Solid 14K Gold Sheaffer - HELP!

[Prophet]

Hi all, I'm new around here but love vintage pens. I just got this great Sheaffer fountain pen and need help identifying it. It's a solid 14k gold (hallmarked 5 times - on the barrel, blind cap, clip, outer cap, and nib) model with a Touchdown filling system. I know it's not a PFM as those exclusively had the snorkels. There is no crown on the cap so I figured it's probably not the Imperial. Is it a Legacy? The inlaid nib has the word "Lifetime" on it.

 

I don't believe that the pen was ever used. It comes in the original box from Greenleaf & Crosby, one of the country's oldest jewelers (since 1868). An interesting thing I noticed is that the box says "New York - Florida" under the company's name. They were established in Florida but as I understand it, closed down their store on "5th Avenue" in the mid-20th century. They are now located on the ultra prestigious Worth Street in Palm Beach FL, as well as Vail and a couple other places.. I don't know if that's an indication as far as age or not.

 

Is this considered a rare pen? Any idea as far as what it could be worth?

 

Thanks you guys.

 

 

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn135/FP_FSN/forsale/goldpen1.jpg

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn135/FP_FSN/forsale/goldpen12.jpg

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn135/FP_FSN/forsale/goldpen9.jpg

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn135/FP_FSN/forsale/goldpen7.jpg

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn135/FP_FSN/forsale/goldpen8.jpg

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn135/FP_FSN/forsale/goldpen2.jpg

Edited March 9, 2009 by Prophet

[saintsimon]

This is an Imperial Masterpiece according to this site http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/Sheaffer...erialsEarly.htm

[DRP]

Great pen. I don't know the value but it certainly looks nice.

 

Excellent photos, also.

[Hoarder68]

Very nice pen. It would be worth a lot more if it wasn't personalized. It is the Imperial Masterpiece. I would be interested if you intend to sell, but you will have to set the price.

[Prophet]

Very nice pen. It would be worth a lot more if it wasn't personalized. It is the Imperial Masterpiece. I would be interested if you intend to sell, but you will have to set the price.

 

Is there any way that a good jeweler can remove the personalization?

[Nellie]

Is there any way that a good jeweler can remove the personalization?

. . . and I kept thinking how great that personalisation looked until I got to this post.

[Hoarder68]

Very nice pen. It would be worth a lot more if it wasn't personalized. It is the Imperial Masterpiece. I would be interested if you intend to sell, but you will have to set the price.

 

Is there any way that a good jeweler can remove the personalization?

It could be removed, but would remove about half of the gold and to be done properly, would remove the 14K marks. I would leave as is because it would be expensive to remove.

 

[PenHero]

Very nice pen. It would be worth a lot more if it wasn't personalized. It is the Imperial Masterpiece. I would be interested if you intend to sell, but you will have to set the price.

 

http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/Sheaffer/Pics/SheafferAutograph10.jpg

 

I completely disagree. The engraving is very nicely done - I think it makes the pen look quite nice. Frankly I have never understood the concept that engravings are somehow a defect. If I was considering buying it, it would not devalue the pen one dollar. I like engraved pens better than plain ones, so maybe I am biased.

 

http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/MabieTodd/Pics/MabieToddEyedropper08.jpg

 

On many early pens, ALL of the work is hand engraving.

 

Personally, I think you will be defacing the pen if you have the engraving removed. I have a solid gold Parker Waterdrop 61 where some fool had the personalization buffed off along with some of the base engraving of the pen, leaving a blank oval section where the cartouche should have been. THAT devalued the pen for sure!

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

Edited March 9, 2009 by PenHero

[Prophet]

Very nice pen. It would be worth a lot more if it wasn't personalized. It is the Imperial Masterpiece. I would be interested if you intend to sell, but you will have to set the price.

 

Is there any way that a good jeweler can remove the personalization?

It could be removed, but would remove about half of the gold and to be done properly, would remove the 14K marks. I would leave as is because it would be expensive to remove.

 

 

I'm definitely leaving it as is. I was just saying that if a potential buyer saw it as detrimental, perhaps he or she could take it to a jeweler. The original owner of this pen was a very prominent attorney in Miami during the 1950's and 60's. I think that his name adds character to the pen.

 

Anybody have any idea what this pen is worth?

Edited March 9, 2009 by Prophet

[Prophet]

I completely disagree. The engraving is very nicely done - I think it makes the pen look quite nice. Frankly I have never understood the concept that engravings are somehow a defect. If I was considering buying it, it would not devalue the pen one dollar. I like engraved pens better than plain ones, so maybe I am biased.

 

Personally, I think you will be defacing the pen if you have the engraving removed. I have a solid gold Parker Waterdrop 61 where some fool had the personalization buffed off along with some of the base engraving of the pen, leaving a blank oval section where the cartouche should have been. THAT devalued the pen for sure!

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

 

Jim, thanks so much for your professional opinion.

 

[Pepin]

I feel that there are two types of people in the market:

 

Hardcore collector and pen enthusiasts. I will say that 90% or more belong to the latter category, and for these people, they buy to use. For this reason, personalization of any kind ultimately hurts the value of the pen. I make it my philosophy to not buy engraved pens because I do use them from time to time. So really, the price will be commanded by the market, and you will get the highest value with hardcore collector that are willing to pay top prices. However, what is certain is that removing the personalization will decrease its original value.

[Hoarder68]

I feel that there are two types of people in the market:

 

Hardcore collector and pen enthusiasts. I will say that 90% or more belong to the latter category, and for these people, they buy to use. For this reason, personalization of any kind ultimately hurts the value of the pen. I make it my philosophy to not buy engraved pens because I do use them from time to time. So really, the price will be commanded by the market, and you will get the highest value with hardcore collector that are willing to pay top prices. However, what is certain is that removing the personalization will decrease its original value.

I agree whole heartedly. I mean the pen would have commanded a higher price from most buyers had it not been personalized.

 

[Hoarder68]

Very nice pen. It would be worth a lot more if it wasn't personalized. It is the Imperial Masterpiece. I would be interested if you intend to sell, but you will have to set the price.

 

http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/Sheaffer/Pics/SheafferAutograph10.jpg

 

I completely disagree. The engraving is very nicely done - I think it makes the pen look quite nice. Frankly I have never understood the concept that engravings are somehow a defect. If I was considering buying it, it would not devalue the pen one dollar. I like engraved pens better than plain ones, so maybe I am biased.

 

http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/MabieTodd/Pics/MabieToddEyedropper08.jpg

 

On many early pens, ALL of the work is hand engraving.

 

Personally, I think you will be defacing the pen if you have the engraving removed. I have a solid gold Parker Waterdrop 61 where some fool had the personalization buffed off along with some of the base engraving of the pen, leaving a blank oval section where the cartouche should have been. THAT devalued the pen for sure!

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

This is an entirely different story. Pens directly from the factory with engraving have not been altered. You can ask most watch, pen and knife collectors and they will tell you they are worth more if not personalized.

 

[PenHero]

I feel that there are two types of people in the market:

 

Hardcore collector and pen enthusiasts. I will say that 90% or more belong to the latter category, and for these people, they buy to use. For this reason, personalization of any kind ultimately hurts the value of the pen. I make it my philosophy to not buy engraved pens because I do use them from time to time. So really, the price will be commanded by the market, and you will get the highest value with hardcore collector that are willing to pay top prices. However, what is certain is that removing the personalization will decrease its original value.

 

I disagree. This view is entirely opinion, not a statement of facts. My opinion follows:

 

There is no empirical, blue book, law that states that an engraved pen is inferior to or worth less than a non-engraved pen. In fact, many collectors admire high quality engraving work. I have been in pen meetings and at pen shows where collectors were quite interested in pointing out exceptional engraving work on high end pens. You should see some of the work done on early pens. Did you look at the solid 14K Mabie Todd pen in the photo I posted above? Look at the cartouche on the pen and the three initials in it. Can you tell where the normal hand engraving on that pen starts and the personalization begins? Why is this pen worth less than one without it?

 

http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/MabieTodd/Pics/MabieToddEyedropper08.jpg

 

How about the meticulously recreated signatures on the cap bands of Sheaffer Autograph pens? Isn't there art in that? I have a whole pen drawer full of pens like these and some of them are among the ones I use the most. Why is a plain Autograph more desirable than one with a beautiful signature?

 

Engravings are not defects unless badly done. When I grade pens for sale, I only point out the engraving. I price them the same. There is no real value difference, except, and I will give you this one point, to the collector who wants an unengraved pen. That person is paying a premium, and in my opinion, wasting their money to get a "clean" pen. Are they going to put their own name on it?

 

Pens are not Vestal Virgins. They are writing tools. Personal objects used by people, often personalized for them. This adds character and value, not the other way round.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

Edited March 9, 2009 by PenHero

[Hoarder68]

I feel that there are two types of people in the market:

 

Hardcore collector and pen enthusiasts. I will say that 90% or more belong to the latter category, and for these people, they buy to use. For this reason, personalization of any kind ultimately hurts the value of the pen. I make it my philosophy to not buy engraved pens because I do use them from time to time. So really, the price will be commanded by the market, and you will get the highest value with hardcore collector that are willing to pay top prices. However, what is certain is that removing the personalization will decrease its original value.

 

I disagree. This view is entirely opinion, not a statement of facts. My opinion follows:

 

There is no empirical, blue book, law that states that an engraved pen is inferior to or worth less than a non-engraved pen. In fact, many collectors admire high quality engraving work. I have been in pen meetings and at pen shows where collectors were quite interested in pointing out exceptional engraving work on high end pens. You should see some of the work done on early pens. Did you look at the solid 14K Mabie Todd pen in the photo I posted above? Look at the cartouche on the pen and the three initials in it. Can you tell where the normal hand engraving on that pen starts and the personalization begins? Why is this pen worth less than one without it?

 

http://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/MabieTodd/Pics/MabieToddEyedropper08.jpg

 

How about the meticulously recreated signatures on the cap bands of Sheaffer Autograph pens? Isn't there art in that? I have a whole pen drawer full of pens like these and some of them are among the ones I use the most. Why is a plain Autograph more desirable than one with a beautiful signature?

 

Engravings are not defects unless badly done. When I grade pens for sale, I only point out the engraving. I price them the same. There is no real value difference, except, and I will give you this one point, to the collector who wants an unengraved pen. That person is paying a premium, and in my opinion, wasting their money to get a "clean" pen. Are they going to put their own name on it?

 

Pens are not Vestal Virgins. They are writing tools. Personal objects used by people, often personalized for them. This adds character and value, not the other way round.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com

Without the personalization the Mabie Todd would be more desirable to a large majority of collectors. If your preference is personalization you should try to buy the pen. I think the engraving is very professional but my preference is as from factory.

[Prophet]

I hope I don't sound like a broken record, but does anyone have an opinion as to what this pen may be worth?