Vintage (1940's) Paper and Ink

[Poetman]

I am looking for some recommendations on vintage looking paper and water-proof/highly resistant blue and black ink. As for paper, I'd like an ivory/cream color. The ink, which is most important to me, must be permanent (not bomb proof or anything excessive). I've been using Noodlers' black, but it doesn't have any shading. I've also been using Noodlers El Lawrence, but the color isn't exactly what I'm seeking. I'm looking for a darker blue ink, and a dark black ink. Again, I'd like these inks and paper to have a vintage look to them--a 1940's feel.

 

Thanks for the suggestions!

Edited June 13, 2009 by Poetman

[Ondina]

http://www.vintageinks.com/ You may be able to find original 40's inks.

 

As for modern production, Montblanc Blue-Black or Diamine's Registrar ink, and Herbin's Encre Authentique for black.

[Jimmy James]

The new Noodler's Dark Matter may fit the bill for a vintage-feeling black ink. It is apparently modeled after the ink used in Los Alamos in the Manhattan Project era.

 

I understand it to be water resistant but not close to bulletproof.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Jimmy James

[publius]

Noodler's Baystate Blue is, according to Nathan, essentially a re-creation of an ink from the 1940s — he doesn't name names, but his references to "popular here in the northeast" make me think Carter's. It's pretty permanent.

[Poetman]

were most 40's era inks black, blue, or blue-black? Also, did they make permanent inks back then?

 

Thanks!

[ZeissIkon]

By the late 1940s there were a selection of aniline colored inks available -- yes, black, blue, and blue-black were commonly used, but browns, greens, reds and purples were well known by that time. There were also permanent inks -- not counting India ink (not FP safe), there were iron-gall inks that were considered safe for fountain pens (originally, in fact, most blue-black inks had iron-gall content; they'd go down blue and then turn black as the ink oxidized, though by 1949 many were just dye colors), and some aniline colored inks had water resistant or virtually waterproof qualities by 1949.

[cfclark]

http://www.vintageinks.com/ You may be able to find original 40's inks.

 

As for modern production, Montblanc Blue-Black or Diamine's Registrar ink, and Herbin's Encre Authentique for black.

 

I have some Quink Permanent Royal Blue from the '40s that I use now and then...it may have the look you want (and vintageinks.com has some).

[Ernst Bitterman]

Pelikan blue-black looks very like the results I got with some Waterman's 1944ish blue-black permanent ink (there's a scan with the Pelikan for comparison at the bottom). It doesn't react with the paper to be utterly waterproof like the Waterman's, but it hangs on pretty well through a wetting. It does prefer a wet pen, and for some reason looks better coming out of a vintage model-- nice and dark out of a Parker Moderne, but sadly grey in a Lamy Safari.

 

Carter, at least, had a range of colours available in the '40s, so you need not limit yourself entirely.

[jar]

For 40's paper visit Crane.

[Ernst Bitterman]

I've got some nice 100% cotton stuff from Southworth paper (picked it up at Staples, but can't find it on their site). It makes pens act a couple of degrees dryer than usual, but it shows off inks well. Most of the Fraser Papers stuff I've tried is pretty nice too-- fake "laid" embossing, linen weave, and parchment.

[Poetman]

Pelikan blue-black looks very like the results I got with some Waterman's 1944ish blue-black permanent ink (there's a scan with the Pelikan for comparison at the bottom). It doesn't react with the paper to be utterly waterproof like the Waterman's, but it hangs on pretty well through a wetting. It does prefer a wet pen, and for some reason looks better coming out of a vintage model-- nice and dark out of a Parker Moderne, but sadly grey in a Lamy Safari.

 

Carter, at least, had a range of colours available in the '40s, so you need not limit yourself entirely.

 

 

Thanks for linking this review. This vintage waterman is very close to the color I imagine. In the review you said you hesitated putting this ink in a modern pen: why is that?

 

thanks!

[Ernst Bitterman]

Two reasons:

- further down the thread I mention that it smells like the chemicals people thought were safe back then, which is about the time that they herded kids into the street to be hosed down with DDT;

- it ACTS like an iron-gall ink, and even if it isn't it's probably a pH which modern pens don't expect to handle (see Inky Thoughts forum regarding "Bay State Blue").

 

Honestly, don't hurt yourself looking for it, because modern Pelikan blue-black gives almost exactly the same effects-- very slightly paler, slightly less wet-resistance. I suspect Lamy and Montblanc blue-black will be even more what you're after, as they are iron-gall (more or less) inks and largely damp-proof, but I've never had a chance to play with them.

[Paddler]

were most 40's era inks black, blue, or blue-black? Also, did they make permanent inks back then?

 

Thanks!

 

I have some vintage Skrip inks from that era. They are blue, black, and blue black. The ones labeled "permanent" have black in them that does not easily wash out or quickly fade in sunlight. When the colored dyes are gone, a still-legible light gray is left behind. After about 50 days in full sun and acid rain (the only kind we have here), vintage "permanent" Skrip is pretty near history.

 

Paddler

 

[Poetman]

Two reasons:

- further down the thread I mention that it smells like the chemicals people thought were safe back then, which is about the time that they herded kids into the street to be hosed down with DDT;

- it ACTS like an iron-gall ink, and even if it isn't it's probably a pH which modern pens don't expect to handle (see Inky Thoughts forum regarding "Bay State Blue").

 

Honestly, don't hurt yourself looking for it, because modern Pelikan blue-black gives almost exactly the same effects-- very slightly paler, slightly less wet-resistance. I suspect Lamy and Montblanc blue-black will be even more what you're after, as they are iron-gall (more or less) inks and largely damp-proof, but I've never had a chance to play with them.

 

 

I still don't understand why one would hesitate to use it in a modern pen? Does it have iron-gall in it, and does that harm modern pens?

 

Thanks!

[Ernst Bitterman]

The reason most vintage pens (or, surviving vintage pens before a certain date) have gold points is because gold could handle the corrosive nature of older inks, and ink makers weren't too concerned about fixing that because they knew the pens could handle it. Modern inks are rather less fierce (some are actually neutral), and while modern steel points are less susceptible than pre-1960 ones, they're still not designed to stand up to raging, hungry inks, nor are the feeds nor fillers. Lamy appears to have worked out a way to have an iron-gall ink that isn't apt to dissolve a modern pen, and Pelikan has more or less replicated the colour of period ink, so you have reasonable safe and easily-found options.

 

...all of which sounds alarmist, and it is. I'm a big wimp when it comes to putting exotic stuff down a pen. It's probably perfectly safe. But it's not proven perfectly safe, so I hedge.

[jar]

Two reasons:

- further down the thread I mention that it smells like the chemicals people thought were safe back then, which is about the time that they herded kids into the street to be hosed down with DDT;

- it ACTS like an iron-gall ink, and even if it isn't it's probably a pH which modern pens don't expect to handle (see Inky Thoughts forum regarding "Bay State Blue").

 

Honestly, don't hurt yourself looking for it, because modern Pelikan blue-black gives almost exactly the same effects-- very slightly paler, slightly less wet-resistance. I suspect Lamy and Montblanc blue-black will be even more what you're after, as they are iron-gall (more or less) inks and largely damp-proof, but I've never had a chance to play with them.

 

 

I still don't understand why one would hesitate to use it in a modern pen? Does it have iron-gall in it, and does that harm modern pens?

 

Thanks!

 

Always remember that there is at least one other option... don't use a modern pen with it.

 

This is a great opportunity. Do not waste that ink, now you need a period pen to go with it.