Pretentious, or Not?

[yachtsilverswan]

Pens are not pretentious. (Some) people are pretentious.

 

[offbase]

Here's my perspective: I try not to presume why people have what they have, cos I never know the circumstances under which they acquired whatever.

 

Maybe the person wielding the MB BP (to use that as an example) isn't really some jerk lawyer trying to fit a mold but a lawyer with a sense of humor using the pen in a subversive way that becomes apparent only once you get to know him or her.

 

I know many of such jerks, and it generally applies. Chauncy, come thrash them! Thrash them all!

[Deirdre]

If there is anyone who finds my FP use pretentious, they've never had the gall to say so.

[Silvermink]

Pens are not pretentious. (Some) people are pretentious.

 

I don't think it was a question about pens being pretentious per se, but rather about whether certain kinds of pens are more likely to be owned by people who are pretentious.

[Blade Runner]

I think he is trying to say: Does he really enjoy having a very nice pen, and loves pens himself, or did he just lay that money for status, and could care less about the beauty and art of the instrument. Am I right?

 

By Jove, I think you've got it (thank you).

Judging someone by their possessions is inaccurate and can get you into trouble.

 

MB has the market share of the business for pens > $250, so in that huge pool, there will all sorts of people who buy them, pretentious, not pretentious, short, tall, stout, thin, etc.

 

Preferring expensive bps doesn't make you pretentious. Not everyone has the time or interest in fps but may like attractive, well made pens that feel good, write well and make them happy.

 

Finally, I don't really care about someone else's pretensions. An attractive person has pretentions about his or her looks, but I don't go around thinking about it. What a waste of time. I have enough pretensions to keep me happy.

[wspohn]

Pretentious?

 

Moi?

 

IANAN pays a small royalty fee to the writers of the British sitcom "Only Fools and Horses" and exits the thread borne upon a palanquin to a flourish of trumpets...

 

 

Actually, I am sure I recall that being used on Fawlty Towers too.

 

And to anyone making assumptions about me by talking about jumping to unwarranted conclusions, please note that I specifically did NOT say I formed any conclusions about people based on sighting a particular sort of pen. It would be just one small warning sign that I'd file away. It would alert me to keep an eye on them. "Warning Will Robinson - possible twit alert, further assessment necessary"

 

Funny, I thought that my giving the FP owners a mental 'pass' was as odd as giving the BP owners a mental possible strike.

[Blade Runner]

I think he is trying to say: Does he really enjoy having a very nice pen, and loves pens himself, or did he just lay that money for status, and could care less about the beauty and art of the instrument. Am I right?

 

By Jove, I think you've got it (thank you).

Judging someone by their possessions is inaccurate and can get you into trouble.

 

MB has the market share of the business for pens > $250, so in that huge pool, there will all sorts of people who buy them, pretentious, not pretentious, short, tall, stout, thin, etc.

 

Preferring expensive bps doesn't make you pretentious. Not everyone has the time or interest in fps but may like attractive, well made pens that feel good, write well and make them happy.

 

Finally, I don't really care about someone else's pretensions. An attractive person has pretentions about his or her looks, but I don't go around thinking about it. What a waste of time. I have enough pretensions to keep me happy.

I should add that a bp has advantages over a fp in a number of circumstances including but not limited to: triplicate forms, glossy postcards and photo backs, awful paper, wet conditions, and lending. I prefer fps, but if I'm forced to use a bp, I like one that looks and feels great and performs well. Here's my Starwalker Black Mystery with the "data-centric" geometric pattern that I love. The broad blue refill is also quite nice!

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jelb/IMG_6914.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jelb/IMG_0068.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jelb/IMG_0071.jpg

 

[Brian]

Interesting question and post. My observation is that it depends on the setting and it depends on the person. MBs or whatever pen can create or lend both a positive and a negative response. Some people just look pretentious when using them, or at least that is my perception because of the setting. I recall one conference in Chicago where a well dressed person pulls out his 144 doue and proceeds to take notes. The room was full of other similarly dressed individuals and yet this one guy looks so phoney. Maybe its me, maybe I am transferring some quality that isn't there. But yet here I was thinking how pretentious.

 

Another meeting in town with some attorneys in Honolulu and some are using Pilot G-2s, bics, or whatever, but there is someone using a MB LeGrand BP. It looks perfectly normal to me and I don't think anything except 'nice pen.'

 

Perception and how we are hard wired probably has a lot to do with it.

 

And I am sure that I must look phoney to someone when using a pen too.

[cfclark]

Pens are not pretentious. (Some) people are pretentious.

 

You may find pretentious people using a MB or other "prestige" pen, and it may in your mind contribute to their pretentiousness, but they'd be pretentious anyway. BMWs are nice, well-made cars, but they also derive a lot of sales from people who want to look like people who belong in a BMW, as well as those who want to enjoy driving. Mont Blanc gets its share of sales from people who enjoy writing, as well as from people who want to look like the kind of person who can afford an expensive pen, whether they know anything about it or not. In either case, you can't fault the company for its marketing.

 

Remember, there supposedly was a market in Parker 51 caps at one time, because some people wanted to look like the kind of guy who'd carry a 51, even if he couldn't afford it.

 

[GeGeLan]

Pens are not pretentious. (Some) people are pretentious.

 

I don't think it was a question about pens being pretentious per se, but rather about whether certain kinds of pens are more likely to be owned by people who are pretentious.

 

 

This sort of hit it on the head.

 

A friend of mine used to sell insurance (in the head office of the company no less) and it was "de rigeur" for everyone in the office to have a MB pen...fountain preferred but ALWAYS an MB. He said you were looked down on for having any other type of pen...even if it might be more expensive.

 

As for me:

 

I have a couple of Waterman BP including an older model LeMan 100 all silver. I have to have at least one as I have a carbon paper using form I have to fill out everyday...just the one mind you...and it's all I use the pen for preferring the fountain pens for everything else.

 

The pen was chosen for several reasons...

 

Number One being it is large and has a hefty weight that I find very agreeable as I write.

 

Second it writes very well...the refills are still of a very good quality.

 

Third it happened to match my 100's in the fountain pen line.

 

Fourth I like Silver. Aesthetics have much to do with the type of (name item) you are likely to chose if it is for your personal use.

 

All this is why I fell absolutely in love with the Pelikan Majesties when they came out....the ease of the internal piston filler extra icing on the cake.

 

And I am sorely tempted to get the Majesty Ball Point.

 

~ Roland

[niksch]

BMWs are nice, well-made cars, but they also derive a lot of sales from people who want to look like people who belong in a BMW, as well as those who want to enjoy driving.

 

I was waiting for someone to bring up BMWs. I drive a BMW...here's why. One day back in 2001, I was driving on the A61 heading north to Bad Kreuznach (I was living in Wiesloch at the time). There are three of us, me in a 1994 525, the guy in front of me in the same model and year 5er, and another guy behind me. We get past the A61/A6 Kreuz, and we kick it up to about 170kph or so. After a couple kilometers, the car in front of me leaves the road, goes through the ditch and gets propelled into a field. The incline of the ditch acts like a ramp and the 5er flies up in the air flips end for end and then rolls at least twice, then lands right side up (or wheels down). In Germany, you are required to stop to render assistance, and I was running across that field, the guy opens the door and walks away.

 

Been driving BMWs ever since, usually with a MB or two in my jacket or case.

Edited April 7, 2009 by niksch

[cfclark]

BMWs are nice, well-made cars, but they also derive a lot of sales from people who want to look like people who belong in a BMW, as well as those who want to enjoy driving.

 

I was waiting for someone to bring up BMWs. I drive a BMW...here's why. One day back in 2001, I was driving on the A61 heading north to Bad Kreuznach (I was living in Wiesloch at the time). There are three of us, me in a 1994 525, the guy in front of me in the model and year 5er, and another guy behind me. We get past the A61/A6 Kreuz, and we kick it up to about 170kph or so. After a couple kilometers, the car in front of me leaves the road, goes through the ditch and gets propelled into a field. The incline of the ditch acts like a ramp and the 5er flies up in the air flips end for end and then rolls at least twice, then lands right side up (or wheels down). In Germany, you are required to stop to render assistance, and I was running across that field, the guy opens the door and walks away.

 

Been driving BMWs ever since, usually with a MB or two in my jacket or case.

 

That more or less proves my point--people who understand the engineering and people who just want the image may both benefit from the engineering, and it's pointless to try to divine their motives in their choices.

 

[wspohn]

BMWs are nice, well-made cars, but they also derive a lot of sales from people who want to look like people who belong in a BMW

 

Which is why the use of a particular BP should never be anything more than a danger sign, and should never of itself justify any conclusion about someone.

 

To use your automotive analogy, there is a very high ratio of dorks that drive Corvettes, Hummers, Vipers, and Ferraris. By no means all owners fall into the (bleep) category and I have friends (non-(bleep)) that own all of those - well, except the Hummers. But when you see someone pull up in a Viper, you are safe in taking it as a sign that you should be on the lookout for further signs of jerkitude. No one is likely to say that about, say, Lexus drivers.

 

Same thing about some makes of pen, and my point was that I have seen a higher correlation between BPs and dorkhood than I have with the FPs. Maybe using an FP makes you put up with things that you wouldn't unless you love using them.. Except for the guy that brought out a couple of MB FP - and then writes with a BP - clearly they were just window dressing of some sort (I liked that story!)

[Blade Runner]

BMWs are nice, well-made cars, but they also derive a lot of sales from people who want to look like people who belong in a BMW

 

Which is why the use of a particular BP should never be anything more than a danger sign, and should never of itself justify any conclusion about someone.

 

 

That's not what you said in your original post:

"But when I see people carrying MB BPs, which write exactly as well and no better than any other BP with the same sort of refill, I think that the only possible reason the person could have that pen is pretension, because there is no functional difference between it and a Bic."

[girlieg33k]

I have seen a higher correlation between BPs and dorkhood than I have with the FPs.

I think if a BP user (even a plebian BIC user) viewed this thread right here on the Fountain Pen Network they'd wonder about one's definition of "dorkhood".

[wspohn]

BMWs are nice, well-made cars, but they also derive a lot of sales from people who want to look like people who belong in a BMW

 

Which is why the use of a particular BP should never be anything more than a danger sign, and should never of itself justify any conclusion about someone.

 

 

That's not what you said in your original post:

"But when I see people carrying MB BPs, which write exactly as well and no better than any other BP with the same sort of refill, I think that the only possible reason the person could have that pen is pretension, because there is no functional difference between it and a Bic."

 

Those aren't inconsistent. I do think that about them, or more accurately it raises suspicions - and then I look for other inditiae to confirm or deny my first impression.

 

That impression may be incorrect for any of the reasons we've gone oevr - maybe he has a FP as well and uses them as a duo, maybe he was given the pen, but maybe he DID buy it because it strokes his ego. Time will tell, and often quite quickly, which alternative is likely.

[kazoolaw]

Duplicity movie - Paul Giamotti character - "Who writes with fountain pens any more? How pretentiousz!"

 

gary

 

ps got me a big jab in the ribs from SWMBO

Edited April 8, 2009 by gary

[Blade Runner]

BMWs are nice, well-made cars, but they also derive a lot of sales from people who want to look like people who belong in a BMW

 

Which is why the use of a particular BP should never be anything more than a danger sign, and should never of itself justify any conclusion about someone.

 

 

That's not what you said in your original post:

"But when I see people carrying MB BPs, which write exactly as well and no better than any other BP with the same sort of refill, I think that the only possible reason the person could have that pen is pretension, because there is no functional difference between it and a Bic."

 

Those aren't inconsistent. I do think that about them, or more accurately it raises suspicions - and then I look for other inditiae to confirm or deny my first impression.

 

That impression may be incorrect for any of the reasons we've gone oevr - maybe he has a FP as well and uses them as a duo, maybe he was given the pen, but maybe he DID buy it because it strokes his ego. Time will tell, and often quite quickly, which alternative is likely.

Sorry, "...the only possible reason the person could have that pen is pretention" significantly differs with your current more open minded position.

It's something to congratulate, not deny.

 

[FredRydr]

Those are awfully pretentious postcards, Jeen.

 

Fred

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jelb/IMG_0068.jpg

[wspohn]

Sorry, "...the only possible reason the person could have that pen is pretention" significantly differs with your current more open minded position.

It's something to congratulate, not deny.

 

Actually, my opinion and reactions haven't changed, but you have correctly pointed out that I should have stated it more carefully (or moderately). I don't think in absolutes - the most I'd go from seeing a fancy BP is maybe "I'll bet he will turn out to be a (bleep)". In fact I am more pleased to have that first impression reversed than confirmed - I'd much rather find something I can share with the person - an interest in pens - than find out he is just another jerky self centred lawyer (or other sort, of course, I just see more lawyers than laymen that are jerks of that ilk).