almost immediately start writing without any fuss. Those from the German pen makes tend to have very smooth nibs.

 

As has already been stated, if you add vintage pens into the mix, the answer is more complex. My best writers, having smooth semi flexible nibs are vintage pens that were bought from not a great deal of money.

[ikondave]

I think that the one advantage in buying the expensive pens is that you know exactly what you're getting. For instance, I purchased a Pelikan M800 , and although it looked great, was beautifully built and fit my hand perfectly, it skipped a little. I contacted the retailer and was told that the pen should never skip and was instructed to send it back to have the nib replaced. Since I got it back, the pen has made nothing but perfect lines for nearly a decade. So, I knew that I was buying quality materials and service. I have had similar stellar experiences with my Conway Stewarts. With those pens I know that they will have a rich appearance and awesome nibs. I also know that with proper care, my sons will be using those pens long after they've done away with me for the insurance money;-)

 

But like you, I have been using disposable Pilot Vpens and loving every moment. My wife gave me this no name, small size pen with a stainless steel nib, that consistently makes the highest quality very fine line I have ever experienced. Sadly, still I have no idea what it's called or where to order it's teeny little cartridges. She paid just under $10.00 for it at an art supply trade show.

 

My personal experience with the sub $100 office supply/ drug store Watermans, Parkers, Crosses and the like has been uniformly bad. I have no idea if it's me or if other folks have had the same kind of luck.

[ag273n]

generally, no.. :hmm1:

the more expensive ones IMO are just more fancy than the cheap ones..

 

i have a parker vector that writes a lot better than my parker sonnet..

[AlecG]

Reading all this, why do we still buy expensive pens?

Or am I an exception when I have three Sailors (not cheap at least in my book) several Pelikan's 1931 and a Visconti.

These six pens have a new price that easily totals €3700.

It would buy you a lot of Safari's or Hero's...

Edited October 7, 2010 by alecgold

[vans4444]

Reading all this, why do we still buy expensive pens?

Or am I an exception when I have three Sailors (not cheap at least in my book) several Pelikan's 1931 and a Visconti.

These six pens have a new price that easily totals €3700.

It would buy you a lot of Safari's or Hero's...

 

What a very good question and not one I can answer.

 

I guess it has something to do with the same drive that causes people to collect pens, or anything for the matter. It is certainly not a decision based on utility or need. I would have thought that any rationalisation would be an attempt to rationalise a desire that existed before the rationale. Does that sentence make sense? What I mean is I think the desire for the object comes first. This is then followed by the rationalisation of the desire (if needed).

 

In addition I think status might has some influence, but I am not really sure how that works with pens because the expensive pens are often hidden away in a collection that might only be seen by the collector. If the pens are used in public, most people would not have any idea of the value and therefore the implied status of the user. I am really confused about this.

 

Edit - perhaps Kudos would be a better word than status.

Edited October 7, 2010 by vans4444

[Bo Bo Olson]

I echo Vans444 and Marsilius. Actually most of what was said I can agree with...from my limited view of 'cheap' pens.

 

Even today as in the past a cheap pen must be able to write adequately. A better pen has better material and better balance. The nib might or might not be any better.

A top of the line pen, must be better that the rest of the line, or folks will buy some one else's top of the line pen.

 

Modern nibs are not up to snuff.

What is cheap, to one is expensive to another.

 

For me my wallet screams at $100, whines at $70 and groans at $50. Others have more sensitive wallets. Others have Elephant hide wallets.

 

An Esterbrook is the greatest cheap pen ever made. That it has doubled in price in the last year from @$15 to $30 has taken it out of the modern cheap pen list. Everyone should have a couple, they are worth having.

 

I have some 'vintage' old cheap 'no name' German piston pens. I have some with half a name, and I have some with a name.

 

It's nib first, pen second.

Modern nib are not as good as 'Some of the nibs' on old used pens, the Vintage pens.

I chase semi-flex and slightly flexible nibs. I gamble on Ebay, instead of paying more for a sure thing.

 

Edison will make you a semi-flex nib or more flexible if you pay for it. I remember reading that Omas, Delta and perhaps Aurora still make semi-flex nibs. I don't know. They are out of my range.

 

Modern nibs are made for ball point users, they don't dance.They don't break easy either.

 

The best the MB's, the 800-1000 Pelikan and that level, have springy nibs. That is a class lower than semi-flex.

 

I am sure that that class of pen makes a springy nib, that is better than some of the lower class semi-flex nibs I have on some of my under $30 Vintage pens. I have only tried an '80's 800 which by all accounts is a better nib than the modern 800's. I like it.

 

I am not impressed with my Cross steel nibbed Townsend.It is a nail. Some folks like nails. I like semi-flex.

When I think enough, I have some cheap pens. I have a Parker Flighter. I don't use it. I have a HauHong, that is actually very well balanced. It too don't get any use...nail. I had a Waterman Graduate...I sold it.Sheaffer Sentry; a nail, sold it. Diplomat..nail, sold it.

 

 

I have Reform 1745...F and EF. That EF is better than the nail I have on an MB 320 from the '70's. I have a Reform P-120 and P-125. For the money they are right on. I will be sending them off to my godson. I have better. If I didn't I'd keep them. The fountain pen to lend.

Go to German Ebay and buy two for one at @ $7.00. Don't get caught in a bidding war. The German market is saturated with them. They have them coming up every two hours. A great buy. Screw off the nib, put a toothpick's end of silicon grease on the edge of the piston. That is a great cheap pen, that writes adequately.

 

I do not think of a Pelikan 200 as an expensive pen. It is an inexpensive pen, not a cheap pen. You are getting what you are paying for.

 

I have second hand '90's 400 tortoise regular flex M,(bought at a live auction for € 70, or $110) and a 400NN OF with an F-1 'barely' flexible nib. A new 400 is an expensive pen. I'd not buy one. (You can get them second hand and they are still quite good.)

 

The new 400 don't have the nib of it's older brother from the '90's or it oldest brother's from the '50s. Neither does the one from the '90's. I've no real complaint's about that 83-97's nib, though. I use the pen often enough.

 

I have a '70-80 Pelikan 100 that is much in the same class as a 200, it is not in the same class as a 400. I don't have a nib for it yet. I'm talking of the feeling between it and the better, 140 or the two 400's.

I have a wonderful Pelikan 120, the school pen, it has a great writing regular flex F nib. It's nice enough, but not quite the feel of the next better class. Great nib...even if regular flex, a joy to write with...

I have the 'middle class' Pelikan 140, and it is a bit better than the 120 and a bit less (the green stripes are just a tad less classy) than the 400NN. (I'm a slow learner....yep, them green stripes on the 400NN classier than I thought)

The size was different too. The 140 has a wonderful semi-flex OB nib. My first one of the mythical semi-flex.

 

That nib made me chase only '50's (and later '30's) German pens in hopes of getting a fine writing nib.

 

The more expensive Modern pens I have are:

I have a modern 605 Pelikan, it's modern nib is ok, but not up to Vintage snuff; it has always been waiting to go off and become a Cursive Italic.

I have a Cross Townsend (nail) and a Lamy Persona (nail)I don't like nails and didn't know what I was doing when I bought that Cross. I intend to swap in that 18 K nail on the Lamy for a 14 K nib. I had not expected the 18 K to be a nail...it was second hand so couldn't be swapped. I'll get out to Lamy one of these days and swap it in for a 14 K.

 

Vintage pens; I have a slew of them, many were the cheaper pens, most I got cheap. A case of beer or under two cases of good beer cheap. Some, or many have semi-flex nibs.

There is a difference between first class and second class nibs, be it semi-flex or regular flex. I still enjoy the second class semi-flex where I do not enjoy second class regular flex. Some times you or the previous owner paid and got better class.

 

I have some pens that cost a good dinner with a bottle of wine for one.

There is a difference in the quality of the nib. They have first class nibs, they are worked well, they have balance....and yep...most need a new cork...no big deal.

 

I can get if I don't go crazy, get a one time first class pen for $110 or less, some times only $75 or $50.

 

I have some Osmia's; three have the superb Supra nibs, in gold and steel, and there is no difference of better.

I have three of their regular semi-flex nibs. They are quite good nibs, but not quite Supra nibs.

Three are superb, either marbled or Chased, one is a first class pen by them, one a second class and one their lowest level. All are worth having because of the nib. The better ones are first class pens at cheap prices. I think the most expensive was @ $85. I won those gambles...knowing they would need a new cork.

 

My Best Pen, is a MB 234 1/2 Deluxe (made only in 52-55) with a great KOB nib, that will beat the nib of any modern MB.

Then MB made nibs for fountain pen writers.

All three Levels 14x, 2xx, and 3xx, used the same nib, just the 14x got a bit more bling.

The difference between a Deluxe and the regular 234 1/2 is a touch of bling. It has a great nib, great balance, a nice thickness. The regular 234 1/2 will write as good as mine, and cheaper; get one. I got mine as part of a live auction lot with the '56 Pelikan set 400NN, BP &MP, with etui and the MB for € 170 or @ $230. Oh yes I got my money's worth out of that deal.

(Well, when I get my Osmia's all re-corked, there will be a battle royal for number one pen.)

Good Golly Miss Molly, I lucked out big time, during the world cup and got a Geha rolled gold 725 Goldschwing (Gold Wing) my second best pen. Great balance, great nib, sleek looking. A joy.

Normally they go for twice as much.

No way a modern pen can match that. It was made to chase MB's, caught them too.

 

I suggest chasing refurbished Swan pens, for semi-flex or flexible nibs. You can pick you nib with the better Buy Now guys in England. What's affordable....$65 for black, up to $150-175 for gorgeous '30's pens.

I was chasing them, stupidly...on English auction Ebay, when those Osmia's popped up in German Ebay.

 

I'd just about bit the bullet and paid a buy now price for a black pen. I needed the nib. I have more than enough black pens, but for a great nib...I'll buy black. Black is cheaper than one with color, in Vintage.

 

Yes you should pay extra, for a pen that has been refurbished. A refurbished pen should last some 30 years, before the next refurbishing.

Chase the nib, a good nib will have an adequate pen attached.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[AlecG]

[i would have thought that any rationalisation would be an attempt to rationalise a desire that existed before the rationale. Does that sentence make sense?

 

It's a difficult sentence for a foreigner, but it does make sense!

 

There was a time when I was collecting fountain pens. I stopped collecting them about 5 or 6 years ago, sold most and kept four that I liked most. (The mentioned Visconti, 2 pelikans and a Sailor 1911 with Naginata Togi nib.) I always wanted a 1911 with piston because the converters of Sailor are not really big. When the Realo came out I bought it and a bit later I got a chance to buy a Cross Concord in a 1911.

So there is reason in this madness. Or am I now rationalizing my desire for the perfect fountain pen?

Well, to rationalize it even more I intend to sell one 1911 standard with a fine point and keep the 1911 Togi and Realo Cross Concord.

If I would rationalize even more, I could also sell the togi and the Visconti, sell 1 pelikan that is NIB.

then I would end up with my dream pen: Realo Cross Concord and a spare in the form of a Pelikan 1931 Gold.

 

But, well, FP's are a hobby of mine. I don't have many vices, but FP's is one of them. I don't drink, smoke or go out much, sometimes have a dinner with my wife at a not overly expensive restaurant and twice a year go to a movie because my wife likes it. So I think it's something I can (or think I can ) afford and enjoy.

Just like I said, what is the rationale in scribbling down costly pages of Crane's Thesis paper with noting worth keeping. In fact after scribbling I get them through the shredder.

But what the movies are for other people, sitting down, doing not much beside thinking and scribbling is a way to order my thoughts, relax and enjoy a simple thing.

10 years ago I would have smoked a big nice Cuban cigar, this is much healthier

[Apotheosis]

"Do more expensive pens really write better than cheap ones?"

 

pfftt.thats a myth.

Personally, the make of the nib far outweighs the price of a pen and I've had a few...pricy pens that were a complete dissapointment - not because of the pen in general, but the quality of the nib and how it lays down a line on paper.

I've been using my cheapie Steadtler Learner's Fountain Pen on a daily basis and it writes like a dream (sure, it's not great looking..but does that really matter?)

 

P/S : love the "elephant hide wallet" term Bo Bo !

Leo

[Fuddlestack]

Fine feathers make fine birds, but that doesn't mean they can fly.

[AlecG]

Chase the nib, a good nib will have an adequate pen attached.

 

I like a springy nib, I still have an old 1980's Omas Extra Paragon somewhere with a horrible nib that is springy/semi-flex but misaligned.

I could have it reworked by Richard Binder et al. but a springy nib takes a lot more time to get the ink dry.

And with the hasty life we live, an every day pen needs to be sturdy.

Sailor nibs are stiff, no doubt, and when I think back to the Omas I get a bit soft, but the Omas is a fragile pen with a fragile nib

that i would not dare to take with me on a daily basis.

On top of that most fine points I have tried, especially on cheaper pens are scratchy as a nails on a blackboard, most except the Sailor nibs

that are stiff as nails to some, but not scratchy as nails and though as nails on top of that!

Edited October 7, 2010 by alecgold