Are Mont Blanc Pens worth it

[Gump]

I've had a total of two MB's, but I will contribute to the fray. One was 100% worth it (146) and one was not (144). The 146 suits me and was tuned up perfectly by MB's service department. It was a very good used price point and performs well.

 

The 144 was too small and I overpaid, i sold it to fund new purchases as soon as possible.

 

I would not hesitate to buy another MB in used condition, resale is easy and their service is very good. I had eyes in a beautiful Bach LE that I found on craigslist over the weekend, but was beaten to the punch.

[mrchan]

I do love MBs and I have a few myself. I think what makes me like it more than a lot of other brands in addition to design and quality etc, is that they make interestingly designed nibs. Unfortunately other brands such as Conway Stewart for eg, which I do like a lot of their pens, make every single pen with the same damn nib design! I really wanted a Sandringham that was superbly beautiful but the nib was so uninspiring that I couldn't bring myself to do that.

 

I think the nib thing is a big issue for me, I love beautiful and interesting nibs, and that is perhaps why I keep getting drawn to MB.

[Bananabender]

I don't know if Montblanc pens are better than other brands ,i love using mine,but

I do know that the brand Montblanc has been well marketed as an upmarket brand and has snob value in more than just pens and would be as well known in some places as say the nike tick or Gucci logo. Especially asian countries.

Where I live aside from parker and schaeffer upmarket ballpoints ,forget fp's are an unknown BUT everyone would know the mb logo that is prevalent on aftershaves ,leathergoods etc. as a quality product.

Is a nike polo better to wear than a Target

[ethernautrix]

It's really interesting how it's ALWAYS Montblanc that gets the bat. Never Montegrappa, though to me Montegrappa's far more "luxurious" than an MB. Or Nakaya, for that matter. I guess Montblanc is "mass luxury"?

 

It's always Montblanc, because it is the most recognized brand amongst the ballpoint and "do you have a pen I can use?" sets.

 

On those few occasions when people notice my fountain pen, no matter which pen I'm using, they ask, "Is that a Montblanc?" When I say, "No, it's a [brand]," they usually say, "Oh! Do you write calligraphy?"

 

The fact that people have preconceived notions about Montblanc (and the people who have a Montblanc pen) is the whole point of some pen nerds' refusal to own one or use it in public, wishing not to be perceived as a snob. Ironic, ain't it?

 

Me, I don't think of myself as a pen snob, even though I use very beautiful and expensive fountain pens. I don't recoil when proffered a ballpoint to sign a receipt, for instance. I take the pen and sign. No fuss.

 

But I do loves me my Nakayas. Does that make me a snob? I don't know, and I don't care. I know that I enjoy the look of my Nakayas and how they write. If others want to perceive me in an unflattering (or flattering) light simply because of my pen choices, that's their business.

 

Of the usual array of status symbols, the pen is probably the most innocuous amongst civilians. As I said before, those who "flash" their Montblancs around typically display other signs and behaviors that indicate a desire to impress.

 

Not that there's anything inherently wrong with wanting to impress. I love to be impressed. I want to impress - but not by the things I own and not for the sake of impressing, I would hope that's clear.

[Lady P]

ethernautrix,

You're quite right. But you know what? It's MB's own fault, and I don't feel sorry for it in the slightest. It chose to go after snobs who'll buy a pen just to show off, and thereby it lost a part of the pen-nerd market. As proud pen nerd, I'll take my business to Pelikan, thank you very much. I might also take it to some other brands, but definitely not to MB.

As for Nakaya and Montegrappa... Nakaya makes pretty pens. I don't quite understand why they're so expensive. I wouldn't want one even if price weren't an object though, because as I discovered when I bought a Pilot MR, a large step down between the barrel and section makes writing quite uncomfortable for me. As for Montegrappa... It's barely on my radar. I mostly associate it with that 50K monstrosity with a skull and snake (or was it a lizard?) that was recently discussed on this forum.

[ethernautrix]

 

As for Nakaya and Montegrappa... Nakaya makes pretty pens. I don't quite understand why they're so expensive.

 

 

Each pen is handmade by a man using a pedal-powered lathe. These gentlemen are all retired from their careers with Platinum, and the eldest is around 82 years old.

 

Once these craftsmen... I hate to say it... retire for good, let's say, Nakaya will end. This is what I've been told, anyway.

 

Luckily for us pen nerds, there are many pen brands and a huge range of prices. We can easily find the pens we love to use.

[GeneralSynopsis]

You have just got to love a poll with options for yes, no (qualified by a statement which is irrelevant to the question) and something else which is equivalent to a no. Specially when the majority cast their vote for the weasle worded option.

 

Also the "money" is not specific enough, does it mean list price or used price. I expect the former was intended but many of the posts refer to the latter.

 

.

Edited February 20, 2014 by GeneralSynopsis

[Lady P]

 

Each pen is handmade by a man using a pedal-powered lathe. These gentlemen are all retired from their careers with Platinum, and the eldest is around 82 years old.

 

Once these craftsmen... I hate to say it... retire for good, let's say, Nakaya will end. This is what I've been told, anyway.

 

Luckily for us pen nerds, there are many pen brands and a huge range of prices. We can easily find the pens we love to use.

 

How interesting! Well, as I said, Nakaya pens look gorgeous, and I hear the nibs are lovely, too. However, they're expensive for me, and I'd likely find them uncomfortable to use (because of the step down between the barrel and section).

[Blade Runner]

 

 

Of the usual array of status symbols, the pen is probably the most innocuous amongst civilians. As I said before, those who "flash" their Montblancs around typically display other signs and behaviors that indicate a desire to impress.

 

Not that there's anything inherently wrong with wanting to impress. I love to be impressed. I want to impress - but not by the things I own and not for the sake of impressing, I would hope that's clear.

Agree. If we are talking status symbols, houses, education, social circles, careers, cars, clothes, body weight, physical beauty are most touted in our society. Pens? Really?

 

As you said, nobody really takes much notice of pens in the absence of those other elements or behaviors - except for a small subset of a small group of people - those who are interested in pens. I've used a MB 149 (the big one) every work day for many years, and only twice has anyone said anything about about it, and those were the rare fountain pen enthusiasts!

 

Assuming a MB user is automatically a snob is fraught with problems. The user may have received one as a gift, bought one as a rare extravagance to mark a milestone, or is a pen hobbyist who may buy them second hand at affordable prices.

 

Even when someone buys a high end item to impress without being an expert about those items, they aren't necessarily bad people. Those items are sometimes elements of uniform to promote business. I have a lawyer friend, who like his colleagues, drive expensive cars for this purpose. He's a loving family man, religious, ethical, competent, hardworking, successful. You obviously have to look at the whole picture.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Blade Runner

[max dog]

Whenever a MB thread comes up, some people can't get past their pre-conceived notions of the brand as nothing more than a status symbol.

 

Visconti, Parker, Pelikan, Waterman etc all have their high end lines that can cost more than Montblancs. I can hardly believe Montblancs could have survived on just hype for the past 90 years, and still be the most recognized and successful pens in the world today.

 

Because of the universal brand recognition, outside of the very small fountain pen community, a fountain pen with the white bird splat will command higher resale value than any other. At an auction or high end antique dealer, if a tray of pens were to appear, I guarantee the Montblancs will be snatched up before any other brand pens. I've heard many high end auction or antique dealers that deal with art, jewellery, time pieces etc wont even bother with pens except Montblancs, and maybe Pelikans. I guess that is the benefit that goes with the brand.

 

But at the end of the day, Montblanc pens are high quality writing instruments with remarkable nibs. If people believe they are worth what they retail for, they buy it, and frankly MB still outsells most other brands, and I dont see MB boutiques going away, and in fact a new one just opened in my neck of the woods, so that must attest to something. If not, there are a lot of good used Montblancs and with Montblancs excellent support, it is easy to affordably restore them.

Edited February 20, 2014 by max dog

[GronK]

I voted yes. They are obviously worth it to some. Otherwise the company would be lowering prices or going out of business.

 

The higher end of any luxury market is a strange thing. I worked in the high end audio business at one time. A couple of young fellows came up with outstanding speakers (a pair of which I still own) and priced them at $3300. They competed very favorably with speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars. Industry gurus warned them that high end buyers would not take them seriously and they should price them higher. They wouldn't listen and ended up unable to get a toehold in the market. Bottom line is that in some niches a higher price is a desirable thing. It gives one bragging rights.

[Opooh]

 

ethernautrix,

You're quite right. But you know what? It's MB's own fault, and I don't feel sorry for it in the slightest. It chose to go after snobs who'll buy a pen just to show off, and thereby it lost a part of the pen-nerd market. As proud pen nerd, I'll take my business to Pelikan, thank you very much. I might also take it to some other brands, but definitely not to MB.

As for Nakaya and Montegrappa... Nakaya makes pretty pens. I don't quite understand why they're so expensive. I wouldn't want one even if price weren't an object though, because as I discovered when I bought a Pilot MR, a large step down between the barrel and section makes writing quite uncomfortable for me. As for Montegrappa... It's barely on my radar. I mostly associate it with that 50K monstrosity with a skull and snake (or was it a lizard?) that was recently discussed on this forum.

 

My dear Lady,

 

Montblanc pens were already expensive long before MB became a luxury brand. You could buy 3 Shaeffer Targa for the price of one 149. I remember, being a student at that time, my first 149 costed me a fortune, but at last I had a pen that suited my hand perfectly and not one of those midget pens I had before. When you are in search of an oversize pen nowadays and you don't like MB, well one way or another you will have to pay MB money to get it. Omas Paragon, Sailor King of Pens, Pelikan M1000, Visconti Divina Oversize, just name it, all in the same league.

 

Just one more thing, MB pays their workers decent salaries. And isn't it that what we want for everyone on this planet?

Edited February 20, 2014 by Opooh

[pajaro]

My dear Lady,

 

Montblanc pens were already expensive long before MB became a luxury brand. You could buy 3 Shaeffer Targa for the price of one 149. I remember, being a student at that time, my first 149 costed me a fortune, but at last I had a pen that suited my hand perfectly and not one of those midget pens I had before. When you are in search of an oversize pen nowadays and you don't like MB, well one way or another you will have to pay MB money to get it. Omas Paragon, Sailor King of Pens, Pelikan M1000, Visconti Divina Oversize, just name it, all in the same league.

 

Just one more thing, MB pays their workers decent salaries. And isn't it that what we want for everyone on this planet?

 

It's a dog eat dog world. If you want something, in essence you'll have to take it away from someone else. I think all those pens are overpriced. Thankfully my hands do not require large pens, so I have been delighted with the less costly 144. The paragon of C/C pens. Don't believe it? Try a Sonnet.

 

If MB could make the 144 in China and sell it for something more like what I paid in 1983 for my 144s, more power to them. So sad to take the jobs away from the Europeans, but, in the business world someone will acquire your company and kick you to the pavement. Same thing.

[GabrielleDuVent]

Montblanc can jack up its price... like Nakaya does, because it's hand-crafted. Pianos tend to be far less expensive considering its size than a violin because of this factor. If you want a decent classical stringed instrument, you have to get it hand-carved, which is a laborious task. Same with harpsichords. Pianos are mostly manufactured (even Steinways).

Craftsmanship is not something to be sneezed at.

 

 

shows how pens are manufactured, but Montblanc does this by hand. Each pen goes through over 100 steps and extensive inspections by the craftsmen. Here's a formula I found that seems to be used by quite a few folk who sell handcrafted items online.

[(time x $per hour) + 2(cost of materials)] x 1.1 = wholesale price
wholesale price x 2 = retail price

 

So let's say a Montblanc craftsman makes one pen a week (wild guess, from beginning to finish... they're probably faster), working 8 hour workdays, five days a week. They're professionals, so let's say they get paid something like $15 an hour. I'll randomly say that material cost would be $15. The wholesale price would be... $693. Double that and you get a whopping price tag of $1386.

 

Reduce the time to 3 days per pen. The price is still $858. That's still much more than the price I paid for my 146.

 

I know with the arrival of manufacturing the respect for hand-craftsmanship went the way of dodo, but it takes serious training to do anything that involves artisanship. Some go through training for over a decade. Pierre Herme apprenticed at age 14 and became a chef at age 20... and that was a very fast apprenticeship. His cakes (it's roughly about 4 inches in diameter) now cost 7, 8 euros a piece. I do lots of baking, but I'd never get to his realm of patisserie. I think MB streamlines the training so it's faster than that, but it's training nonetheless.

 

And have you seen the prices tagged on hand-painted porcelain? A measly demitasse can go for $300. Anything handcrafted commands a much higher price. It's an homage and respect paid to those who dedicated that much time to learn their craft.

 

If you don't see the worth of hand-crafted items, that's perfectly fine, but calling these people's efforts unworthy of the price tag is something else. If you want hand-crafted item and you can't make it yourself, then you have to pay the price or go without. I'm sure a French boulanger would find the price I pay for bread stupidly expensive, but he's a baker. I can't bake proper baguettes, so I'll have to pay the price for my inability.

Edited February 21, 2014 by GabrielleDuVent

[dragonaura]

Surely the price of materials would be higher then $15. I truly agree with the workmanship charge. I know craftsmen who are extremely good at what they do. However with the price of materials in any craft or trade being expensive and rising the buyers do not see this until they try themselves with premium quality materials. Factor in time siren making at a rate average wages (i.e. Not working for $1 hour) the cost rises. Many people don't see this and don't consider that it cost more with everything involved when compared to machine made or completed in a country where labour is cheap and materials are inferior

I do not own a MontBlanc. I would like to try one one day. I currently don't have the mindset where I am happy to dish out a couple of hundred to several thousand for a pen brand new or used however I must say that if I ever saw a pen being sold cheap enough that I could afford it sold by someone unknowledgeable I would buy it. But what are the chances of that.

Therefore this was a long way of saying that as long as it is made with skill by hand it is worth the money asked.

 

Montblanc can jack up its price... like Nakaya does, because it's hand-crafted. Pianos tend to be far less expensive considering its size than a violin because of this factor. If you want a decent classical stringed instrument, you have to get it hand-carved, which is a laborious task. Same with harpsichords. Pianos are mostly manufactured (even Steinways).

 

Craftsmanship is not something to be sneezed at.

 

 

shows how pens are manufactured, but Montblanc does this by hand. Each pen goes through over 100 steps and extensive inspections by the craftsmen. Here's a formula I found that seems to be used by quite a few folk who sell handcrafted items online.

 

[(time x $per hour) + 2(cost of materials)] x 1.1 = wholesale price

wholesale price x 2 = retail price

 

So let's say a Montblanc craftsman makes one pen a week (wild guess, from beginning to finish... they're probably faster), working 8 hour workdays, five days a week. They're professionals, so let's say they get paid something like $15 an hour. I'll randomly say that material cost would be $15. The wholesale price would be... $693. Double that and you get a whopping price tag of $1386.

 

Reduce the time to 3 days per pen. The price is still $858. That's still much more than the price I paid for my 146.

 

I know with the arrival of manufacturing the respect for hand-craftsmanship went the way of dodo, but it takes serious training to do anything that involves artisanship. Some go through training for over a decade. Pierre Herme apprenticed at age 14 and became a chef at age 20... and that was a very fast apprenticeship. His cakes (it's roughly about 4 inches in diameter) now cost 7, 8 euros a piece. I do lots of baking, but I'd never get to his realm of patisserie. I think MB streamlines the training so it's faster than that, but it's training nonetheless.

 

And have you seen the prices tagged on hand-painted porcelain? A measly demitasse can go for $300. Anything handcrafted commands a much higher price. It's an homage and respect paid to those who dedicated that much time to learn their craft.

 

If you don't see the worth of hand-crafted items, that's perfectly fine, but calling these people's efforts unworthy of the price tag is something else. If you want hand-crafted item and you can't make it yourself, then you have to pay the price or go without. I'm sure a French boulanger would find the price I pay for bread stupidly expensive, but he's a baker. I can't bake proper baguettes, so I'll have to pay the price for my inability.

Edited February 21, 2014 by dragonaura

[max dog]

Craftsmanship is not something to be sneezed at.

I agree. It's all about the craftsmanship which make Montblanc and other high end pens special and worth the higher asking prices.

 

While we are doing videos, here is another:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wegi5MH9Bmc&feature=player_embedded

Edited February 21, 2014 by max dog

[mirosc]

They're professionals, so let's say they get paid something like $15 an hour.

Well, please remember: they are working in Germany and so you should rather calculate with $50 per hour (salary plus non wage labor costs).

 

Otherwise I love keeping out of this discussion...

[Lady P]

Let's talk about craftsmanship for a second. Let's take Edison pens as an example.

Menlo Pump Filler with Steel Nib (XF, F, M, B, 1.1mm, 1.5mm) $350

Menlo Pump Filler with 18k Nib (XF, F, M, B ) $450

Richard Binder 14k Full Flex Nibs:

Fine - $85

XF, XXF, XXXF - $135

XXXXF - $150

(Prices taken from the Edison Pen Company web site.) So... One can get a Menolo Pump Filler for between $350 and $600, depending on the nib. This involves an unusual filling mechanism (Edison makes a number of other pens with different filling mechanisms, this is just one example), and one gets to choose the material and color (from dozens of available options), plus one can get some really unusual nibs (think of that XXXXF full flex nib!). And all this is done by Brian Gray (I think he has one employee) and Richard Binder. Yes, yes, I know that nibs come from JoWo. But they are individually adjusted. (And if I may add, one doesn't hear anywhere near as many complaints about nibs that came from Binder - or even those individually tuned by Brian - as about MB nibs.)

My point. Edison is a small, small scale operation. The customer gets a huge variety of choice. Brian will exchange a series of e-mails with his customers to make sure each person gets exactly what s/he wants. Now, I don't plan on buying another $600 pen any time soon, but if I really wanted a pump filler, with a color of my choice, and an XXXXF full flex nib, then yeah, I think it would be perfectly fair for me to pay $600.

Now look at MB. It makes a few basic pen models. (I'll say nothing about limited editions and such; those will cost you a good deal more.) One material, mostly in black, an occasional burgundy. That's about it. If I called MB and said "hey, do you think you could make a bright green 149 for me because I think it would nicely match the ink I intend to use with it?" I'd get laughed off the phone. And why should I get laughed off the phone? Because, my friends, MB is a major manufacturer with a few standardized models. Now can you explain to me again why Edison can undercut MB's prices...?

Edited for spelling.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Lady P

[JonSzanto]

Still? http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/emotes/eyebrow.gif

[Pterodactylus]

My dear Lady P,

 

I don't think that it make sense to argue further, as your opinion that MB pens are not worth it is fixed, no matter what somebody say.

 

Just a few final words.

Big companies have more overhead, more fixed costs, more legal requirements to fulfil than tiny ones.

 

Do you really want to compare such a pump filler with a piston filler?

 

How many pens does Edison sell and how many pens does MB sell?

So how many trouble reports do you expect to see from a tiny amount of customers compared to a huge amount of MB customers?

I guess even if every 10th Edison or R. Binder customer will complaint here (don't say that this is the case) and only every 1000th customer complaints you will see still more MB complaints.

 

The MB nibs are top notch, in house made, with a lot of manual steps, hand finished.

Their quality is exceptional (have to say that even I don't like modern nails), that every nib has an slight individual touch is for me a quality sign of handmade things, not a flaw.

 

Many complaints of users are IMHO not objectively justifiable, of course there are failures but not every complain is a nib problem.

Many users these days are very unexperienced (ham fisted ballpoint barbarians).

It might sound harsh but they can only write with FPs as almost all modern nibs are spherical unity nails which writes in almost every position also no matter how much pressure they use.

They don't want to learn to write with an unique expressive writing device, they want a rollerball like easy to use experience.

 

Let's take a closer look, luckily MB has still fantastic broad and oblique nibs with stubby character, but if such nibs are used by inexperienced users which are unable to write with an constant angle, they will most likely get troubles (and will complain).

They will have no problems with most other brands as they produce blobby spherical nails in all sizes.

I love Pelikan pens, but their current broad nibs are catastrophic, they produce a blobby fat line without any variation/character, but every ballpoint barbarian can write flawless with it (unfortunately most of the users already accepted that finer nibs also write without any character these days).

Is it the fault of MB? ....NO.....

 

 

Also I don't think you know how expensive labor is in Europe/Germany (even compared to the US), and MB use a lot of handwork to create their pens,

 

Let me give you an example, Austria and Germany are very similar labor wise, Germany is even more expensive.

Here in Austria (Germany is higher) we pay at a car garage in AVERAGE for a:

Mechanics hour 115€

Panel beater hour 144€

Car varnisher hour 146€

 

Finally I'd like to say that the material costs for a pen are irrelevant for its price (marketing indicate something different, but this is not true).

In your previous posts I got the impression that you think this is a significant part of the value.

It might shock you, but I estimate the material value also of your beloved M700 Toledo between 10 and 20 € total.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Pterodactylus