Why Sterling Silver Looks Brown?

[jszh]

I got this pencil on ebay. It was hallmarked sterling silver (1935 London, the seller said) but the barrel looks pink or brown. Is it because the brass content interacted with skin and charged colour? If so I suppose there is no way to get rid of it. BTW, I saw plenty of Eversharp pencils on ebay. What is the everage value of them? The YOL seems more desirable and expensive.

Edited July 9, 2010 by jszh

[jar]

Sterling will turn near black over time. Perfectly normal and completely reversible. Just polish.

[welfvet]

The one possible negative could be that the pencil is only plated and that the brass that usually lies beneath is showing through. However, this looks to me more like it is a genuine sterling silver (ie solid, not plated) pencil which has naturally become a bit tarnished. This polishes out very easily with Goddards (or similar) silver polishes / polishing cloths. Available in the cleaning products section of most supermarkets and of course jewellers (probably at a premium). Avoid Brasso and other polishes not designed for silver.

 

With regular use sterling silver is less likely to tarnish and once cleaned it is easy to just give an occasional wipe with a silver cloth to keep the shine up if required. The scratches will however stay unless it goes for a polish at a jewellers, and that might take away some of the 'patina' that makes it an obvious vintage item.

 

Great buy if it is sterling.

 

 

[jszh]

Thanks, guys. I was trying to learn how to identify the hallmarks and checked out this website. But honestly I couldn't figure it out from the third picture of that item on ebay. If it is "1935 London", I assume the last mark is the "DUTY MARK: Jubilee 1934-1935 George V and Queen Mary". The first two marks are "LONDON ASSAY MARK 1923-1935

Date letters Gothic Script h i k l m n o p q r s t u". What is the one in the middle? There seem to be some letters before the four marks too.

[Ipno Tizer]

The way to be cretain is to check to see if it has a halmark.

 

Plenty of information (probably too much information in fact) about British Hallmarks can be found in this document from the Assay Office of Great Britain:

 

http://www.fountainp...er-looks-brown/

 

All British hallmarks are combinations of odd looking symbols. Legend has it that the directors of the Sheffield and Birmingham assay offices agreed to meet to discuss how they would indicate who had assayed what item. Being gentlemen, they agreed to meet each other halfway, so they met half way between Birmingham and Sheffield. And being English, they met ... in a pub! The pub was called the Crown and Anchor. And to this day the crown has been the sysmbol for the Sheffield assay office and the anchor for Birmingham.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Ipno Tizer

[welfvet]

Nope, now you're operating waaaay out of my league. Hall marks are pure hieroglyphics to me. Maybe a lion might be recognisable, then it's all down hill.

[jszh]

Thank you, Ipno. You posted a wrong link for the Assay Office. Could you please post it again?

 

 

The way to be cretain is to check to see if it has a halmark.

 

Plenty of information (probably too much information in fact) about British Hallmarks can be found in this document from the Assay Office of Great Britain:

 

http://www.fountainp...er-looks-brown/

 

All British hallmarks are combinations of odd looking symbols. Legend has it that the directors of the Sheffield and Birmingham assay offices agreed to meet to discuss how they would indicate who had assayed what item. Being gentlemen, they agreed to meet each other halfway, so they met half way between Birmingham and Sheffield. And being English, they met ... in a pub! The pub was called the Crown and Anchor. And to this day the crown has been the sysmbol for the Sheffield assay office and the anchor for Birmingham.

[InkyCarl]

Silver just does that, sterling or pure. If you want that white silvery look without eventual tarnishing, look for something plated with rhodium or platinum. I kind of like the slightly toasted look of real silver, but it does get too dark after a while.

[ANM]

I don't know how long that style of mechanical pencil was made in England, but 1935 would be too late for a pencil of that style to have been made by Eversharp in the USA. The started making that desibn in 1914 and changed to a more "mocern" style around 1930.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I have a Silver Cross hatched* Parker-75 FP and MP set.

*Bought @1970 before the fancy French name that I can never remember, became popular.

 

It actually looks silvery-gray, because I don't want to polish it, in I might get rid of the dark between the little squares. Then I'd have to wait for the creases to age back to black (back to step one), or get some sort of sulfur compound to rub in and rub out, to get the black back again.

 

Slightly "tarnished?" Silvery-gray (Old Silver), can never be confused with SS, or even plate.

 

Just checked the difference between a Silver Plate pen and that P-75. The Plate one looks good silvery; a different color than chrome or SS, but the under polished P-75 looks Old Silver, and much better...IMO...

 

 

I saw a silver P-75 like mine, that the single owner had always kept polished up like silver, and the cross hatching was not to be seen in the photo for sale, and it didn't look good.

 

How much of the silver's patina do you wish to hold on too. I'd suggest minimum polishing, as a start. One can always polish, but patina requires it's decades.

 

IMO, your pen looks much better with Old Silver patina, than shinny made yesterday.

 

Just a thought...perhaps a jeweler can recommend a half way measure; if it really bothers you.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[stonezebra]

'Bo Bo Olson' said:

 

It actually looks silvery-gray, because I don't want to polish it, in I might get rid of the dark between the little squares. Then I'd have to wait for the creases to age back to black (back to step one), or get some sort of sulfur compound to rub in and rub out, to get the black back again."

 

You might try using a silver polishing cloth (came in a little red box and used to be sold at Walmarts and elsewhere). *Lightly* rubbed over the object it would only catch the high spots and the dark areas would stay dark. I've had mine for years and it still works great.

Edited July 10, 2010 by stonezebra

[ANM]

I polish my sterling 75 with simichrome polish. I spread a thin film on a soft cloth and rub it over then pen, then buff it off. It has never taken away the dark tarnish in the cisele detail.

 

edit. Pure silver does not tarnish but the copper in sterling does cause it to tarnish. Pure silver is very soft and could be crushed easily unless it is an overlay.

Edited July 10, 2010 by ANM

[handwriter]

I recently purchased a Caran D'Ache pencil, the model Ecridor Retro, they say it is made of silver and then plated with a thin layer of rhodium so it doesn't darken. And yes, darkening of silver can't be avoided.

[ANM]

What you don't want to do with sterling that has tarnish details is dip it in some kind of liquid cleaner like Tarnex

[Jeff L]

Thanks, guys. I was trying to learn how to identify the hallmarks and checked out this website. But honestly I couldn't figure it out from the third picture of that item on ebay. If it is "1935 London", I assume the last mark is the "DUTY MARK: Jubilee 1934-1935 George V and Queen Mary". The first two marks are "LONDON ASSAY MARK 1923-1935

Date letters Gothic Script h i k l m n o p q r s t u". What is the one in the middle? There seem to be some letters before the four marks too.

 

The seller has provided a reasonable interpretation of the hallmark.

 

The letters "W.E.Co" are the maker's mark, the silversmiths who made the overlay.

 

The marks are worn but the next mark appears to be a date mark which the seller interprets as a Gothic "U" which would be 1935.

 

After that is the Lion Passant which means sterling silver.

 

Then a really worn mark which may be a Leopard's head, which would indicate the London Assay Office.

 

Lastly, the Sovereign head indicating the date 1935, which is how the seller is arriving at his Gothic "U" interpretation.

 

There's lots of info about hallmarks on the web. For English hallmarks, I use this site.

 

 

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/4/5/5/3/0/webimg/386823516_o.jpg

Edited July 10, 2010 by Jeff L

[InkyCarl]

edit. Pure silver does not tarnish but the copper in sterling does cause it to tarnish. Pure silver is very soft and could be crushed easily unless it is an overlay.

 

Pure silver will definitely turn dark. And it isn't very strong on top of that.

[Ipno Tizer]

Thank you, Ipno. You posted a wrong link for the Assay Office. Could you please post it again?

 

 

The way to be cretain is to check to see if it has a halmark.

 

Plenty of information (probably too much information in fact) about British Hallmarks can be found in this document from the Assay Office of Great Britain:

 

http://www.fountainp...er-looks-brown/

 

All British hallmarks are combinations of odd looking symbols. Legend has it that the directors of the Sheffield and Birmingham assay offices agreed to meet to discuss how they would indicate who had assayed what item. Being gentlemen, they agreed to meet each other halfway, so they met half way between Birmingham and Sheffield. And being English, they met ... in a pub! The pub was called the Crown and Anchor. And to this day the crown has been the sysmbol for the Sheffield assay office and the anchor for Birmingham.

 

Er .. so I did. The correct link is here :

 

http://www.britishha.../hallmarks2.pdf

[ANM]

The pencil is made by Wahl Eversharp, so W.E. Co must stand for them.

[Ipno Tizer]

Great buy if it is sterling.

 

Below is a crop from your photograph:

 

If you look just to the right of the W.E.Co stamp there are three lozenge shaped symbols and a circular symbol. I'm certain this is a British Hallmark. The W.E.Co stamp is the sponsor's mark and is part of the hallmark.

 

The image is too indistinct to be sure but it looks, as far as I can make out, to be sterling silver hallmarked in Edinburgh.

 

So it looks like you have a great buy.

 

If you really want to be certain, you could check with a jeweller about cleaning.

 

I don't know how you would get the hallmark confirmed, but if you wanted to, you could always contact the secretary ofthe British Hallmarking Council via their website http://www.britishha...ouncil.gov.uk/. I'm certain he would be keen to let you knlw where to find expert advice.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I polish my sterling 75 with simichrome polish. I spread a thin film on a soft cloth and rub it over then pen, then buff it off. [b]It has never taken away the dark tarnish in the cisele detail.

[/b]

edit. Pure silver does not tarnish but the copper in sterling does cause it to tarnish. Pure silver is very soft and could be crushed easily unless it is an overlay.

 

 

So much for plan A...anyone know about that sulfur stuff?