Elephant Ivory?

[dcande01]

There is no such thing as "legal" ivory.

 

Poachers have been killing elephants because of the demand in the U.S, China and Japan.

 

Now, South Africa, satisfied that there is a demand as doctored a elephant surplus study in order to be killing it's elephant population, once again.

 

 

A couple of years ago a small group of scientists started to sample ivory from every known elephant population in order to establish a dna database and find out where ivory sold around the world came from. It takes time and they have yet to publish their findings.

 

Reputable international and regional animal welfare organizations and elephant researchers urged every country with elephant populations to ban ivory sales until the study was concluded, published and ranger monitoring of elephant populations and strong enforcement against poachers was put in place.

 

 

However, South Africa decided not to wait for the conclusion of the dna study and decided to make public its stupid and stubborn decision to resume elephant killing and sell of his ivory stockpile.

Since then, every single protected elephant population has been targeted for poaching.

 

 

Like us, elephants are mammals with strong family relationships, mirror self recognition, extensive communication and social ties with family, extended family and other elephant groups, their infants enjoy a long childhood and care from all members of the family.

 

 

Rescued baby elephants in an orphanage in the David Sheldrick Orphanage in Kenya have shown the same level of care toward infants younger than themselves.

http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/html...nt_emotion.html

 

If you want more information about elephants visit those sites:

 

 

 

Below is the website of The Amboseli Trust for Elephants

(site of the researchers have studied the elephant population of Amboseli National Park in Kenya since 1972)

http://www.elephanttrust.org/node/268

 

This is the website set up by one of the Amboseli researcher, she and her husband now works on advocating for elephant welfare worldwide. She has started a study of an elephant population in Sri Lanka and is working with collegues in India.

http://www.elephantvoices.org/index.php?topic=why_comm

 

Here is a bibliographic reference

http://www.elephantvoices.org/why_comm/ref.html

 

 

I have to add that I have the greatest of respect for pen turners.

They transform pieces of celluloid, sustainable wood, steel or other material into a beautiful writing work of art.

 

 

I was reading my way to the bottom so that I could put in my own two cents over the cruelty involved. Thank you for beating me to it. Legal or not, elephant ivory is a disgusting "product."

[dcande01]

When people stop buying all items made from ivory, there will cease to be a market for ivory. I will not buy anything made of ivory, young or old, antique, legal, certified havested from natural death animals.... nothing. Won't you please join me, and help stop the market for ivory?

 

There are some animals on this planet that are at least our equals. Not all, I'm not saying give up eating animals or making whistles out of chicken bones, but some animals are as entitled to our position on the food chain as we humans are. Whales, elephants, manatee, cuttlefish, gorillas, to name a few. We need to recognize this and stop marketing our dead partners.

 

Same comment to you, Clydesdave. Thanks for extending the circle of respect for life to include others beside the elephant.

[hottttdog]

I just stumbled onto this very interesting, and relevant discussion forum. I am in a quandry and would like some feedback. I enjoy pens, and have a number in my collection. I also have in my possession a section of a very old elephant ivory pool cue (3 feet long and tapers from 5/8" to 3/8". It was given to me as a boy in the 1950's by a relative that bought into the US from Europe legally as an antique (i.e., confirmed more than 100 years old at the time of import). Consequently, it is now at least 150 years old. Here is the problem: I strongly oppose any trade in ivory. However, while I would never consider selling it, it is the perfect size and shape for making pens. The material is beautiful. What do people think about my making part of it into a pen for my own use? My concern is that someone admiring it could be tempted to try to acquire their own (i.e., seek out illegal ivory). Again, I would personally oppose selling even an antique ivory pen. But what to do if you happen to have inherited an antique ivory pen, or material suitable to make a pen? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Beechwood]

This is another of those personal choice questions that we all have to make in life.

 

Is it acceptable to you to wear fur coats, use elephant or rhino ivory, buy clothes that have been made by child slave labour, use cosmetics that have been tested on animals, this list is endless - all down to personal choices and whatever you hold up as being important.

 

Your pen, your concience.

[richardandtracy]

hottttdog,

 

To be honest, I'd prefer it kept as the cue. It has a historical worth as it is, which the pens would loose.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Vintagepens]

hottttdog,

 

To be honest, I'd prefer it kept as the cue. It has a historical worth as it is, which the pens would loose.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

I'd agree with this.

The other factor is the total unsuitability of ivory for pen manufacture. It's been noted before in this thread, but I will emphasize it again: the stuff WILL crack and split -- it's not a matter of if, and the when won't take long. I've seen a fair number of vintage ivory fountain pens, all of which were cracked, and several custom-made modern pens in ivory -- all of which developed cracks before they were ten years old.

 

As far as ivory substitutes go, the best I've seen that's currently available is the celluloid stock we are selling at the American Art Plastics site. We have some really good imitation tortoiseshell, too, but it's the ivory that's outstanding -- grained just like the real thing.

[rsilver000]

Has anyone used bone as an ivory alternative? When we were in Thailand, many of the carvings were done in "bone" not quite what sure that really meant or what material was actually used. It had an interesting grain pattern and nice feel to it. The outer layer of bone is quite dense and as long as you avoid the inner spongy lattice layer, it may turn well on a lathe.

Rob

[Ruaidhri]

Bone can be turned very well, but is a bit messy - and smells awful

 

Best boil for a few hours and turn while still damp.

Bill Jones* has some excellent advice in his writings and gave me permission some time back to pop up extracts here (I'll dig some out when I have a few mins).

 

Cheers,

Ruaidhrí

 

"Notes from the Turning Shop", "Further Notes from the Turning Shop" and various SOT Bulletins.

 

Edit -

Bill recommends:

leg bones (cow).

Saw off knuckles (too porous).

Cut as required (oil saw blade frequently).

Boil for an hour or so and keep in water until immediately before use - his words:

"My way was to put a dozen or so on the bench and covers them with a damp cloth. Thus prepared, bone is very pleasurable to turn with gouge and square tool."

He recommends speeds varying between 1800 and 2800 depending on diameter etc.

 

Takes a fine polish (personally I use compo on a buff) and will accept a thread well too

Edited December 15, 2009 by Ruaidhri

[Ruaidhri]

Just crossed my mind - Tagua Nut is a material much overlooked nowadays. cheap enough, takes a superb finish.

Used to be known as "vegetable ivory". Easily available.

 

I've used this for years - usually for small rings separating (eg) an ebony finial from a box top or similar.

Usually a small void in somewhere in the nut, but a lovely material for small bits & bobs.

 

 

Cheers

R

[professionaldilettante]

Bone can be turned very well, but is a bit messy - and smells awful

 

Best boil for a few hours and turn while still damp.

Bill Jones* has some excellent advice in his writings and gave me permission some time back to pop up extracts here (I'll dig some out when I have a few mins).

 

Cheers,

Ruaidhrí

 

"Notes from the Turning Shop", "Further Notes from the Turning Shop" and various SOT Bulletins.

 

Edit -

Bill recommends:

leg bones (cow).

Saw off knuckles (too porous).

Cut as required (oil saw blade frequently).

Boil for an hour or so and keep in water until immediately before use - his words:

"My way was to put a dozen or so on the bench and covers them with a damp cloth. Thus prepared, bone is very pleasurable to turn with gouge and square tool."

He recommends speeds varying between 1800 and 2800 depending on diameter etc.

 

Takes a fine polish (personally I use compo on a buff) and will accept a thread well too

I wouldn't recommend boiling the bone, especially if you're working with it, as in the process, you are destroying the proteins in the bone that gives it its tensile strength, leaving you with a product that is more brittle than "raw" bone.

[Ruaidhri]

I wouldn't recommend boiling the bone, especially if you're working with it, as in the process, you are destroying the proteins in the bone that gives it its tensile strength, leaving you with a product that is more brittle than "raw" bone.

 

I'm not quite sure why BJ recommends the practice above, but he is the last of five generations of turners, has been turning since he was a child, has published numerous writings on the subject, and won most of what could be won for his work - see pics below (bad pics - I just grabbed a camera and whacked away LOL.

 

I merely try to read and learn from such people.

 

Please don't take this post the wrong way - it is NOT meant to be a 'put down' in any way. Just passing along the reasons I use my own methods

 

Fond regards,

Ruaidhrí

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/ruaidhri/Two_More.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/ruaidhri/Pulpit.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/ruaidhri/Onion_Set.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/ruaidhri/Copenhagen.jpg

And finally - this is the king from Bill's "Copenhagen Set", for which the Worshipful Company of Turners and the Society of Ornamental Turners awarded him the Lady Gertrude Crawford Medal - and it doesn't get much better than that

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/ruaidhri/King.jpg

[richardandtracy]

You know, Ruaidhrí, that's just depressing. It's so fantastic, it's depressing.

 

Do you have any idea how long it takes him to do each piece? By the look of them they must be 2 or 3 lifetimes per pawn. Where does he get the time?

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[pen2paper]

Tagua nut was used extensively in the late 19thC for all sorts of utilitarian items...

I have Many pieces of old Tagua Nut including a manufacturers sample box, which shows the process, from the full nut, to slices, to carves to finished pieces..

they hold up remarkably well.. much better, in fact than the old heat process horn, which generally was invaded by mites-multiple chew holes, beyond the single pick-mark hole where the item was removed from the mold.

 

Improper storage, heat, multiple rough washings can dry out the but and cause Tagua nut to crack... but it is a pretty tough nut! The nut size can range, but golf ball size is common.

 

Ditto on preserving the cue stick. It's value is in its current state.. Example. Take an 18thC painted on ivory garment button, with Matthew Bolton Steels, add a pearl disc, and a paste.. easily 2K+ US-cut the shank off and make it into a piece of jewelry.. you have Completely Devalued the piece. There are Some things its ok to use to craft into altered art.. antiques in precious materials Is NOT one of these-pardon poor grammar-dashing to work.

Edited December 15, 2009 by pen2paper

[Ruaidhri]

You know, Ruaidhrí, that's just depressing. It's so fantastic, it's depressing.

 

Do you have any idea how long it takes him to do each piece? By the look of them they must be 2 or 3 lifetimes per pawn. Where does he get the time?

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

Richard,

 

The really appalling thing about Bill is that the Copenhagen set took him 30 days (a total of 144 hours) - a total of 172 separate screwed pieces, from raw material to winning the medal !!

 

When you hear someone casually talking about "at the rate of around 10 gross a week" you know you are talking to a pro :D

 

Cheers,

R