Expiration Of Inks?

[sallywally]

I'm wondering if my Cafe des Iles affected performance of several pens (all had previously been filled w/Nooder's Golden Brown but thoroughly flushed). The bottle is over a year old but I hadn't used an a long time. Now all are doing fine with Iroshizuku Tsukushi.

 

So do most inks get "too old" after a time?

[Strang]

I've been studying some solid matter in my old bottle of Cafe des Iles for some time as well. It's a few years old and I don't use it anymore. I look at it more as a science project than a bottle of ink.

[psfred]

It is possible. Usually the culprit is contamination, though, rather than chemical degradation, although that is also possible. Old style inks, since they were preserved with seriously nasty chemicals, are usually fine for decades. Modern inks are more prone to SITB ("stuff in the bottle") due to the more benign nature of the anti-microbials used.

 

Check the flow of the suspect ink off of a glass or plastic rod of some sort -- it should be slightly thicker than water, but not by much. If there are globs of ink colored slime, it's thicker than it should be, or has "islands" of white fluff on it, it's definitely bad. Ditto if it smells like rotting garbage.

 

However, it's also possible that it was interacting with the remnants of the Noodler's ink in the feeds of the pens in question. It's very difficult to get all the ink out, and I've had various Noodler's inks interact rather badly with other inks (goo in the case of Noodler's Bad Blue Heron and Quink Black, vintage, not modern, and chunky stuff with Noodler's Navajo improperly rinsed out of a pen later filled with Calligraphy Blue). Try your Herbin again after the Iroshizuku Tsukushi. It may be fine then.

 

Herbin inks are usually easily mixable and flow well in most pens, so I'd suspect either a reaction with the Noodler's or bad ink.

 

Peter

[sallywally]

Thanks, Strang and Peter, for your responses. I love the idea of ink as a science experiment!

 

I'll try both your suggestions, Peter. I do suspect the Noodler's slightly...or maybe it was my being just a tad too impatient to move on with new ink in these pens and not flushing that few more times. :embarrassed_smile: One reason I've not pursued Noodler's as much as I used to is because of its possible interaction with other inks if not completely flushed, and the inconvenience of having to be almost OCD about flushing so many times to get the nib to come clear.

 

I did like the Golden Brown, but not sure I'll use it again. My small handwriting didn't show off its multicolor shading as well as larger script, and I've been enjoying the rich colors and shadings of Tsukushi and Cafe des Iles a great deal.

 

Sara

[lapis]

To generalize, I'd say that most inks do not expire. Some of my Herbins are more than one year old and still in good condition. My very most favourites are of course much newer, but, hey, if I have any left-overs, I still keep them. Some of my vintage Skrips (Made in U. S. A.) are over 10 years old and still fine. MB issues inks which have an expiry date 5 years later than when they were manufactured (see the stickers on the bottom of the bottle and on an unopened box). But even MB inks as well as most others simply withstand longer durations.

IMO the only things which can make an ink cough out is a bad batch and/or a faulty maintenance like the sticking in of an awefully filthy/sweaty pen section, or leaving the bottle open for some time, being subject to snot and direct sunlight.

 

Mike

[Dave Johannsen]

So do most inks get "too old" after a time?

 

I regularly use Quink from the 1940s and Waterman's ink from the 1950s. How long ink lasts is pretty well a function of the air tightness of the container and storage conditions.

 

 

Dave

[mstone]

One reason I've not pursued Noodler's as much as I used to is because of its possible interaction with other inks if not completely flushed, and the inconvenience of having to be almost OCD about flushing so many times to get the nib to come clear.

Note that reactions between inks also occurs with brands other than noodler's. It is always good to be especially diligent in flushing when changing inks.

[sallywally]

"being subject to snot and direct sunlight." - Yuck! I think I've handled the ink fairly well - closed tightly, in its box, in a drawer far away from sunlight and bodily fluids....

 

I do try always to flush completely, to the point where water runs clear and the nib shows no trace of ink when lightly pressed in a towel, even if a mild ammonia-water solution is part of the process.

 

But if there are especially "bad" inks in this situation, I could do another pass anyway. I have some Sailor Jentle inks and I've heard they are a bit iffy. I also think some of them smell terrible! Other than that, Waterman's Havana, PR Chocolat, CdA Grand Canyon Brown, Iroshizuku Ajisai and Tsukushi, and a bunch of Noodler's.

 

Sara

[mge01park]

Interesting topic as I recently located some old Herbin bottles (scented and regular) from years ago (talking the late 90's)....for the scented a few had what I think was the original scent and a few had a horrendous smell; the non-scented ones seemed to look and smell okay but haven't tried them out. The other one which seems to be a okay was a special edition type that came in an ink well type bottle and was called Ink for Man and stayed nice, it's a dark purple color, going to use that one today.

Edited August 4, 2010 by mgepark

[pharmacist]

Iron gall inks kan be kept for years, provided they are sealed very well to keep air out from the bottle. There are some old bottles for more than 50 years and still without any sludge or sediment on the bottom. The reason is the usage of this powerfull preservative phenol and the acidity of the ink (hydrochloric or even sulfuric acid).

 

I made my own iron gall ink, but I found it safer to use salicylic acid instead of the dangerous phenol. The germicide action is sufficient enough to stop the grow of germs and moulds and the low pH value helps alot.

 

Just to report back my special iron gall "Urkundetinte" formulaton for fountain pen works incredibly well. No clogging, superb flow, almost instant dry when the ink touches the paper and darkens nice to a velvety black and complete waterproof.

[rollerboy]

I've been studying some solid matter in my old bottle of Cafe des Iles for some time as well. It's a few years old and I don't use it anymore. I look at it more as a science project than a bottle of ink.

 

Interesting. I bought a bunch of ink samples recently one of which was Cafe des Iles. Sloshing it around in the clear glass vial it was leaving solid specks of matter (that looked basically like tiny clumps of ink) stuck to the vial walls. I've yet to have a moldy ink, but this debris didn't look organic to me ... it wasn't stringy the way I understand mold grows. Anyway, the ink was forming some sort of sediment so I didn't use it in a pen. I contented myself with doing some swabs on paper with the sample.

 

Great colour and I'd like to buy a bottle someday. How long did you have your bottle before the solid matter formed?

[Margana]

There are bottles of J. Herbin Poussiere de Lune and Lie de The on my shelf that are at least five years old. No issues with either one. I am pretty careful to avoid contamination and store all inks away from heat and light. So far, so good.

[sallywally]

I'm wondering if my Cafe des Iles affected performance of several pens (all had previously been filled w/Nooder's Golden Brown but thoroughly flushed). The bottle is over a year old but I hadn't used an a long time. Now all are doing fine with Iroshizuku Tsukushi.

 

So do most inks get "too old" after a time?

Actually all are not doing fine; my Bexley Dragon with a Masuyama tweaked nib, which has been absolutely wonderful, will not take Cafe des Iles, Tsukushi, or CdA Grand Canyon Brown without globbing when I write. I've flushed is manaically! I'm afraid I may have to replace the nib and have Mike "fix" it again at the November pen show here in Columbus.....

[lapis]

Hmm... I'd say it has to be your pen and nib because I've used all of those inks in several pens, without any problem at all.

 

Mike

[sallywally]

Hmm... I'd say it has to be your pen and nib because I've used all of those inks in several pens, without any problem at all.

 

Mike

Yep, I think so too.

 

I also had a little trouble with my Nakaya Ascending Dragon when I followed the Golden Brown with a Platinum Brown cartridge....very tight flow. I've flushed again and am going to put Tsukushi into the converter tonight. Sigh.

 

I'm paranoid, but hopeful, since the other Nakaya nib came through fine.

 

Sara

[sallywally]

Hmm... I'd say it has to be your pen and nib because I've used all of those inks in several pens, without any problem at all.

 

Mike

Yep, I think so too.

 

I also had a little trouble with my Nakaya Ascending Dragon when I followed the Golden Brown with a Platinum Brown cartridge....very tight flow. I've flushed again and am going to put Tsukushi into the converter tonight. Sigh.

 

I'm paranoid, but hopeful, since the other Nakaya nib came through fine.

 

Sara

Yippee! The Ascending Dragon is great! :clap1: :roflmho: