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Cursive Lowercase "r"


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Poll: Lowercase cursive "r" (458 member(s) have cast votes)

How do you write your cursive lowercase "r"? (please see picture)

  1. 1. Upright stroke followed by a small "hook". (132 votes [26.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.99%

  2. 2. Slanted upstroke, then a gentle slide downwards, followed by a steep curve downwards. (311 votes [63.60%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.60%

  3. 3. I always capitalize the "R" (even within lowercase text). (6 votes [1.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.23%

  4. 4. Some other way (feel free to specify below). (36 votes [7.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.36%

  5. 5. I always skip the lowercase letter "r" when I write anything! (4 votes [0.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.82%

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#1 Mr Ink

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:57

As a matter of curiosity, how do you write your cursive lowercase (minuscule) letter "r"?

Multiple answers are possible because I am aware that some individuals use more than one form of the letter "r", depending on its position in a given word.

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Edited by Mr Ink, 06 January 2013 - 11:23.


#2 The Good Captain

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:20

Usually, more like Image 1 but sometimes it will be anywhere between 1 and 2. I'd only print or use 3 when writing a capital letter.

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#3 pmhudepo

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:24

I voted for option/image 2 because that's what I use most often. However, option 1 occasionally sneaks in, particularly at the end of a word.

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#4 wyldphyre

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 13:30

I went with option 1 because it's fairly close to what I do (see below).

As for the second character in the OP's image, I'd love to be able to talk to the person/people who decided to write a cursive lowercase 'r' that way in the first place. Not trying to to offend anyone, but every time I see someone write an 'r' like that I cringe and can't help but think they need to be shown what an 'r' actually looks like :headsmack: .


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#5 gawain3

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 13:34

This is the r the nuns taught me oh so many years ago. I've tried others, but this one will not go away. :rolleyes:

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#6 Mr Ink

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 14:18

Although only a few people have voted so far, I find the comments that have been posted very interesting. Thank you all.

I had been taught in primary school (run by Catholic nuns, if that matters) to write my lowercase "r" as in image 2, but I was never happy with the results of my efforts. Eventually, at a very young age, I decided to change to the "r" depicted in image 1. It somehow felt "better" to write it that way, and I persist to this day. Without meaning any disrespect to anyone, I could never understand how the letter-form in image 2 could represent the letter "r", because it did not resemble the printed form of that letter (at least to my eye).

I was reading somewhere on the Internet that a more recent fashion, in many parts of the USA as well as France and a few other European countries, is to capitalize the letter (i.e. as R) throughout the text. I was rather surprised by this and was wondering why such a change would have developed.

Edited by Mr Ink, 06 January 2013 - 14:18.


#7 mirosc

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 15:46

Without meaning any disrespect to anyone, I could never understand how the letter-form in image 2 could represent the letter "r", because it did not resemble the printed form of that letter (at least to my eye).

It does, if you know the origin of this letterform.
It's quite old, going back more than 1800 years and is derived from a OR-ligature. You can compare it to the OE-ligature: Œ, like in the french oeuvre, or the AE-ligature like in Æthelstan. The upright stem of the R is left out and so the rest of the R looked a bit like the number 2. Later the angle between the upper round curve and the diagonal line is rounded for faster writing. In former times OR was elongated and got a vertical stroke to show some abbreviations so that the result looked a bit like the number 4.
This version of the R was only used in ligatures, but in modern times they were looking for a fast cursive and re-introduced this letterform and gave it a completely unhistorical upstroke, so that they could use it in their writings. So this "r" is in reality a "R" from the end of a word and it's missing its vertical stem.
Palaeographically speaking this "r" (your number 2) is utter nonsense, but it's serving a purpose nonetheless.
Greetings,
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#8 peterpen53

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:28

In school I was taught the lowercase r as in sample 2, but when I adopted italic I moved to sample 1. And I always lift my pen after an r so no ligature. Number 3 only serves as a capital letter although I usually add a bit of a flourish.
And no offense, but I think I could never write an r like gawain3 does.
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#9 Mickey

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:35


Without meaning any disrespect to anyone, I could never understand how the letter-form in image 2 could represent the letter "r", because it did not resemble the printed form of that letter (at least to my eye).

It does, if you know the origin of this letterform.
It's quite old, going back more than 1800 years and is derived from a OR-ligature. You can compare it to the OE-ligature: Œ, like in the french oeuvre, or the AE-ligature like in Æthelstan. The upright stem of the R is left out and so the rest of the R looked a bit like the number 2. Later the angle between the upper round curve and the diagonal line is rounded for faster writing. In former times OR was elongated and got a vertical stroke to show some abbreviations so that the result looked a bit like the number 4.
This version of the R was only used in ligatures, but in modern times they were looking for a fast cursive and re-introduced this letterform and gave it a completely unhistorical upstroke, so that they could use it in their writings. So this "r" is in reality a "R" from the end of a word and it's missing its vertical stem.
Palaeographically speaking this "r" (your number 2) is utter nonsense, but it's serving a purpose nonetheless.


Interesting information, as is usual from you, and, as is not usual, it stimulated a little thought on my part. I throw out this hair-brained theory for your consideration. I have no paleographic evidence to offer in support of it, only my own experience and observation.

As I was (originally) taught to write the cursive r (many, many, many years ago) the sequence of strokes was an upstroke, a very tight anti-clockwise loop (upper left corner), a short, slightly slanted, curved horizontal, and, then the finishing down-stroke. Observe that if you gradually open up the tight loop (upper left corner), the resulting figure increasing resembles a Roman majuscule R, the lead in stroke replacing the original vertical-stroke and the last two strokes substituting for the diagonal leg.)

I don't know if this notion has any historical validity, but it does make a certain geometric / kinesthetic sense. (Whenever my cursive r starts to becomes suspect, I make it a point to remember the loop and the letter form quickly improves.)

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#10 ethernautrix

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:23

#2, but I love answer #5.
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#11 Achim

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:25

1 - it's nearly the same as the one of gawain3 (if I try to write neatly, that is).

#12 JonSzanto

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:30

What is this cursive you speak of? ;)
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#13 mirosc

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:31

Interesting information, as is usual from you, and, as is not usual, it stimulated a little thought on my part. I throw out this hair-brained theory for your consideration. I have no paleographic evidence to offer in support of it, only my own experience and observation.

As I was (originally) taught to write the cursive r (many, many, many years ago) the sequence of strokes was an upstroke, a very tight anti-clockwise loop (upper left corner), a short, slightly slanted, curved horizontal, and, then the finishing down-stroke. Observe that if you gradually open up the tight loop (upper left corner), the resulting figure increasing resembles a Roman majuscule R, the lead in stroke replacing the original vertical-stroke and the last two strokes substituting for the diagonal leg.)

I don't know if this notion has any historical validity, but it does make a certain geometric / kinesthetic sense. (Whenever my cursive r starts to becomes suspect, I make it a point to remember the loop and the letter form quickly improves.)


Thank you for your praise.
I'm writing the "r" also with a loop (if I am writing it that way, usually I write it like it figure 1). But this is not for historical reasons (we don't see the strokes made this way in the manuscripts - there's no upstroke, but the O is separated from the rest of the word and in a later stage it's just a "4" starting with a hook on the left), but for practical. When writing fast the "r" without a loop easily looks like a "n" something similar, but with the loop (which is rather the pen returning on a slightly different path than an actual perfect loop; in my opinion) the letterform becomes more pronounced and more legible - just like you have observed.
Greetings,
Michael

#14 jbb

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:45

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#15 glinn

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 19:42

It's probably just me but I love that Gawain3 used 'wire' as an example of a cursive 'r' when the letter form looks exactly like how I form a cursive 'n' thus the word reads 'wine'.

Gary

#16 mboschm

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 19:52

Nº 2 when writing cursive (90% of the time). If I fancy some italic, then it's nº 1, but that's something I don't often do.
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#17 HDoug

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 19:54

I learned #2, then changed handwriting to italic and it became #1, but minuscule r has a number of variants that I'm currently very fascinated with. So thanks for this post/poll!

Here is a manuscript from the 15th century that has a number of variants. The middle line has three variants if I read correctly (having no knowledge of Italian):

Comel nostro sperar torna fallacie


Posted Image

Then theres another variant that looks like a "z" and finally one that looks like a 2. I've seen them in manuscript but can't find a quick image other than in type:

Posted Image

When i find some good examples, I'll post, but please feel free (everyone) to beat me to it!

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#18 Susan3141

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:11

Like many people, I was taught #2, but ever since reading Getty/Dubay I've been trying to do #1 (sounds like potty talk). . My rs are never consistent, though, or pretty. Jbb's writing above is lovely. I wish I could make rs like that, but they always look like ns.
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#19 Draless

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:35

Heres mine


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#20 mboschm

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:49

I guess I may post a sample as well.
Mine is a catalan tong-twister, designed to teach kids pronounce the rolled "r" (and to give a hard time to those who can not): it goes "Un carro carregat de rocs corria per la carretera de Roses fent catacric-catacroc, i el carreter, carregat de ràbia, li corria al darrere" (meaning: a carriage full of rocks ran on Roses -A town- road, making cracking noises and the muleteer, full of rage, ran behind").


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#21 wyldphyre

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:10

It's probably just me but I love that Gawain3 used 'wire' as an example of a cursive 'r' when the letter form looks exactly like how I form a cursive 'n' thus the word reads 'wine'.

Gary


I thought it read 'wine' at first glance as well. Glad I'm not the only one :roflmho:

#22 restlesscourage

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 23:45

If I'm writing slowly, sometimes I get it to look like option two. But in reality...when I'm writing in cursive, the only thing that differentiates my i's, e's, and r's is the dot over the i and the possibility that I went back and made the loop of the e a bit more evident.

I've been writing with a print/cursive hybrid for years, but when I picked up a fountain pen for the first time, I found I almost HAD to write in cursive. Since that first time was less than a month ago, I'm still relearning how to write legibly in cursive. Apologies to all my pen pals. :embarrassed_smile:

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#23 Horseknitter

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 00:11

Somewhere in the back of my mind I remember being taught to use #2 in the interior of a word and gawain3's 'r' form when the letter occurred as the final one in the word Of course, that was 7th grade penmanship class in 1960 - and may no longer be relevant!

#24 gawain3

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 00:15

It's probably just me but I love that Gawain3 used 'wire' as an example of a cursive 'r' when the letter form looks exactly like how I form a cursive 'n' thus the word reads 'wine'.

Gary


Nah, not even close. :hmm1:

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#25 glinn

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 00:41


It's probably just me but I love that Gawain3 used 'wire' as an example of a cursive 'r' when the letter form looks exactly like how I form a cursive 'n' thus the word reads 'wine'.

Gary


Nah, not even close. :hmm1:

Maybe I'm just thirsty :thumbup:

Edited by glinn, 07 January 2013 - 00:41.


#26 bassmannate

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:11

If I'm writing slowly, sometimes I get it to look like option two. But in reality...when I'm writing in cursive, the only thing that differentiates my i's, e's, and r's is the dot over the i and the possibility that I went back and made the loop of the e a bit more evident.

I've been writing with a print/cursive hybrid for years, but when I picked up a fountain pen for the first time, I found I almost HAD to write in cursive. Since that first time was less than a month ago, I'm still relearning how to write legibly in cursive. Apologies to all my pen pals. :embarrassed_smile:


Yep, this is me. I've been trying to make it more evident, but when I start writing fast, it tends to look like a lower case i.

#27 thang1thang2

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:40

I tend to (when writing fast) make mine look like a hump on a camel. It's better than making it look like an 'i' but sometimes I lapse... I'll see if I can post a picture of my 'r's sometime.

#28 mboschm

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:48

Somewhere in the back of my mind I remember being taught to use #2 in the interior of a word and gawain3's 'r' form when the letter occurred as the final one in the word Of course, that was 7th grade penmanship class in 1960 - and may no longer be relevant!


The Mills Method advocates the option 1 in letters that finish "high" (such as b, w or v) and r on the other ones, so combination isn't as odd.
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#29 Ken Fraser

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:38

Here are five letters 'r' which are currently in fairly common use.

From left to right they are :-

English Roundhand (Copperplate)
Engrosser's Script
Spencerian Script
Italic
Alternative English Roundhand (Copperplate)

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#30 mirosc

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:22

Here are five letters 'r' which are currently in fairly common use.


That's a lovely and very helpful comparison. Thank you!
Greetings,
Michael