Iron Gall Ink

[davidspitzer]

I am going to attempt one of the original recipes for Iron Gall Ink using the Fermentation method and Logwood (the recipe was obtained from the conservator at the Library of Congress) - it is said to make a very rich black ink. I will post my results in a couple of weeks after it is done.

 

the ink is made with the following ingredients

 

Tannic acid - made fermented wood gall (this is what takes the two weeks)

Iron (II) sulfate - powder form

Water - distilled

Gum arabic - for cosistency and suspension on the paper

Logwood chips - boiled for and distilled for the dye (to give the ink a darker initial color)

 

I'll post updates and photos of the process as it progresses along with the final product and writing samples

Edited January 7, 2009 by davidspitzer

[WillSW]

Will the final product (in theory at least) be safe for your fountain pens?

[davidspitzer]

Will the final product (in theory at least) be safe for your fountain pens?

 

No it will tear up a fountain pen (iron oxides) but in a pump pen or dip pen there is no prettier ink for copperplate or spencerian, plus it is waterproof when dried

 

 

Iron Gall Ink was used to write the US Constitution. It also has a very cool oxidizing effect that the ink actually darkens the longer it sits on the page, although this can lead to the some types of paper breaking down after a couple of hundred years

[davidspitzer]

Will the final product (in theory at least) be safe for your fountain pens?

 

No it will tear up a fountain pen (iron oxides) but in a pump pen or dip pen there is no prettier ink for copperplate or spencerian, plus it is waterproof when dried

 

 

Iron Gall Ink was used to write the US Constitution. It also has a very cool oxidizing effect that the ink actually darkens the longer it sits on the page, although this can lead to the some types of paper breaking down after a couple of hundred years

 

 

here is iron gall ink written on goatskin parchment (not by me, I do not possess that much skill)

 

[dcwaites]

Following my attempts at Iron-Tea ink, I did a bit more research.

 

I noticed from the Wikipedia article that you should keep the Iron solution separate from the Gall solution and only mix enough for your needs when you need to use it.

 

Other articles say that Tannin, which you get from tea, is different from Tannic acid which you get from the galls. However, the results I got were pretty much the same, it does down almost clear and oxidises to a waterproof mark as it dries.

 

 

 

[davidspitzer]

Following my attempts at Iron-Tea ink, I did a bit more research.

 

I noticed from the Wikipedia article that you should keep the Iron solution separate from the Gall solution and only mix enough for your needs when you need to use it.

 

Other articles say that Tannin, which you get from tea, is different from Tannic acid which you get from the galls. However, the results I got were pretty much the same, it does down almost clear and oxidises to a waterproof mark as it dries.

 

 

thats what the logwood is for it dyes the ink so it goes on with a base black color before it oxidizes

[psfred]

I made some walnut/iron ink this fall, need to try it out again now that it's been sitting a couple months to "ripen".

 

Rather too thick for a fountain pen, even if I was interested it putting it in one, which I am not.

 

I use a flexy dip pen, have to dip every line but it's fun.

 

Peter

[escribo]

Just an off-topic aside (sorry, I must):

Modern English in the Anglo-Saxon style & character set --

I love it! Wish I could write it that well... :embarrassed_smile:

EDIT: Never saw "w" acyually written as a "double-u" though it must have been

at some point, as that is what it is called. /EDIT

 

(On topic) Good luck with your ink; I'll be eagerly watching for the results.

 

-jon

Edited January 8, 2009 by escribo

[Paddler]

Following my attempts at Iron-Tea ink, I did a bit more research.

 

I noticed from the Wikipedia article that you should keep the Iron solution separate from the Gall solution and only mix enough for your needs when you need to use it.

 

Other articles say that Tannin, which you get from tea, is different from Tannic acid which you get from the galls. However, the results I got were pretty much the same, it does down almost clear and oxidises to a waterproof mark as it dries.

 

Tannins comprise a really large class of chemical compounds. Gallic acid is only one of them. It is probably not the only one that will make black ink.

 

Paddler

 

[davidspitzer]

Following my attempts at Iron-Tea ink, I did a bit more research.

 

I noticed from the Wikipedia article that you should keep the Iron solution separate from the Gall solution and only mix enough for your needs when you need to use it.

 

Other articles say that Tannin, which you get from tea, is different from Tannic acid which you get from the galls. However, the results I got were pretty much the same, it does down almost clear and oxidises to a waterproof mark as it dries.

 

Tannins comprise a really large class of chemical compounds. Gallic acid is only one of them. It is probably not the only one that will make black ink.

 

Paddler

 

 

The Conservator at the library of congress said in their tests the fermented galls made some of the most richly colored black ink, although she said you could probably achieve the same results with buying straight gallic acid. The trick would be knowing the correct dilution. The old recipes seem to create just the right strength for optimum color without excessive alkalinity (probably from century's of trial and error)

 

plus I want to make a completely authentic reproduction of the ink using natural substances - if it turns out well I might even think about producing more batches and market it to fellow purists out there...

 

[Paddler]

The Conservator at the library of congress said in their tests the fermented galls made some of the most richly colored black ink, although she said you could probably achieve the same results with buying straight gallic acid. The trick would be knowing the correct dilution. The old recipes seem to create just the right strength for optimum color without excessive alkalinity (probably from century's of trial and error)

 

plus I want to make a completely authentic reproduction of the ink using natural substances - if it turns out well I might even think about producing more batches and market it to fellow purists out there...

 

The correct dilution is the problem, it seems to me. How can you tell how much gallic acid is in the galls you use in the process? Can you find out how concentrated your ingredients are without expensive equipment?

 

I look forward to reading about your experiments.

 

Paddler

[davidspitzer]

The Conservator at the library of congress said in their tests the fermented galls made some of the most richly colored black ink, although she said you could probably achieve the same results with buying straight gallic acid. The trick would be knowing the correct dilution. The old recipes seem to create just the right strength for optimum color without excessive alkalinity (probably from century's of trial and error)

 

plus I want to make a completely authentic reproduction of the ink using natural substances - if it turns out well I might even think about producing more batches and market it to fellow purists out there...

 

The correct dilution is the problem, it seems to me. How can you tell how much gallic acid is in the galls you use in the process? Can you find out how concentrated your ingredients are without expensive equipment?

 

I look forward to reading about your experiments.

 

Paddler

 

The old formula clearly states the amount of water and galls in certain parts by weight ie like 100 parts water to 30 parts gall nuts - if you use metric - ml and grams are interchangable for water ie 100 ml of water is 100 gr so you measure out 30 mg of gall nut and pour in 100 ml of water and that seems to create the right concentration (there will be some evaporation and absorbtion so you simply pour off the standing water after the fermentation process and add water back to equal back the 100 ml of water

 

some of the numbers might not be exactly precise as i am raattling them off by memory but that is the general idea

[demeter]

 

 

The old formula clearly states the amount of water and galls in certain parts by weight ie like 100 parts water to 30 parts gall nuts - if you use metric - ml and grams are interchangable for water ie 100 ml of water is 100 gr so you measure out 30 mg of gall nut and pour in 100 ml of water and that seems to create the right concentration (there will be some evaporation and absorbtion so you simply pour off the standing water after the fermentation process and add water back to equal back the 100 ml of water

 

some of the numbers might not be exactly precise as i am raattling them off by memory but that is the general idea

 

 

You are saying 100mL of water equals 100gr [sic, I assume: gm], so your 100 parts water to 30 parts gall nut should be "100gm water to 30gm gall nut" [not 30mg gall nut] to ring true, no?

 

I'm not being a snot; just questioning the consistency.

 

Andrew

[davidspitzer]

 

 

right grams all the way and yes the density of water is 1 gram per 1 Milliliter so 100 ml of water = 100g

 

It's ok i'll snot back the Real abbreviation for grams is g not gm, although I got all brain twisted any way and wrote mg which is milligrams

 

[davidspitzer]

Here is my first batch - made with Ferrous II Sulphite, Boiled Gall Nuts and Gum Arabic - I will post better pictures later and the next batch will include logwood dye also and fermented galls

 

[ScottDA]

If you were to leave out the logwood dye, would the ink go on clear(ish) and then darken to a black?

 

 

 

That would be interesting.

 

 

-DAS

[davidspitzer]

If you were to leave out the logwood dye, would the ink go on clear(ish) and then darken to a black?

 

 

 

 

That would be interesting.

 

 

-DAS

 

that ink in the photo is without logwood - if you put it on real thin it starts out kinds of grey but it turns black real fast

 

Edited January 20, 2009 by davidspitzer

[Wildoaklane]

I use logwood to dye yarn. When using woods to dye, they are often steeped in alcohol to extract the dye. Is this what you did with the logwood or did you just soak it in water? I have some other things such as madder root, alkanet root, annatto seed and cochineal to use for dye. Wonder how they would work as ink?

 

I found a recipe from circa 1800's which calls for blue galls (oak galls), iron sulphate, gum arabic, stale beer and sugar. I wonder how much beer one has to drink to make the recipe work? This recipe, too, takes two weeks to make.

[davidspitzer]

I use logwood to dye yarn. When using woods to dye, they are often steeped in alcohol to extract the dye. Is this what you did with the logwood or did you just soak it in water? I have some other things such as madder root, alkanet root, annatto seed and cochineal to use for dye. Wonder how they would work as ink?

 

I found a recipe from circa 1800's which calls for blue galls (oak galls), iron sulphate, gum arabic, stale beer and sugar. I wonder how much beer one has to drink to make the recipe work? This recipe, too, takes two weeks to make.

 

 

I boil the logwood - and get a blood red dye - very pretty - as soon as the ferrous sulhpite touches it it turns pitch black

[Wildoaklane]

I'm trying to hunt down some ferrous (II) sulphate. Found some in "heptahydrate" form. Would this work?

 

Just as an aside, when dyeing fiber, iron is added to "sadden" or darken the color. When I've used logwood, I've gotten a very dark blue/black color after using iron. It takes very little iron, usually I just add the dyestuff to an iron pot....thus, my question about the heptahydrate form. Chemistry class was a very long time ago!