Let's Do the Time Warp Again

[JRodriguez]

As Sonia said, the problem will likely be that many people just took fountain pens so much for granted that it might not have been written about as notworthy, though Mike's find does shed a tad of light on things. Does anyone know of a senior former secretary? I've gotten really interested in these questions and I would consider going to a retirement home, but I don't know how well that would fly.

[mmlife]

Hi

 

At my secondary school we had to use a FP up until about 1980-1981. we also had our own supply of Quink. I had a nice Sheaffer which my mum bought at the school books supply store. My Dad always used a nice Sheaffer Sterling Silver model so I guess that is why at age 38 I have developed an interest in these pens.

 

Michael

[Ron Z]

r.e. communal ink supplies.....

 

 

I gather that some offices had ink on hand for employees - hence the quart bottles, (and larger I gather). How may people would buy a quart bottle for their personal ink supply?

 

At a PO museum, I was told that the PO deliberately made the holes in their ink wells small so that traveling salesmen could not fit their large pens into them to fill them.

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

My grandparents are too modern--they hate those things!!

 

My grandmother even pronounces fountain pen like "pountaen Pain" she says ball pen like "ballpen"

 

My mother side grandparents love their fountain pens, but I think my grandfather is picking up too many junk pens. While I could restore them, that is a tax on time, and money.

 

My mother uses a fountain pen, but my Dad hates them. My mother grew up with a red Parker 45 and a few Platinums. She enjoys testing the pens that I have just gotten. Anyway, just ask any of my sisters, they are currently growing up with fountain pens they love them and would not give them up to a Bic stic. One of them was wounded in action by a Bic stic and thinks that Bic stics are just scratchy not to mention that she is left handed. Another them is on this forum and posts lots she swore allegiance to the Bic stic before. The other one (The youngest) just followed my lead.

 

Dillon

[Ron Z]

Proportionally, what would be the modern equivalent of an everyday fountain pen back then?  How much would it set one back in today's funny money (US)?

Tom Zoss came to one of our pen club dinners a couple of years ago, and this subject came up...

 

Tom believes that people were as aware of changes and advances in pen technology as we are in changes in computers today. The FP was a tool that nearly everyone owned. You used it daily for almost all of your work.

 

I think that the PC is the modern day equivelent - we use one all the time, for all kinds of things. Even the cash registers at many businesses are PC driven today. As such, it can take a fair chunck of change!

[Bill D]

The desk pen in Old Griz's thread is from the 50's. It looks like the sort of thing the services were issuing their clerks and desk jockeys.

 

Bill

[RonB]

That is a very difficult question to come up with a reasonable answer. You can use www.dol.gov for the inflation calculator to estimate the purchasing power of any years dollar relative to today. But you come in with a problem adjusting for the increased standard of living up to 1960 or so, and then the slight decline since then. A third variable that is really hard to control is the effect of technology and the industrial shifts where you no longer have economies of scale with certain things like nibs and horse shoes that you used to have.

 

I think most writing instrument functions have been replaced by word processors. (Even the UPS and FedEx man quit using pens during the last decade.)

I would agree with the first part of your comment, but disagree with the second part. Real GDP per capita has increased from about $14,000 in 1960 to over $35,000 in 2000 in the US. Standards of living have increased substantially from 1960 to the present in most of the world. I believe average wages have increased on about 1.5% per year since 1960. My grandparent's peak earnings in 1960 were less than half what they would be today for a similar job. Everything from the size of the average home to the features and quality of a car have increased dramatically since 1960, at least in the US.

 

Ron

[tonyv]

Tom Zoss came to one of our pen club dinners a couple of years ago, and this subject came up...

 

Tom believes that people were as aware of changes and advances in pen technology as we are in changes in computers today. The FP was a  tool that nearly everyone owned.  You used it daily for almost all of your work.

 

I think that the PC is the modern day equivelent - we use one all the time, for all kinds of things.  Even the cash registers at many businesses are PC driven today.  As such,  it can take a fair chunck of change!

This does indeed seem like a reasonable analogy. Computers are extremely useful tools that are accessible/affordable to most people. Although "within reach" like fountain pens were to the folks of yesteryear, I (as I'm sure many people of today) nevertheless don't look forward to the expense of having to buy a new computer.

Edited June 5, 2006 by tonyv

[Blorgy]

At school, we used pencils in our first term. Next term, we used dip pens with stub nibs. We had ink in white porcelain inkwells, which fitted into holes in the desks. (I cannot remember how the ink got into the inkwells ). Perhaps our teachers put ink into the inkwells. We had lots of pink blotting paper, which we used very frequently.

In the third term, we used fountain pens only. I think ball pens were frowned upon, and probably forbidden. I used cheap Platignum cartridge pens then. They were sold in Woolworths. We provided our own fountain pens and ink.

[Oso]

These were some interesting questions. I thought I would ask my grandmother, who is in her 90’s, of her memories about fountain pens and fountain pen usage. I thought she would have a good perspective on it because she was an elementary school teacher. She also worked as a clerk in her parent's Penny’s (Golden Rule) Store. She never worked in an office so she did not have much information on the politics of the pen, such as secretaries filling the boss’s pen. She did not remember if one brand was “the” brand to have; only that some were better than others as far as function. Like some other older people, she does not remember fountain pens fondly. In fact I don’t think she understands my interest in them. To her, fountain pens were items of utility, sometimes leaking and making a mess. Fountain pens were a transition between the dip pen and the ball point.

 

Her memories are as follows.

 

"We used pen and ink for penmanship... and pencils. We used pencils for most things. A lot of kids used slate. They used a lot of slate in the country schools. The kids had their own pieces of bound slate and chalk. They were erased after the teacher checked them. When I started teaching school the kids used big pencils. When bills were written in stores pencils were used."

 

A different time when “Bullet Proof” ink wasn’t needed.

 

Did everyone own and use their own FP or did offices supply them (like they do with Bic's today)?

 

"Everyone had their own. No offices supplied pens like they do today."

 

Did you own your own ink bottle or was there a communal office supply (as there was in most classrooms)?

 

"We had our own ink. I bought a fancy desk set for Bob (my grandfather) and we used that at home."

 

Did "managers" ink their own pens or was that a "clerical" function?

 

"I don’t know what they did in offices. The only thing I remember using in the store were pencils."

 

Was it a "status" factor if you had a Parker, Sheaffer, Estie, or Arnold?

 

"There were cheap ones that you could get in the dime store, but they would stick in the paper. I remember I bought a good one at a jewelry store. I do know that there were good ones."

 

Was it a "status" factor if you kept a Desk Set?

 

"We had a desk set at home. It was a lot better if we did not carry pens because they would always leak. I remember putting them in my purse and they would leak. It was very aggravating. I was thrilled when we got ballpoints. We used to give them (fountain pens) as gifts sometimes, but as soon as the ball point came in you didn’t see the fountain pens around any more, just as souvenirs."

 

What I gather from my grandmother’s comments about desk sets is that they were more for the sake of convenience not necessarily status; to have the pens within reach. So like in today’s world the more ornate or larger desk top computer does not really have a bearing on status.

 

Did one keep one's ink and pen in the office or did it commute?

 

"I tried not to carry a pen if I did not have to."

 

Did one fill the FP at home or in the office?

 

"Where ever you needed to fill the pen."

 

How important was handwriting when it came to securing a job? Secretarial? Managerial? Professional?

 

"I don’t know. I never had to test for a job or really apply for one. They (jobs) always came to me. They begged me to teach because they needed teachers so badly."

 

I did not ask my grandmother some of the questions. I could probably guess that she would say that she never thought of some of the bureau-political aspects of owning and using fountain pens. It just did not seem like that big a deal to her. She went to school and college during the “Golden Age of Fountain Pens,” the 1920’s through the mid 1930’s but thinks it is odd that I am even interested in them.

Edited June 6, 2006 by Oso

[tonyv]

Like some other older people she does not remember fountain pens fondly.  In fact I don’t think she understands my interest in them.

 

"I tried not to carry a pen if I did not have to."

 

It just did not seem like that big a deal to her.  She went to school and college during the “Golden Age of Fountain Pens,” the 1920’s through the mid 1930’s but thinks it is odd that I am even interested in them.

This is very funny! That's like people who don't understand my appreciation of older cars. My parents would say, "Yes, I remember the old car, but the new one's so much better!" Not everyone appreciates the simplicity of the carburetor; most seem to prefer relatively reliable, perfectly performing, computer-controlled fuel injection.

[Sparky]

Your grandmother sounds like a great, smart lady. I bet you her answers are representative of the bulk of the people, which is why you don't see a lot of reminicing about the gold old fountain pen and the great times you had with it. Let's face it, the technology probably was very poor for FP's back then so they must not have been the easiest thing to maneuver.

[Sidney]

I guess older people remember when the technology of their time was commonplace, complete with a larger percentage of inferior products. The old technology that we fall in love with is the superior product that survives.

[krz]

Great topic Andy!

 

My 1st exposure to fountain pens was in the 7th grade. I had a friend who always brought a brown Tuckaway Sentinel which was ancient even then. He used it for writing, but he'd loan it to me in art class so I could draw silly pictures. I tried trading him all my best stuff but he wouldn't trade.

 

Then in High School I had a friend who drew much better than I did and I remember he drew with an old Fat Sheaffer Valiant. When I described it at the office supply they laughed because they hadn't made them for many years.

 

A few years later I still had no fountain pen and I stopped into another older office supply store in Northern CA.. I saw some old fountain pens in a display case all shoved to one side. I ended up walking out with a Burgundy Snorkel PFM, and a handful of Esterbrooks various nibs. I was in FP heaven then. They were happy to un-load them to make room for new fangled Rollerballs.

 

A couple weeks later my Grandmother had rounded up her old Fountain pens and sent one from my Great Grandmother as well. She said here you go! I don't know why you want to use these old things when they have nice Bics you don't even have to fill? Thanks Grandma!

Edited June 6, 2006 by krz

[JRodriguez]

Thanks Oso! What a great post. I would have guessed that a lot of folks had less than fond memories of fountain pens, and that the ball point pen was seen as a quite welcome advance for most. Anyway, thanks for that post!

[Goodwhiskers]

I guess older people remember when the technology of their time was commonplace, complete with a larger percentage of inferior products. The old technology that we fall in love with is the superior product that survives.

Sidney, thanks for putting into words (for me, at least) the main difference between the FP accumulator/collector/hobbyist attitude today and the attitude of people during the "Golden Age" of fountain pens.

 

My parents (dip pen and FP users from the 1930's through the early 1960's) do not share my enthusiasm for FPs. They remember the problems. Leaks and expansion bubbles (causing flow when pens were uncapped), apparently, happened often enough to be bad memories. My mom uses rollerball and gel rollerball pens to ease her wrist.

 

However, my dad is using the Hero 329 I gave him, with Noodler's Luxury Blue ink. He's gotten a couple of curious and positive comments from it, including from a 20-something supermarket checkout clerk.

[Mary P]

My father was born in 1897. When I used to visit his CPA office in the 1950s he had a copper pen tray on his large oak desk. In it he kept two Eversharpe Skyline fountain pen and mechanical pencil sets: one black and one burgundy. The burgundy pen was always filled with Sheaffer permanent red ink. The burgundy mechanical pencil was always filled with red led. Dad bought Sheaffer permanent blue black ink in what I would call an institutional size. There was a freestanding, oak wardrobe in the receptionist's front office where office supplies were stored. I remember a shelf that held nothing but ink and ribbons--stamp pad ink, fountain pen ink, typewriter ribbons...

 

My Dad continued to practice as an accountant until he was well into his 90s. He didn't adopt ballpoint pens until he was 70+ and even then he did so reluctantly because he had developed a tremor. By then he hand wrote as little as possible and used an ancient Underwood to correspond with clients, children and grandchildren.

 

I remember going to the post office with my father to pick up mail from his box. Sometime in the late 1950s the fountain pens and ink that had been available for custoemrs disappeared. Bank of California where he banked continued to have fountain pens at writing stations in the massive bank lobby until the mid 1960s.

 

When I visited the Fuel Oil Service office where my aunt worked, she kept a Sheaffer fountain pen and pencil set on her desk but used a pencil with an extender sleeve more than any other writing instrument. She ran a Burroughs bookkeeping machine most of her work day. By the mid 60s most of the office staff used Sheaffer ballpoint pens in the same colours as the fuel trucks and they were all marked "Standard Oil".

 

My mother returned to fulltime work in 1964. She was the bookkeeper for a plumbing and electrical contractor. I never sa anyone use a fountain pen in that office. Not long after she returned to work her Royal manual with a long carriage was replaced by an IBM selectric. I remember how frustrated she was as she got used to keys that would repeat if she wasn't careful. She went to work for Pepsi in 1970 and before she retired she had learned to post on an IBM 360.

[RonB]

Very interesting, Mary. Thanks for this information.

 

I finally had a chance to talk to my father-in-law about these questions. He went to work for US Steel at the end of WWII. Initially, as an engineer, he was out in the field directing mining operations, etc. but eventually ended up running a large iron ore mine in Northern Canada in 1958, and then was transferred to the New York and Pittsburgh (headquarters) offices.

 

In answer to Andy's questions, he offered the following thoughts:

 

1. Everyone owned and supplied their own fountain pen. The company did not supply them.

2. There was no communal ink supply except for the engineering dept., which required a special kind of ink for the drawings.

3. He took his pen home with him most nights, but kept his ink at work to refill it.

Although he could have had his secretary refill it for him, he was not the type to have her do things he could easily do himself. However, he did say that there were some executives who strutted around the office and had the secretaries do everything they could think of.

4. When he was promoted to the "Director" level, a 2 pen desk set magically appeared on his desk. It was considered one of the mandatory symbols of prestige at the time. However, he didn't like it and never used it; he continued to use his own pen.

5. Everyone had blotters during the fountain pen era. There were very few problems with ink spills, etc. In fact, he never could recall a single instance of an ink spill. Smearing, however, was a common problem, especially for left handed writers.

6. Ballpoints were very expensive originally. At the end of WWII, they became available but he remembers one model priced at $300 (about $3,500 or more in today's dollars). In the early 1950's, ballpoints started to come into the office. Interestingly, he said that leaking was a major problem with the early ballpoints presumably because they had some trouble getting just the right ink type to work properly. By the mid to late 1950's, ballpoints became the majority pen in the office, although there were many who continued to use their fountain pens.

 

I hope this helps, Andy.

 

Ron

[BobR]

Mary P's excellent post reminded me of a visit I made to a client company in central Pennsylvania, I think the year was 1984 or 1985. They had a pen stand by the receptionist where visitors signed in. I remember being surprised because it was a fountain pen. On a subsequent visit a couple of years later, the fountain pen had been replaced by a you-know-what.

 

Ron--very interesting post regarding your father's recollections. He he say what brand or model pens he used?

 

My late father worked for the Federal government and would have used fountain pens in the early years. I do have a black Esterbrook LJ that I believe was his, and I have a recollection of seeing a Parker 51 on his desk at home when I was a teen-ager and thinking-"how cool"(a very '60's word)-but alas that and any other pens have been lost. I still think Parker 51's are cool though!

[RonB]

Ron--very interesting post regarding your father's recollections. He he say what brand or model pens he used?

My father-in-law had a Sheaffer Balance Vac-Fil, which I believe he bought during the war. I now have it, but I haven't gotten it restored just yet. My father's pens are long gone, unfortunately.

 

My grandfather had a Parker Duofold single pen desk set on his desk. Unfortunately, I have the stand but my uncle has the pen. I think I'll see if he'd be willing to leave it to me.

 

Ron