Where Is The Pelikan M205 Made?

[AMlines]

I was trying to figure out where Pelikan pens are manufactured and have come up with a blank. I looked around on FPN and again couldn't readily find this bit of info.

 

I know the cap says Germany, but what exactly does that mean? Is it just that the company in HQ'd in Germany? To come to the point, is any part of the pen manufactured outside Germany, and not to put too fine a point on it, is it made in China?

 

Thanks

[Tweel]

As far as I know, all parts of their pens are made at their factory in Peine, Germany (headquarters are in Hannover), except for specialty items, such as the acetate sheets for bindes, which are made in Italy, and maki-e lacquer work done in Japan.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Tweel

[Bo Bo Olson]

Agreed with Tweel.

MB and Lamy still make their pens in Gemany. Been to the Lamy Factory soem 6 years ago. Very heavily automated, to fight China.

Think Diplomat and Senator; which makes a cartridge 149 are still in Germany.

I'm not sure about Kaweco, once it was made in Greece but I think moved back to Germany five or six years ago..

[A Smug Dill]

To come to the point, is any part of the pen manufactured outside Germany, and not to put too fine a point on it, is it made in China?

 

Does it really matter even if, say, the seal/plug end of the piston in the M20x was made in China? I don't mean the question as an exploration of which parts would be acceptable (to you personally) if they were made in China and which parts wouldn't be. It's just a response addressing the clause in your question that reads, "is any part of the pen manufactured outside Germany"; even if the question was answered, you still wouldn't get a breakdown of which parts are made where, but only a yes-or-no answer. And what if that part was made in Malaysia, India, France or Austria — or anywhere else other than either Germany or China? What would be your view, stance and/or action in response to that?

Edited September 8, 2019 by A Smug Dill

[MuddyWaters]

Smug, you would have made a good lawyer, logician or philosopher. Are you occupied in any of these careers?

[Parker51]

Smug, you would have made a good lawyer, logician or philosopher. Are you occupied in any of these careers?

I disagree. I know some good lawyers and I studied under some academics of the type you mentioned. They were without exemption nice people who cultivated positive relationships in a gentle self confident manner.

I project Smug as an engineer or scientist. I studied with many Engineers and Scientists and he reminds me of some of them. They were and are highly intelligent, highly capable, but not particularly other centered people. One in particular I know who still 40 years on works quite successfully for a Major US Defence Contractor.

I thought I could be one once, but I found that I did not have the ability to look at the world in the way some of them do and focus primarily on meeting my personal needs, using my intelectual capabilities as tools, and instead have devoted my life to helping people while thinking actively about what I do and why I do it. I became disillusioned to the idea that as an engineer I could make the world better through conversations with my advisor and other engineering faculty at CMU who had gone into their respective fields with the greatest of intentions, but became seduced by money and prestige.

I have met a few engineers and scientists who have tried to and have done well for the world as well as themselves and their families, but it has been hard for them. I know one in particular who has had to avoid promotions and more lucrative financial opportunities so as to allow him to focus on his research, his family, his church and his volunteer work. Perhaps he is not unique, but in conversations with him he presented it as a path that he didn't believe his peers understood or accepted. I have heard variations on this story from others, some just beginning their careers and some who had to carve another path so they could do something simialer and who are now retired.

 

Now, could we please return to pens.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Parker51

[sirgilbert357]

I disagree. I know some good lawyers and I studied under some academics of the type you mentioned. They were without exemption nice people who cultivated positive relationships in a gentle self confident manner.

 

I project Smug as an engineer. I also studied with many of Engineers and he reminds me of several of them. They were and are highly intelligent, highly capable, but not particularly nice people. One in particular I know still 40 years on works quite successfully for a Major US Defence Contractor. I thought I could be one once, but I found that I did not have the ability to look at the world in the way an engineer does and instead have devoted my life to helping people. I was once arrogant, driven by intelect and insecurity. One History teacher, with my classmates in agreement suggested I was back then the type of person who could and would be able to engage in total war, irrespective of the cost in lives. He was also our school Football Coach, said I as his best student and gave me the highest marks in that class. I suspect he respected my intelligence and capabilities but otherwise had a somewhat different opinion of me. That is how I feel about Dill.

 

Now, could we please return to pens.

Wow. A post like that, and we're supposed to just go right back to pens?? That's asking a lot, lol. I'm thinking you might get a couple of responses before we all just go back to pens...

[AMlines]

 

Does it really matter even if, say, the seal/plug end of the piston in the M20x was made in China? I don't mean the question as an exploration of which parts would be acceptable (to you personally) if they were made in China and which parts wouldn't be. It's just a response addressing the clause in your question that reads, "is any part of the pen manufactured outside Germany"; even if the question was answered, you still wouldn't get a breakdown of which parts are made where, but only a yes-or-no answer. And what if that part was made in Malaysia, India, France or Austria — or anywhere else other than either Germany or China? What would be your view, stance and/or action in response to that?

 

Well, I guess I am okay as long as there are no quality control issues. But I would still want to know if key parts are being made in China or any place that may not have the best reputation for high quality manufacturing.

[AMlines]

As far as I know, all parts of their pens are made at their factory in Peine, Germany (headquarters are in Hannover), except for specialty items, such as the acetate sheets for bindes, which are made in Italy, and maki-e lacquer work done in Japan.

Great. Thanks for the confirmation.

[senzen]

German company, owned by Malaysians (?), enjoyed by anyone anywhere who's tried their pens.

 

Does it matter if it's made in Germany? Well they certainly built and earned a reputation for quality, just as Japan did: it wasn't always thus; is every German product of high quality? Hell no, Lamy Studios are really nice looking pens with really fragile finishes. Are there big problems from time to time? Sure, see the Berlin airport if you enjoy a good laugh. But in a world bound by the internet which finally filled with noise, lies and manipulation, it sure is refreshing to use a well made, reliable product. If I have to go on a trip I'll reach for my Pelikans first, no way am I taking a Parker Sonnet.

 

Compare to "made in China", the related forum here seems to always follow the same logic: "Look how cheap! Ha ha it's like that big brand for 10 times less!" followed by "oh the cap cracked".

 

The big cloud hanging over German mittlestand and Japanese corporations is their inability to think in terms of systems, starting with their customers, as opposed to thinking only about products. But then their competitors are still far, far behind, they don't even get the basics of "invest beyond this week" or the mere notion of customer value.

[A Smug Dill]

Well, I guess I am okay as long as there are no quality control issues.

The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak. Irrespective of where the pen — in part or in whole — is made, you could still get either a perfect specimen or a dud out of the box. If you unfortunately happen to get a dud, then that's a quality control issue; but, if you manage to get a perfect specimen, then what does it matter if the factory has QC issues and the yield (i.e. percentage of its products that are without defects or problems) is only 75%?

 

But I would still want to know if key parts are being made in China or any place that may not have the best reputation for high quality manufacturing.

Sure, but you aren't going to know. At best (and that's a very big "if") you get an answer as to whether the pen is wholly made in Germany, it would be a yes or a no, not a detailed breakdown of which part (or how large a proportion) of the pen is made where.

 

I have three M20x that are currently inked, and they have no manufacturing issues or defects as far as I'm aware. Three out of three ain't bad.

[AMlines]

The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak. Irrespective of where the pen — in part or in whole — is made, you could still get either a perfect specimen or a dud out of the box. If you unfortunately happen to get a dud, then that's a quality control issue; but, if you manage to get a perfect specimen, then what does it matter if the factory has QC issues and the yield (i.e. percentage of its products that are without defects or problems) is only 75%?

 

 

Sure, but you aren't going to know. At best (and that's a very big "if") you get an answer as to whether the pen is wholly made in Germany, it would be a yes or a no, not a detailed breakdown of which part (or how large a proportion) of the pen is made where.

 

I have three M20x that are currently inked, and they have no manufacturing issues or defects as far as I'm aware. Three out of three ain't bad.

 

Yes, I see what you mean. And, I agree that if writers get a good unit out of the box, and one that lasts, then one needn't worry about it's origin.

 

When you say dud, you mean, it won't write at all? Do I need to be testing the new pen in some way to know that everything works as it should?

 

Thanks!

[A Smug Dill]

When you say dud, you mean, it won't write at all?

Any part of a fountain pen has the potential to be defective on arrival, with possibly multiple failure modes. The cap could be defective and not hold tight in spite of being screwed on carefully, or it could be ineffective at sealing the section and preventing the nib and feed from drying out when capped, or the resin could exhibit hairline cracks, or the clip or cap finial may be physically loose; and so on. The nib may have misaligned tines, baby's bottom, inverted canyon, or be scratchy, too wet or too dry, or writes far broader than is reasonable for the nib width grade imprinted on it, or is prone to skipping on strokes in a particular direction; and so on. The piston knob and piston mechanism may have problems. The pen barrel could exhibit defects.

 

Do I need to be testing the new pen in some way to know that everything works as it should?

Weren't you intending to anyway? I mean, wouldn't you inspect the pen closely for defects in the material or physical damage (possibly) sustained in transit, then ink it up (and thereby check that the piston knob and mechanism are working as the should) and write with it; and, in capping the pen and putting in down for several hours before writing with it next, be having a preliminary check on the effectiveness of the cap at sealing the section?

 

There are practically countless ways in which a pen can be imperfect. Luckily, I haven't encountered any of them on my M20x pens; but then I haven't been looking really hard trying to find fault with them.

 

On the other hand, two out of two new Aurora Cento Italia (100th Anniversary commemorative limited edition) pens -- of different models -- I bought this year arrived with very noticeable defects on its nibs, even though it wasn't a case of they "won't write at all". One got fixed when I was sent a replacement section and nib; the other one was sent back to the retailer overseas at its expense, and the order fully refunded. That's why lately Pelikan and Lamy have become the European brands on which I'm spending my "budget" for my fountain pen "hobby", even though I liked and trusted Aurora previously and spent several thousand on its pens.

Edited September 8, 2019 by A Smug Dill

[AMlines]

Weren't you intending to anyway? I mean, wouldn't you inspect the pen closely for defects in the material or physical damage (possibly) sustained in transit, then ink it up (and thereby check that the piston knob and mechanism are working as the should) and write with it; and, in capping the pen and putting in down for several hours before writing with it next, be having a preliminary check on the effectiveness of the cap at sealing the section?

Well, this might sound naive, but when I am getting a $150 pen then I assume it will have been checked for those issues before being shipped out.

That said, now that you mention this, I will keep these points in mind and check for issues.

On the other hand, two out of two new Aurora Cento Italia (100th Anniversary commemorative limited edition) pens — in different models — I bought this year arrived with very noticeable defects on its nibs, even though it wasn't a case of they "won't write at all". One got fixed when I was sent a replacement section and nib; the other one was sent back to the retailer overseas at its expense, and the order fully refunded. That's why lately Pelikan and Lamy have become the European brands on which I'm spending my "budget" for my fountain pen "hobby", even though I liked and trusted Aurora previously and spent several thousand on its pens.

Interesting. And presumably, these were not cheap pens. I hope the Pelikan turns out fine, so I can turn to writing with it full-time.

[Freddy]

I was trying to figure out where Pelikan pens are manufactured and have come up with a blank. I looked around on FPN and again couldn't readily find this bit of info.

 

I know the cap says Germany, but what exactly does that mean? Is it just that the company in HQ'd in Germany? To come to the point, is any part of the pen manufactured outside Germany, and not to put too fine a point on it, is it made in China?

 

Thanks

Pelikan moved production from Hanover to Vohrum, Germany......

Been usin' M200 series for a long time without any problemo......Given away many Transparent M200 fountain pens..

again without incident.....Our experience........Found an old scan I made five years ago of Transparent series

which btw..still usin' 'em{since '00-'03}/.....Green..Red..Royal Blue..Anthracite..Amber....Steel nibs...some are killer.....

don't mind the Omas student pen......

 

A good day...Ain't no bead on me......

Fred

[A Smug Dill]

Well, this might sound naive, but when I am getting a $150 pen then I assume it will have been checked for those issues before being shipped out.

 

Some retailers may do that, but I seriously doubt they will inspect and test every pen sold for US$150 or more before it goes out the door.

 

Then, when I order a new Sailor fountain pen, at least half the time it would arrive still sealed inside a clear plastic sleeve apparently applied before leaving the manufacturer's premises; the nibs and sections obviously haven't been inspected by the retailers. Given the volume of Sailor

 

Aurora pens are, in my experience, the only pens that -- irrespective of which retailer from whom I bought -- almost invariably have some remnant of blue ink in the feeds on my new pens, that become apparent when I run clean water through them before I ink them for the first time. My conclusion (or assumption) is therefore Aurora must be testing the nibs at the factory before sending them on to the distributors and/or retailers. Yet, among the more expensive pens/brands, Aurora is the one that has given me the highest number of nib defects out-of-the-box. (I hated the F nib on my Pelikan M805 out-of-the-box, but that wasn't a case of it being defective and wouldn't write properly and consistently.)

 

Interesting. And presumably, these were not cheap pens.

 

Nope. Here's one of them. Supposedly all made in-house in Italy, including the nib and the feed, too.

[Freddy]

AMlines..For your consideration...if you want your pen inspected and nib tuned prior to shipping....

Check out Linda & Mike at indy-pen-dance dot com

Excellent folks to deal with.....They will tune each nib at no extra charge..unless of course you

tell 'em not......I see some Pelikan M200 series fountain pens under $150 usd.....

Fred

What's it all about boy, elucidate.............Foghorn Leghorn

[AMlines]

AMlines..For your consideration...if you want your pen inspected and nib tuned prior to shipping....

Check out Linda & Mike at indy-pen-dance dot com

Excellent folks to deal with.....They will tune each nib at no extra charge..unless of course you

tell 'em not......I see some Pelikan M200 series fountain pens under $150 usd.....

Fred

What's it all about boy, elucidate.............Foghorn Leghorn

 

Thanks. I should be getting the pen tomorrow, but I'll keep these sellers in mind next I am buying a pen

[Honeybadgers]

Nome, Alaska.

 

Not many people know that.

[Honeybadgers]

Well, this might sound naive, but when I am getting a $150 pen then I assume it will have been checked for those issues before being shipped out.

That said, now that you mention this, I will keep these points in mind and check for issues.

Interesting. And presumably, these were not cheap pens. I hope the Pelikan turns out fine, so I can turn to writing with it full-time.

 

unfortunately, the only pen brand you can basically guarantee will be free from issues from the factory are those made by sailor and pilot. Pelikan's m20x are quire rare to have issues, but their more expensive gold nibs have more. And the more expensive you go, the more often it seems like nib issues crop up.

 

I adore the 205's design. I would warn everyone away from the demonstrater model because it stains instantly and scratches on itself within two days of use, but every other finish is great. The ability to fit vintage 400 semiflex 14k nibs is a huge bonus too.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Honeybadgers