Early Wahl Sterling Pen

[LBpens]

The other day there was a discussion of Wahl metal pens and I mentioned one I had. I dug it up and am surprised to see it has no Wahl markings except on the nib. It is hand carved and has an obvious Wahl roller clip. It's only 4 3/8 closed. The nib is Wahl Tempoint Pen #2. I haven't looked at all my Wahl metal pens to see if I have one like it and I'm trying to recall if any others lack Wahl imprint. Anyone have a catalog this early? Maybe this is from shortly after takeover from Boston. I take pen pics outside in natural light and it is raining today but I'll take a pic tomorrow.

[Roger W.]

Lynn;

 

All the tempoint metals lack markings that is why you can ONLY tell a metal Boston from a metal Tempoint by the nib. Many of the metal tempoints would have been Boston stock anyway and then there's the fact that Wahl didn't change anything for years after buying Boston. At least with the hard rubber pens the imprints are different.

 

Roger W.

[LBpens]

Lynn;

 

All the tempoint metals lack markings that is why you can ONLY tell a metal Boston from a metal Tempoint by the nib. Many of the metal tempoints would have been Boston stock anyway and then there's the fact that Wahl didn't change anything for years after buying Boston. At least with the hard rubber pens the imprints are different.

 

Roger W.

 

I don't think it's that simple. First, the nibs can be moved around. Plus I have very early pens with Tempoint nibs and Wahl markings. I guess logically Wahl would have begun using Boston stock with no changes, then perhaps using Tempoint nibs when Boston nibs ran out, then adding Wahl imprints, and finally using their own designs.

 

[Roger W.]

Lynn;

 

The 1921 Wahl catalogue doesn't show markings either and this is still a tempoint catalogue that is essentially Boston material five years later - early Wahl was far from innovative but, when you start with a great product, Boston, how much change do you need. This is someting I noticed years ago and talked with Boston/Wahl collector Cliff Harrington about. There are a lot of unmarked Wahl Tempoints and ya, the nibs can be moved around so it is a huge identification problem. That is why a Boston with a broken nib is very likely to become a Wahl tempoint or a Wahl because it is "close enough" for most people trying to sell a pen and it could go the other way. Obviously the wahl nib in a metal with just patent dates is out of place but, the tempoint nib is indistinguishable as there are lever and eyedropper pens in the '21 catalogue. The '21 catalogue shows fully marked pencils and unmarked pens, could be an oversight but I don't think so. I tend to think if you have a tempoint in a marked metal pen it could be late or a switch.

 

Roger W.

[LBpens]

Roger, I'm not disagreeing with you and I said in my original post that I thought it was from shortly after takeover from Boston. All I'm saying now is I have another pen like this but with Wahl markings. Maybe "that" pen is the anomaly. I really don't know and can't remember the last time I poured over metal pens looking for such details. I am, however, hesitant to conclude too much from catalogs. I gotta think that as soon as Wahl started making pens instead of using old stock, which had to be less than five years, they would have used a Wahl imprint. But I guess we'll never know. Maybe they used old Boston artwork for the catalog and that's why they don't have imprints. Maybe this pen's clip was replaced. Lots of maybes. I just doubt that Wahl shipped out many pens with Wahl nibs but without Wahl imprints so I'm not sure what you mean by all tempoint metal lacks markings. Anyway - ask Cliff Harrington who sold him many of his very first Wahls and tell him I said he should join the conversations we have here

[Roger W.]

Lynn;

 

When Wahl started they did what Boston did. Rubber was marked Wahl Tempoint and metal as not marked. Even Wahl figured out the silly in this and started marking things Wahl in late 1921 as everything was Tempoint before this. Wahl even then did not change models for years - I have original Boston patterns done in tempoints and still done in Wahls all three with their respective marks or just nibs in the case of the first two metals with Wahl markings I think post 1921 (late 1921 ad says only Wahl and not Wahl tempoint though the pen does not show that detail as a 1923 ad does). When it came to Wahls first years they ran as Tempoints and these aren't marked in metal. Boston designs really didn't need to be changed but when Wahl did take to design they made some great metal turnings. Early Tempoints will tell you on the box that they were formally known as Boston Safety.

 

Roger W.

[david i]

The other day there was a discussion of Wahl metal pens and I mentioned one I had. I dug it up and am surprised to see it has no Wahl markings except on the nib. It is hand carved and has an obvious Wahl roller clip. It's only 4 3/8 closed. The nib is Wahl Tempoint Pen #2. I haven't looked at all my Wahl metal pens to see if I have one like it and I'm trying to recall if any others lack Wahl imprint. Anyone have a catalog this early? Maybe this is from shortly after takeover from Boston. I take pen pics outside in natural light and it is raining today but I'll take a pic tomorrow.

 

 

Think i have one like that. Will need to do pics. Has the 1904 pat mark iirc. Maybe a leftover/final Boston, or Boston with slightly later wahl nib.

 

regards

 

d

[LBpens]

The other day there was a discussion of Wahl metal pens and I mentioned one I had. I dug it up and am surprised to see it has no Wahl markings except on the nib. It is hand carved and has an obvious Wahl roller clip. It's only 4 3/8 closed. The nib is Wahl Tempoint Pen #2. I haven't looked at all my Wahl metal pens to see if I have one like it and I'm trying to recall if any others lack Wahl imprint. Anyone have a catalog this early? Maybe this is from shortly after takeover from Boston. I take pen pics outside in natural light and it is raining today but I'll take a pic tomorrow.

 

 

Think i have one like that. Will need to do pics. Has the 1904 pat mark iirc. Maybe a leftover/final Boston, or Boston with slightly later wahl nib.

 

regards

 

d

 

Does yours have a roller clip like Bostons? Mine does, but as I said I have the same pen with the same clip but with Wahl markings. No doubt those without Wahl markings are older than those with, but dates are anyone's guess and Roger's conjecture is as good as anyone's. Certainly there were large degrees of overlap in all this and I still caution against concluding too much from catalogs and ads. Anyway, I started this because I said this was a duplicate but now I'm not so sure I have another like it. Can't get in the bank on Sun. PS _ yes mine has the 04 pat.

 

[Wahlnut]

The "metal wahls" I have from the earliest period do not have any trademark on the cap or barrel. They do say 14k 1/8 and pat July 5 1904 on the cap and pat Jan 25 04 on the barrel. The pen I am referring to is pre-All-Metal Pen. These are metal mounted on black hard rubber bodied pens (as all the metal Wahls were prior to the introduction of the All Metal Pen in 1921). They carry either Tempoint of Wahl Pen nibs. Nibs being what they are, get replaced often and easily, so what nib is in what pen is not conclusive of anything. The mounted or overlay pens if you prefer, while the mode of manufacture before 1921 at Wahl (and Boston) did carry forward beyond 1921 in the solid gold and silver models through at least 19223-3, after which they took on the All-Metal Configuration. All the pens metal mounted and All-Metal illustrated in the in the 1921 Wahl catalog show no trademarking on the pen. However these catalogs were "illustrated" and not photographed, but I find it curious that given the level of detail in the illustrations, none of the pens show any trademarking. The 1925 catalog, (also illustrated and not photographed) the pens are all shown with the trademark plainly visible as "Wahl Pen".

 

As for the roller clip, at least in the 1921 catalog it was present as the clip shown on the metal overlay or mounted pens. All the All-Metal Pens have the "spoon" clip. In the wild the earlier pens all had a tapered cap lip, the later pens (All-Metal) had straight cap lips. By 1925 all the pens were All-Metal and the roller clip was not offered (in the catalog).

 

So, from what I have here in print on in the pen cases, the earliest metal pens from Wahl (Called Tempoint in the catalogs of course) had no trademark, and a roller clip.

 

Nothing conclusive here, but maybe some of these items may mesh with what others see to try to establish something more conclusive?

Syd

Edited January 5, 2009 by Wahlnut

[Roger W.]

Syd;

 

Just to emphasize a point about the '21 catalogue the pens don't show trademarking though the pencils do. As I've said I don't think this is an accident as the metal tempoints I have are just marked with the patent date and gold fill content. I have about a dozen tempoint metal pens marked in such manner. Now I do have a few Wahl nibbed pens without trademarking as well. Perhaps there was a short period where they switched to wahl nibs before they started maring the cases wahl.

 

Therefore, it is still my conclusion that metal pens were marked in the same manner that Boston did them and that was no trademarking on the cases and this practice went on for years as all tempoints illustrate this. It is tricky as everything has to be based on the nib being in the right pen but, as I have a good number of these I believe the pens back up my conclusions. I have some 17 metal Bostons. I think in any sample you could question one or two pens if they are right or not but I have enough examples to support what Boston and wahl using "tempoint" were producing in this period.

 

Pictures later I hope.

 

Roger W.

[LBpens]

Simply because I have two identical pens, one with Wahl marking and one without, I don't think it is that simple. Maybe the apparent protocols weren't the same with hand-carved pens? But hey, God knows I'm not one who likes to argue about pens! Off for several days with no internet - please have all the mysteries solved by the time I get back!

Edited January 5, 2009 by LBpens