Pilot Custom 823

[sidhant172]

General:This is my first pen review. The Custom 823 is a very popular pen now with already several reviews on it. So, although I will, like the others go through my personal impression and experience with the pen, I will also give facts and my conclusions about the comparison of the writing performances of Pilot and Sailor pens.

 

First Impressions/Design: The Custom 823 comes in a nicely made box with an ink bottle (Pilot 70 mL) inside. The presentation is classical, simple but elegant. The pen itself has a basic cigar shape, but the nice color combination (amber with gold trim) makes it look attractive. It gives an impression of a quiet conservative looking pen with a professional side to its look.

 

Filling: The pen is a piston (type P as called by Pilot) filler. It it a single stroke pump, fills quickly and efficiently, especially conveniently from the Pilot 70 mL bottle that comes with it (can also be filled from other bottles and does not pose any problem at that). The ink fills pretty much to about 80 percent or slightly more of the capacity of the reservoir. If you have questions about not being able to fill it till this capacity, then take care of two things: dipping the nib past the feed and doing the whole process of pulling and pushing the piston in a slow controlled manner.

 

Nib: To be frank, the most interesting thing in a fountain pen to me is the nib. And I experiment and study a lot with them (along with tweaking and adjusting nibs myself to some extent). Mine is a solid 14k gold Medium nib. It is nicely designed. I have been using mine for about a month now. It is a very smooth writer with a typical feel to it. (I will discuss about this in detail later). Keep in mind that although this is a very precisely built nib with an excellent ink feeding system (possibly the best on the market), it may not always write brilliant out of the box. It sometimes might need some break in time (as Pilot mentions in its website under the Namiki FAQs) as mine did. But it should have great flow and no scratchiness (although it may not be smooth as you would like it initially). Unless your new nib lacks any of these, do not think that it is a bad one, keep writing with it and after break in, it will become a nice, smooth writer with very consistent flow (that never dries out, especially if you are using Pilot/Namiki ink, even if you end up keeping it outside with the cap open for some time.

 

Overall: It does what an ideal writer is supposed to do, write smoothly and carry sufficient ink, both of which are very important to me. In the end, I conclude that it is worth the value and can potentially become a penman's favorite writer, like it did for me.

 

PS: Comparison between Pilot and Sailor in the next post.

 

Edited July 23, 2009 by sidhant172

[sidhant172]

Pilot vs Sailor nibs

There has been many discussions on FPN about Pilot vs Sailor and the comparison of their writing performances. I also own a Sailor 1911 21K, whose review I will post shortly. And after having written with both of them heavily, and searching about their various characteristics from sources, I now want to compare the two. The Sailor 21K nib is a solid gold nib, with very high firmness. It is very unlikely to bend under writing pressure (only slightly). The ink flow with the Sailor feed is same or slightly higher than the Pilot nibs (depending on which nib you are comparing with). The Sailor nibs are very precisely ground and are polished brilliantly at the writing surface. The Sailor nib relies on this smooth surface on the firm nib gliding on the paper for its glorious smoothness (as many of us have experienced). This results in two things. First when the nib and the user adjust to each other (again remember, the nib always adjusts to its user, you can see a personal interview with Mr. Nagahara for this) it will give a very smooth feel on almost any kind of paper, and you will kind of be automatically lured into applying slight pressure even if you are a feather writer, cause this increases the ink flow slightly (all this is not apparent easily), thus increasing lubrication and hence smoothness. The second thing is that, this however can result in what people call the limited sweet spot of the nib (as can be seen in many discussions) because once slightly out of the polished surface, the smoothness goes down fast. Although I should say that the sweet spot it not very small, there will be differences in experience depending on whether you are a finger writer or an arm writer (you can refer to calligraphy or handwriting articles for this). Arm writers are very likely to extract the full potential of the Sailor 21K nib, and they for sure are going to swear that there is and neither can be a smoother nib.

 

As for Pilot, the mechanism is completely different. The Pilot nibs are all 14K gold (can be 18K in some cases) and are generally marked by a certain degree of springiness to the nib. Although firm, they have some yielding capacity. If you put a Pilot and Sailor nib side by side, and look at their tips in proper light, you will notice that the Pilot does not really have an extended super polished writing surface like the Sailor. So, the Pilot nibs rely more on the springiness and minute yielding, and the super feeds (and preferably a good flowing lubricating ink, like the Namiki/Pilot or Aurora) for their smoothness. This also accounts for the fact that the smoothness of the Pilot nibs has been observed to increase with the size of the nib (#5, #10.#15). The 14K construction along with its springiness allows for a greater potential for adapting to the user's writing style and thus accounts for break in periods in the Pilot nibs (if required, sometimes they just are well suited to your hand and write great out of the box, although the smoothness is likely to increase a bit over time). What this different mechanism of the Pilot nibs results in is a different kind of smoothness feel to them as compared to Sailor. Also, this mechanism is more tolerant to the rotation of pen angle (although smoothness does decrease very slightly as you change it from your normal angle). Another thing to observe is that if any of you possess a Sailor Sapporo with 14K nibs, then you will notice that their performance and writing feel is kind of similar to that of Pilot and different from the 21K ones. Although Sailor makes it a point to use the same kind of polishing construction as in their 21K nibs to their 14K ones as well, it just does not seem to work the same way as the 21K one and seems to rely more on the Pilot type mechanism for smoothness.

 

In my personal experience, I am more of an arm writer (although not purely) and I do tend to find my Sailor nibs more smooth. But, that is not the end of the story. The Pilot nibs are also very smooth in their own way and are superb writers as well. Hope you find this useful and interesting to discuss. Thanks

[Saturninus]

Very interesting indeed! I've never heard such an explanation before. My only Sailor is an XF, which I imagine is not their smoothest nib. I hope to try out an M nib and experience the smoothest nib I can find

[AltecGreen]

Very interesting indeed! I've never heard such an explanation before. My only Sailor is an XF, which I imagine is not their smoothest nib. I hope to try out an M nib and experience the smoothest nib I can find

 

I just picked up a Sailor today w/ an M nib. The nib is pretty smooth out of the box. Still not as smooth as any of the Signums I've used/own but pretty good.

 

If you want to try a Sailor w/ an M nib, go to MaiDo since you live in the area. They have various Sailors there and you can dip and try the pens.

 

 

[PinarelloOnly]

Pilot vs Sailor nibs

This also accounts for the fact that the smoothness of the Pilot nibs has been observed to increase with the size of the nib (#5, #10.#15).

 

Wow really you "observed" this? I "use" all three nibs on various Pilots daily. Your "observation" is not true.

[mgutman]

Pilot vs Sailor nibs

This also accounts for the fact that the smoothness of the Pilot nibs has been observed to increase with the size of the nib (#5, #10.#15).

 

Wow really you "observed" this? I "use" all three nibs on various Pilots daily. Your "observation" is not true.

Gee... I find my Pilot 823 B (#15) to be ever so slightly smoother than my 74 B(#10). They are both very good, however.

 

Of course, manufacturing variations could account for different observations

 

BTW, thanks for the review, Sidhant172 and......

[sidhant172]

Pilot vs Sailor nibs

This also accounts for the fact that the smoothness of the Pilot nibs has been observed to increase with the size of the nib (#5, #10.#15).

 

Wow really you "observed" this? I "use" all three nibs on various Pilots daily. Your "observation" is not true.

 

It's possible I am wrong, but that is what I felt, and there is also some discussion on that topic here https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/lo...php/t33132.html

[Lloyd]

A sample size of 1 Sailor and 1 Pilot is a tad small...no?

My observations from more than this (5 Sailors and 9 Pilots) disagrees, in some regards, with yours. I found 3/5 Sailors needed nib adjustments (tines uneven, tines too narrowly spaced, tines needing inter-tine smoothing) while 2/9 Pilots needed nib adjustments (too narrow). I agree about the size of the sweet-spot. I far prefer Pilot.

[sidhant172]

A sample size of 1 Sailor and 1 Pilot is a tad small...no?

My observations from more than this (5 Sailors and 9 Pilots) disagrees, in some regards, with yours. I found 3/5 Sailors needed nib adjustments (tines uneven, tines too narrowly spaced, tines needing inter-tine smoothing) while 2/9 Pilots needed nib adjustments (too narrow). I agree about the size of the sweet-spot. I far prefer Pilot.

 

 

wierd ... I have 3 Sailors and 4 Pilots, all of them were almost bang on out of the box ... but then I get them from John anyway

[Lloyd]

A sample size of 1 Sailor and 1 Pilot is a tad small...no?

My observations from more than this (5 Sailors and 9 Pilots) disagrees, in some regards, with yours. I found 3/5 Sailors needed nib adjustments (tines uneven, tines too narrowly spaced, tines needing inter-tine smoothing) while 2/9 Pilots needed nib adjustments (too narrow). I agree about the size of the sweet-spot. I far prefer Pilot.

 

 

wierd ... I have 3 Sailors and 4 Pilots, all of them were almost bang on out of the box ... but then I get them from John anyway

HEY,That's cheating!!! :roflmho: