How old is my Parker 51 Insignia?

[bolampaul]

I've just bought my first "51" and can see what all the fuss is about - I cleaned the pen out and it writes beautifully smooth (fine nib). It is a rolled gold aero, made in the U.K. and in very good condition.

The seller reckons it was made in 1949. Is this true and is it possible to date the pen accurately?

[gyasko]

Does it have a Parker "51" 9 somewhere? You might need a loupe to read the 9.

[bolampaul]

Does it have a Parker "51" 9 somewhere? You might need a loupe to read the 9.

Interesting, I've just checked under a loupe and can see a very small 9 at bottom of the barrel! Does this mean it's 1949 then?

Thanks Paul

[gyasko]

Does it have a Parker "51" 9 somewhere? You might need a loupe to read the 9.

Interesting, I've just checked under a loupe and can see a very small 9 at bottom of the barrel! Does this mean it's 1949 then?

 

I think we can safely say that the barrel was made in 1949. The nib probably has a date on it, too. I don't think it's worth it to check, but if you're doing something else with the pen, you could take a look.

[OldGriz]

Does it have a Parker "51" 9 somewhere? You might need a loupe to read the 9.

Interesting, I've just checked under a loupe and can see a very small 9 at bottom of the barrel! Does this mean it's 1949 then?

 

I think we can safely say that the barrel was made in 1949. The nib probably has a date on it, too. I don't think it's worth it to check, but if you're doing something else with the pen, you could take a look.

 

No we can't ... IF the pen is truly an Insignia and not a Signet the pen was produced after 1957 when Parker changed the name of the Signet to the Insignia... see page 49 of the Parker 51 book

Also the date code on the pen would be same as on any other Parker 51 made after 1941... it would be at the top of the body where the section screws in...

[gyasko]

Does it have a Parker "51" 9 somewhere? You might need a loupe to read the 9.

Interesting, I've just checked under a loupe and can see a very small 9 at bottom of the barrel! Does this mean it's 1949 then?

 

I think we can safely say that the barrel was made in 1949. The nib probably has a date on it, too. I don't think it's worth it to check, but if you're doing something else with the pen, you could take a look.

 

Also the date code on the pen would be same as on any other Parker 51 made after 1941... it would be at the top of the body where the section screws in...

 

Some people call that the top, some people call it the bottom. In any case it's next to the section. We'll have to ask the OP if it's there.

[bolampaul]

Sounds like I need to grab a copy of the 'Parker 51' book you mentioned. The seller called it an Insignia so I've no idea whether it is more likely to be a Signet. Is there a design change between them?

[OldGriz]

Sounds like I need to grab a copy of the 'Parker 51' book you mentioned. The seller called it an Insignia so I've no idea whether it is more likely to be a Signet. Is there a design change between them?

 

 

Therein lies the rub.... there is no real design difference at all.... the corporate lawyers had Parker change the name because there was already a pen from another manufacturer on the market called the Signet.... Just one of those little things that makes pen collecting such a wonderful hobby...

[gyasko]

 

 

No we can't ... IF the pen is truly an Insignia and not a Signet the pen was produced after 1957 when Parker changed the name of the Signet to the Insignia... see page 49 of the Parker 51 book

 

Aside from the issue of the essential identity of the Insignia & Signet discussed above, weren't barrel date codes done by 1959? I'm not certain about the Made in England 51s, but that's certainly the case with the USA pens.

[gyasko]

 

 

No we can't ... IF the pen is truly an Insignia and not a Signet the pen was produced after 1957 when Parker changed the name of the Signet to the Insignia... see page 49 of the Parker 51 book

 

Aside from the issue of the essential identity of the Insignia & Signet discussed above, weren't barrel date codes done by 1959? I'm not certain about the Made in England 51s, but that's certainly the case with the USA pens.

[sherbie]

according to what I've read (inc said book) and looking at the pens I own myself, the last year the UK dated P51's was around late 1955.

 

The oldest I have is dated from Q3 1955, but I also have a few others dated 1954 Q4 & 1954 Q3.

 

But I also have a P51 aerometric Insignia (1/10th 12K rolled gold, converging lines pattern, with a left hand oblique nib, marked "made in England 9".

 

Now the book says that P51 aeros werent even made in England until April 1950.

 

So does the 9 on these Insignia's signify mean 1949 or 1959?

 

cheers, Sherbie

[The finer points]

As far as I can tell, Parker must have still used single digit date codes on their English "51"s in the 50s.

 

I just bought an aerometric "51" (writing very nicely by the way) which has the inscription 'MADE IN ENGLAND 4'. The seller said it was bought in the 50s and it obviously wasn't made in 1944 so I assume it must be 1954.

 

I don't know when Parker started manufacturing "51"s in England (they may have done so from the beginning), but that information might shed some light on the subject.

[The finer points]

Sorry, I didn't read that last post properly. If no "51"s were made in England until 1950, the single digit codes must stand for a year in the fifties.

[gyasko]

Sorry, I didn't read that last post properly. If no "51"s were made in England until 1950, the single digit codes must stand for a year in the fifties.

 

Well, 1959 is well past 1955, which is the end of barrel date codes on UK Parkers. Either Parker made a few 51s in the UK before 1950 or barrel date codes ended later than 1955.

 

It would help to have more information about this pen. Is there a year on the nib? What about the cap? Clip? I think we need more clues.