Are Mont Blanc Pens worth it

[Pterodactylus]

Indeed. Someone using a MB may be:

 

(a ) a snob;

(b ) a pen nerd;

(c ) someone who happened to get a MB as a gift and is giving it a shot;

(d ) someone who has a lot more money than time, who wanted to give fountain pens a shot, and who bought a MB because that's the only brand s/he's ever heard of;

(e ) something else, who knows what.

 

If I see someone with a MB, I'll wonder which category the person belongs to. If the person later turns out to be (b ), I'll be happy to have run into another enthusiast. In the meanwhile, I'll stick to brands other than MB for reasons I have already outlined.

It´s great when the world is easy to explain and there are easy rules to live and judge.

[Lady P]

Hey, you said yourself that you don't buy from Western companies that outsource to Asia. Why not? It's not like they make bad products. I mean, some do, some don't. And I won't give my money to companies that market largely to snobs. You gain one chunk of the market, and you lose another. It's life, and in life, there is no such thing as a free lunch. And you, Pterodactylus, can dislike me all you want.

Oh, and BTW, I don't have any Apple products. My computer is a Lenovo. That's the former IBM, which got sold to a Chinese company. So now I have a Chinese product: made by a Chinese manufacturer in China. Wonder where that puts me on your radar.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Lady P

[Pterodactylus]

No, not at all, I also used Lenovo notebooks.

 

I have nothing against Far East companies, I only don't like companies, which destroy jobs in their home countries/culture area to maximize their profit (for the sake of the stakeholder value), e.g. outsource their production to low-wage countries, still charge a premium and expects that the people in their own country/culture area still buy their products.

This has nothing to do with product quality.

IMHO companies also have a social responsibility for the people in their countries/ culture area, not only to maximize their profit.

I want jobs for me and our children also in the future in the western world.

 

This is my personal judgement, I'm happy when many people share it so that such companies feel it where it hurts.

But if you don't share it, it's also ok.

[Blade Runner]

 

And I won't give my money to companies that market largely to snobs.

 

Then you should not buy nice pens from the majority of brands these days who have precisely followed MB's luxury niche marketing strategy. Pelikan, Aurora, DuPont, Faber Castell, Omas, Montegrappa, , etc etc all sell very expensive, fancy pens including limited edition pens. Pelikan still makes low end pens, but that doesn't mean they can ignore the luxury market, and they don't. Those brands who didn't follow the luxury niche strategy in an age where ballpoints reign supreme suffered greatly. People like luxury, having something a little special. Maybe they can't own an exotic super car or mega mansion, but they may be able to own and enjoy a small luxury brand item.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Blade Runner

[Lady P]

I kinda agree with you, except that I see it more as state/government responsibility, and less as company responsibility. Introduce large protective tariffs so that those companies that try to take advantage of cheaper labor costs elsewhere see their profits evaporate when they try to sell back home. I'm cool with that. Of course, that's anti-liberal (for the Americans on this forum: I'm using the word "liberal" in the economic sense, nothing to do with gay rights and abortion).

I try to avoid buying from companies that market in ways that I don't approve of. Hence, I won't buy from MB. When people buy from MB, I can't help wondering which part of the MB product appealed to them (the quality of the product, or the image that MB tries to sell). Hey, there's no such thing as a free lunch, for companies or for people. For similar reasons, you'll never see me buy jeans (or anything) from Abercrombie & Fitch. You know, the company whose CEO said that the reason that A&F won't make large sizes is because their clothes are made for "good-looking, cool kids," and that some people (such as overweight people) don't belong in their clothes. I don't know if I'm "good-looking" or "cool," but I'm pretty darn skinny, and it can be a challenge to find jeans that are small enough for me and fit me right. Who knows, maybe the "cool" A&F makes jeans that would fit me just right. We'll never know, because no matter what their products may be, my money isn't going to that company. Period.

[Blade Runner]

Same with a Pelikan Souveran 1000 then. Which part of the pen appealed to them? The utility or the image of the fancy gold trim, colorful stripes, the gigantic gold nib?

[Lady P]

Then you should not buy nice pens from the majority of brands these days who have precisely followed MB's luxury niche marketing strategy. Pelikan, Aurora, DuPont, Faber Castell, Omas, Montegrappa, , etc etc all sell very expensive, fancy pens including limited edition pens. Pelikan still makes low end pens, but that doesn't mean they can ignore the luxury market, and they don't. Those brands who didn't follow the luxury niche strategy in an age where ballpoints reign supreme suffered greatly. People like luxury, having something a little special. Maybe they can't own an exotic super car or mega mansion, but they may be able to own and enjoy a small luxury brand item.

 

 

I'm okay with a company having some luxury products. But I'm not going to buy from a company for which the "little guy" doesn't exist. I'm mostly the little guy (or gal, whatever), but sometimes I'll buy a higher end product. I prefer getting that occasional higher end product from a company that will also serve me when I go back to being the little guy (or gal ), and not only once in a blue moon when I decide to splurge big time.

BTW, my F-C Loom (nice pen!) cost something like 25 EUR. Not terribly luxurious. Made me consider buying a Graf von F-C pen, but then I read some less than stellar reviews of Graf von F-C pens and changed my mind... Aurora also has some relatively affordable pens, and it's possible I'll buy one of those at some point. As for Pelikan, well, see my signature! DuPont isn't getting my money any time soon. Omas neither, methinks. Montegrappa? That's the one with a 50K skull and snake, right?

[Blade Runner]

There's no reason why MB has to sell lower end pens, just as some luxury car brands don't sell economy cars. Such brands also don't prevent other brands from selling cheaper items. But Pelikan and most other major pen brands place great importance on the luxury market. Long gone is the era when the multitudes used a vast array of pens from many tiers. For someone who can't imagine spending more than $10 on a ballpoint, your splitting of hairs between a Pelikan 1000 and MB 149 would miss the point.

[Lady P]

There's no reason why MB has to sell lower end pens, just as some luxury car brands don't sell economy cars. Such brands also don't prevent other brands from selling cheaper items. But Pelikan and most other major pen brands place great importance on the luxury market. Long gone is the era when the multitudes used a vast array of pens from many tiers. For someone who can't imagine spending more than $10 on a ballpoint, your splitting of hairs between a Pelikan 1000 and MB 149 would miss the point.

 

The price difference between MB 149 and M1000 is much less the issue than the fact that Pelikan makes those M2xx pens, whereas MB makes nothing remotely similar.

 

MB doesn't have to do anything. It's just that it ain't gonna get any money from me. That's all. If a year (or three, or five) from now I decide to buy another pen in the Toledo price range, it won't be from MB. Or from DuPont, for that matter. Maybe it'll be from Pelikan (whose M2xx pens faithfully serve me on a daily basis in my work), or who knows, perhaps from Edison (where I can request a bright green pen, or a very dark burgundy one, or an ebonite pen, or what have you).

Edited February 21, 2014 by Lady P

[Blade Runner]

So you enjoy luxury pens, but don't like brands like MB that don't have lower end pens even though:

 

-their pens are good and worth it to many of us

-their owners are not necessarily snobs

-they don't prevent other brands from selling lower end pens

-they share the same marketing strategy as most major fountain pen brands

 

Glad we got down to crux of the matter!

Edited February 21, 2014 by Blade Runner

[Lady P]

 

So you enjoy luxury pens, but don't like brands that don't have lower end pens. Glad we got down to crux of the matter!

 

 

More or less, yes. Although if we're talking about a very small company, where just a few people produce custom hand-made pens, I'm okay with the company not producing any entry-level workhorses. I wouldn't necessarily buy from such a company (I'd generally prefer sampling an entry level pen first) but I wouldn't object to it.

 

I do love my Toledo, though, and yes, that's certainly a luxury pen. I wouldn't feel comfortable showing it around (an anonymous forum for pen nerds is a different matter), but I do enjoy using it in private, carefully, at my desk, with no risk of damage or unwanted looks. I enjoy its super-smooth nib, as well as its exceptional aesthetic appeal. I also appreciate that it came from the same company that produces my trusted workhorses. To be frank, if my Toledo disappeared, I'd be pretty upset, but if my trusted M2xx pens all disappeared and I had no way of replacing them (either because Pelikan went out of business or for whatever other reason), I'd be a lot more upset than that.

[Blade Runner]

MB through their brilliant marketing strategy revived the interest in fountain pens in the early 90s and provided a blue print for other brands to make selling fps a profitable business including those that still offer lower end-school pens.

 

MB also contributes annually to a number of charitable endeavors in both education and the arts, giving back to the community. How many other brands do that?

Edited February 21, 2014 by Blade Runner

[Lady P]

So you enjoy luxury pens, but don't like brands like MB that don't have lower end pens even though:

 

-their pens are good and worth it to many of us

-their owners are not necessarily snobs

-they don't prevent other brands from selling lower end pens

-they share the same marketing strategy as most major fountain pen brands

 

Glad we got down to crux of the matter!

 

 

You edited your post after I replied. No, MB owners aren't necessarily snobs, and (Stephen Brown's 149 aside) I'm sure that most MB pens are quite good. However, due to MB's marketing strategy, snobs in search of a fountain pen intended to impress (rather than merely give joy from being used) disproportionately gravitate toward that brand. That doesn't mean that all MB users are snobs, not at all. Just that a disproportionate number of MB users are (disproportionate compared to the number of snobs among users of pens of other brands).

And it's not the same marketing strategy. Pelikan markets to the little guy in search of a reliable workhorse, too. MB doesn't. A pelican with a chick consequently doesn't provoke the same reaction as a white star, and I'm rather thankful for that.

[Blade Runner]

Why be concerned about others, their possible motives? As long as you are secure in yourself, your abilities and behavior, surely you can use any pen you want.

[Lady P]

MB through their brilliant marketing strategy revived the interest in fountain pens in the early 90s and provided a blue print for other brands to make selling fps a profitable business including those that still offer lower end-school pens.

 

MB also contributes annually to a number of charitable endeavors in both education and the arts, giving back to the community. How many other brands do that?

 

 

If I ever decide to buy a really expensive pen again (which I might or might not do), I'll be giving my money to either (a ) a company that makes my trusted workhorses, or (b ) a small, artisan-run company, which will provide highly individualized service in return for my money. A major luxury-brand with nothing for the little guy? Nah. Methinks not. If Pelikan went out of business, it would be a loss to me, and much less because those Toledos would no longer get produced than because those M2xx's that I rely on daily would no longer get produced. I could live without my Toledo. Well, I could "live" without my M2xx's, too, but doing without them would be a much bigger blow to me. I see no reason to support a company such as MB. Honestly, I don't. If I want to give to charity, I can do that myself (as sometimes I do), I don't need to go through MB.

Again, not all MB users are snobs. You wanna support MB? Go ahead, it's your money. If I saw you tomorrow, using a MB pen, I'd wonder about your snob status. I just would. If I talked to you and discovered that you were in fact a pen nerd, we could have a nice chat (if you were up for it). However, if MB goes belly-up, you won't see me grieving for it. I'd grieve for Pelikan, and I'd even grieve (though less) for such companies as Sailor and Edison, whose pens I don't own (not yet anyway), and yet whose presence in the pen market I have an appreciation for.

[Blade Runner]

Why be concerned about others, their possible motives? As long as you are secure in yourself, your abilities and behavior, surely you can use any pen you want.

Could you answer this?

[Pterodactylus]

I can't share your point of view.

 

The 146 and 149 exists for more than 60 years, they are no new invention since MB decided to produce only high end pens anymore.

They were also present when MB also produced cheaper pen lines.

I don't want to say low end, as the cheapest MB Product the Monte Rosa was still a high quality pen,

 

Could it be that you see some brands a little bit through rose colored glasses?

 

A pen company does not care about little or big guys, they want to sell products, if a product line does not make any profit anymore or does not fit into their marketing strategy it will be terminated.

This is only a rational decision nothing more.

 

Pelikan does not make products for little guys, or kids because they want to support special customer groups or out of social caring, the do it to make profit, as any other company also.

 

Do you think they would hesitate to terminate their school pens or entry pens if they could not make any profit with this lines anymore?

I doubt it.

 

They still make entry pens because they still can earn money with them.

 

Montblanc stopped them because they could not make any money with the old strategy anymore, they were almost bankrupt.

I'm glad that MB succeeded to survive with the new strategy, as they still produce high quality pens (in their home country), and are a pen maker with a long and glorious history (not many are left).

Last but not least they helped as previous said also others to survive, with the image change of the product and as a door opener for them to sell very expensive pens.

Which are of course more lucrative than entry pens for the company (or do you really think that bigger pens cost significant more to produce than slightly smaller )

[Lady P]

Why be concerned about others, their possible motives? As long as you are secure in yourself, your abilities and behavior, surely you can use any pen you want.

 

 

It's as I said. If I saw you using a MB, I'd wonder about your snob status. I wouldn't draw any conclusions, but I would get a bit suspicious. If it's not something that matters to me a great deal, I'd rather not provoke such suspicion.

Besides, my M2xx pens are the ones that are the most suited for my work; I enjoy using my gold nibs (which also happen to be noticeably broader than my M2xx steel nibs) for more casual purposes such as journaling. And even if I needed (or wanted) to take one of my gold-nibbed Pelikans out of apartment, I'd choose to take my discreet-looking M250 along.

[Lady P]

Pelikan does not make products for little guys, or kids because they want to support special customer groups or out of social caring, the do it to make profit, as any other company also.

 

Sure, I agree. But it's not about what a company believes in its heart of hearts (as if companies had a "heart of hearts"!), it's what it does. The fact that Pelikan makes things for the little guy as well (meaning that it provides me with my trusted workhorses, and also gives me the opportunity to buy nice pens that I can offer as gifts without either braking the bank or making the recipient uncomfortable) makes Pelikan a brand that I really want to stick around. Because it provides a service that really matters to me. If I'm gonna splurge on a rare luxury item, I'd rather the money went to a company whose business I appreciate in my more mundane moments as well. Plus, as I said, Pelikan hasn't marketed its products in such a way that if I'm seen with one of its pens, people will suspect that I bought the pen primarily to impress rather than primarily to use.

[Pterodactylus]

So you might bought a MB product, maybe a 146 or 149, 60 years ago when MB also was also a premium manufacturer but still had a full product range with entry pens.

 

I still can't see the huge difference between a Pelikan or a other premium pen at this price range and a MB pen, but maybe it is related that I don't care about marketing and what others might think when seeing me using a tool from a specific manufacturer.

 

But that's ok, I don't have to understand everything

Edited February 21, 2014 by Pterodactylus