Naginata Togi nibs from Sailor

[greencobra]

Does anyone use a Togi nib. I'm mulling over getting a MF but looking at the review section here I'm not getting details really. Wondering what your thoughts are on these if you have one.

[rokurinpapa]

I have got Sailor 95th Realo with Naginata-Togi M. At first I do not like the nib.

My statement in the review:

I think I can not master the special nib perfectly. I am not good at calligraphy.

And the width of the line is too broad for me at my ordinary angle of writing.

The pen is smooth but rustles a little and I felt rough slightly like Aurora pens.

Above all, I became disappointed with the skip of the ink (in spite of using

attached Sailor Jentle Black Ink). So I went to a "pen clinic" by Mr. Akihiro

Kawaguchi* held in Itoya, Ginza, Tokyo. He repaired the pen in the twinkling

of an eye. The cause was the gap between the nib and the feeder. After that

I asked a professional artisan to regrind the nib finely. Finally I have become

almost satisfied with the nib.

 

Now I like the nib very much. I have become familiar with the nib more and more.

I am happy when I use the nib. So I use the Realo every day. Regarding the

width, I think MF is better.

 

rokurinpapa

Edited November 1, 2009 by rokurinpapa

[Siv]

I had a N-MF and now have a N-B. The N-MF showed more noticable line variation in my writing but the N-B can actually have a much greater range when some attention is paid to how you use it.

 

In the end, I don't think I am sophisticated enough to get the best from the pen and I stick to stubs to add character to my writing. I do, however, keep the N-B for really fat juicy signatures.

[troglokev]

I'll add some data to the discussion. Here's a writing sample, using my N-MF nib.

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/4062330647_4a75ec436e_b.jpg

[Shinchan]

Does anyone use a Togi nib. I'm mulling over getting a MF but looking at the review section here I'm not getting details really. Wondering what your thoughts are on these if you have one.

 

I am using a Sailor 1911 with Naginata Togi MF nib. You can check my previous pen review as well.

 

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_3b0jnFyM9rc/Su0NYC6kdpI/AAAAAAAAA4c/iKcIZqpAIgQ/s800/P1010205.JPG

[greencobra]

Thanks for your thoughts, and troglokev, your writing sample was useful, thanks so much for posting it.

 

edited to say: yours too Shinchan,you must have thrown it up when I was writing the reply. Very helpful.

Edited November 1, 2009 by greencobra

[Shinchan]

Thanks for your thoughts, and troglokev, your writing sample was useful, thanks so much for posting it.

 

edited to say: yours too Shinchan,you must have thrown it up when I was writing the reply. Very helpful.

 

No problem. This pen is my daily workhorse. Let me know if you have any further queries.

[gyasko]

I like mine quite a bit, which is a personal favourite. I posted a writing sample a while ago. It's in this thread.

 

My hovercraft is not full of eels.

[troglokev]

My hovercraft is not full of eels.

Edited November 1, 2009 by troglokev

[pixwriter]

with respect, none of the writing samples show anything helpful about what the NMF nib is capable of, in terms of performance and line variation. This is why I thought that a pinned topic of samples of writing with Sailor speciality nibs would be good

[Dr.Grace]

I don't think the NT is designed so much for intentional line variation. You would have to practice a lot with varying your pen hold during a stroke to achieve that, and most people don't write that way.

[greencobra]

Line vatiation? This is not another variation of an italic is it? It doesn't look like it's ground that way. My understanding is the Togi nibs are all hand finished to achieve a certain smoothness and flow to allow the writer to use both western and Japanese characters. The nib is a bit longer to provide the tines with a little "give" but never approaching flexy standards. I think I misunderstood what the nib was about.

 

This probably explains why I've read several comments from users who stated they "didn't know how to use nib correctly." That's what I was after when I posted but never mentioned that fact cause I wanted a wider range of comments.

[pixwriter]

I posted a reply in this thread trying to explain,

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=115582&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

 

The line variation is not due to changes in pressure, or flex or the angle and I would not say it is like an italic.

It is different to both and the nib is capable of writing in a number of different ways.

What is quite difficult at first is consistency, it is as if it has several sweet spots.

If you are sliding from one to another it will just look messy, so I do think it takes time and a bit of practice to get the best out of the nib.

 

If someone who knows how to post photos on the thread gives me their email address I can e-mail them the photo to post. I can't manage it at the moment.

[Siv]

Helen, you know my email address - send me the pics and I'll put them up.

 

I'm quite excited to see what the Togi is capable of as a luddite like me fails to get the best from the nib.

[pixwriter]

Ok, you set the bar way too high there, Siv.

It is pretty sloppy stuff as I tried to do it fast, so it was realistic, and I tried to do as many variants of how I use it/know it can be used as I could on one page. It was actually quite hard to deliberately vary the writing so much. Normally I would just pick up the pen and write a whole page in one particular way.

Its as good for fast, smooth note taking as it is for more careful script.

 

Its Apica paper, I don't usually use lined paper, but I understand the need for scale.

 

Finally, its hard to know what to write, so there are chunks of a Charles Causely poem, 'The Healing of a Lunatic Boy' in there.

 

Thanks for your help. I can do some other speciality nib samples if you are interested.

[gyasko]

I like mine very much, but for me the line variation is not so noticeable. I got it because it is a super writer and for the feel it gives.

 

If i look at the Sailor sales pitch for these things, it tells me it's for getting the right brush-like line variation on certain kanji strokes. However, doing that means writing very, very slowly and changing the angle of attack as one makes strokes. If i were to practice i might get the hang of it, but i don't have the patience for that, and in any case, i have a lot of improvement to make with my kanji before i start worrying about things like that. I might be getting some unconscious line variation due to the way i write and the way i hold my paper. I'd have to look at my notes to tell, however, because it's not something that jumps out at you. All the same, the togi can be a very nice writer because it's made to produce lines at all sorts of angles. It's a very tolerant nib.

 

I think the pictures are accurate in that they show what one is likely to get out of the nib with everyday use.

Edited November 2, 2009 by gyasko

[Siv]

All I can say is - WOW!

 

pixwriter's Naginata Togi writing sample:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3232/4069200436_63b1268769_o.jpg

[Dr.Grace]

pixwriter, that's amazing!

 

Frankly, I don't have a clue how you did that. Could you perhaps try to describe your method in more detail?

[pixwriter]

I am not sure how much help it would be as I an a left-handed underwriter but I will try.

 

I have been thinking about how it works. If you look at the underside of the nib, the overall outline is shaped like an upside-down armourial shield. (I have seen good close-ups but couldn't re-find them.) That shape is domed up towards the middle from either side to a flattish triangular top that runs back from the tip. This flattish top is narrow at the tip of the nib and wider as you move away.

 

So, if you use the pen 'straight,' as you usually would, you will only get straight-forward different line widths that are solely dependent on the writing angle.

I agree that getting line variation this way would be impossible.

 

However, turn the nib so it is at a slight angle to the paper, so that you are also using the side of the nib slightly. Then you can get considerable line variation from the very slight changes in which area of the nib is in contact with the paper as you write normally. Then it is just a matter of feedback from what you produce, perhaps exaggerating the movements slightly to increase an effect you like.

 

Of course what happens at first is a bit all over the place. It takes a bit of practice to find and keep to the same point on a very smooth nib. If you look near the bottom of the page on the left where the word 'Trees' is just above 'Tigers' you can see I got the first T all wrong. I was swapping from one style to another and I started at the wrong angle. It was all written very fast, pretty much as fast as I can write, though. Its not a slow process like using a flex nib and is much easier on the hand.

 

I hope that makes sense, let me know if not.

[troglokev]

Thanks for this: I'll have to give it a try. It looks like you've found the secret to this pen!

 

Here's a photo of the nib showing the shape:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3278/3112898510_5e8a4d70f1_m.jpg

 

Edit to say that, having given this a quick try, I'm getting more variation. Good tip! I'll need to work on this...

Edited November 3, 2009 by troglokev