Dip pen / nib problem

[musok]

Good evening!

I've already bought my dip pen (yeeaah). bought a flex and an italic nib.

The problem i have is with the flex nib. well the problem is... it isnt smooth!!! like it scratches the paper. is it the paper? is it the low quality of the nib? should the nib be "bolder"? Or is it because i'm left-handed? I'm asking you since it is the first time i'm using a dip pen.

[jbb]

Some dip nibs give you the feeling that they are cutting into the top layer of your paper -- and that is not necessarily a bad thing -- I rather like it. I also prefer "toothy" paper (ones with 25-100% cotton) for my dip pens. The right paper will show off the line variation and shading best.

 

Which nibs did you get?

[BillTheEditor]

Good evening!

I've already bought my dip pen (yeeaah). bought a flex and an italic nib.

The problem i have is with the flex nib. well the problem is... it isnt smooth!!! like it scratches the paper. is it the paper? is it the low quality of the nib? should the nib be "bolder"? Or is it because i'm left-handed? I'm asking you since it is the first time i'm using a dip pen.

In general, dip pens tend to be scratchy. It may also be part of your learning curve with dip pens.

[musok]

well the problem is that i can't make a straight curve because of that "scratchy"! it's kind of (bleep) me off... haam the brand name starts with a L and the nib is kind of... dark blue... i don't know the brand right now. maybe if you know brand names started by a L i may tell you. I bought it on the store in my university.

[BillTheEditor]

well the problem is that i can't make a straight curve because of that "scratchy"! it's kind of (bleep) me off... haam the brand name starts with a L and the nib is kind of... dark blue... i don't know the brand right now. maybe if you know brand names started by a L i may tell you. I bought it on the store in my university.

Sounds like you're pressing too hard. With a dip pen, any pressure you exert on the nib needs to be on the downstroke. On upstrokes, lighten up!

 

Mainly it's a matter of patience. If you find yourself getting annoyed to the point of distraction, wipe the nib, close the ink bottle, and go do something else for a while.

[jbb]

I concur with BillTheEditor, you have to lighten up on the upstroke considerably with some nibs.

 

 

[viix]

I concur with BillTheEditor, you have to lighten up on the upstroke considerably with some nibs.

 

The key to dip pen writing with a flex nib is PATIENCE.. there are alot of you tube videos, especially useful are those you can watch from

IAMPETH's site It teaches all the fundamental strokes that might solve you writing problem.

 

Also, as dip pen are very very fine, they tend to feel scratch but should write smooth when inked.. (not smoother than FP of course)

Paper is also important. A good cotton paper or smooth paper should do you some good.. Avoid cartridge paper or paper with similar roughness as cartridge as they tend to get caught in the nib.

 

[musok]

it scratchs on the upstroke. of course i only press on downstroke but i think that even with ink it doesnt smooth... it's like if the nib got caught on paper...

[caliken]

it scratchs on the upstroke. of course i only press on downstroke but i think that even with ink it doesnt smooth... it's like if the nib got caught on paper...

Often the answer to excessive scratchiness, is to use a much lower angle of nib to paper with as light a touch as possible.

Also, point the nib at the direction of the stroke so that the tines open evenly.

 

caliken

 

[dcwaites]

It really does depend on the brand, model and price point that the pen nib was built to.

 

Cheap office/school pens can be very scratchy when first used. I used them for a couple of years in primary school and remember that for the first couple of days of writing they were very rough.

 

If you are very, very gentle, you can just touch the point up with a fine, hard arkansas stone to make it a bit smoother. Be very careful, though, as the metal is relatively soft and the point is very small. You can very easily turn your fine point pen into a narrow stub italic...

 

Finding a good paper is important. Modern paper is not made to cope with dip nib pens any more. You need a relatively, but not very, smooth, hard, dense paper. You need a little roughness otherwise the pen won't wet the paper. I find that Stora Enso 4CC paper is too hard and smooth to work well, but other quality papers work well.

 

You may need to experiment with ink a little. Most modern inks are too saturated. I find that I get a good, vintage-style ink by diluting Parker Quink Blue with 25% or 50% water.

 

You may want to look for other pen nib types to start with. Brandauer Circular pointed pens are very nice to use, as are the J-Pens, because the point is rounded, rather than sharp.

 

 

[musok]

i'll check it out. there are two other things i forgot to say. I'm using chinese ink (still have to buy ink, trying to find the best place to do it) and when i press on the flex nib it will make me 2 lines instead of 1 big stroke. is the scratch problem because of the ink? where can i buy ink around web and which should i use (not too expensive!) ? oh... and maybe a new nib, which should i buy and where? and is there advantages on the oblique pen holder?

Edited September 24, 2008 by musok

[dcwaites]

I really don't think that Chinese ink, which I think is designed to be used with brushes, is what you need.

 

The ink you want will depend on your nibs (what brands and types did you get, pictures will help) and what sort of writing you want to do. Some dip pen users want to use them for calligraphy, others for drawing and still others, like myself, for normal handwriting.

In each case, the pen designs, the inks used and the speed with which the pen is used is quite different.

 

Calligraphy users have calligraphy inks, some black and others coloured, which are pigmented, and tend to have slow, deliberate movements. Just look at caliken's videos.

 

Drawers tend to use India ink, and the movements can vary from slow, wide, deliberate to fast, narrow lines.

 

Handwriters like me tend to use ordinary fountain pen ink, so Parker Quink, Sheaffer Skrip and such like all work. I need a pen nib and ink that can work well on reasonably good paper at the speed that I write, which is quite fast. If you don't want to write so fast, then any of the India inks will work, but some like Pelikan Fount India are better for handwriting than, say Windsor & Newton India ink.

 

 

[jimk]

The problem i have is with the flex nib. well the problem is... it isnt smooth!!! like it scratches the paper. is it the paper?

 

I used italic nibs for quite a while before I tried a flex nib. A whole different world! I put the nib right through the paper several times, when I needed to push. A very light touch of course is essential. But I found that smooth paper was also required. I found some Clairefontaine paper that worked delightfully.

 

Just make doodles for a while, like a long row of eeeeeee in Palmer style, My bible has been Tamblyn's Home Instructor or whatever the title is. You have to get a feel for the way the nib works before you can really write anything! It does get to be fun, once you get a feel for it.

 

What I've noticed is that with italic nibs, I really need a slanted writing surface so the pen can be more horizontal, allowing the ink to flow slowly. With a fine flex nib, the paper can be horizontal. The nib itself restricts the flow. But maybe that's because I use reservoirs on my italic nibs but not on my flex nibs!

 

[wykpenguin]

i'll check it out. there are two other things i forgot to say. I'm using chinese ink (still have to buy ink, trying to find the best place to do it) and when i press on the flex nib it will make me 2 lines instead of 1 big stroke. is the scratch problem because of the ink? where can i buy ink around web and which should i use (not too expensive!) ? oh... and maybe a new nib, which should i buy and where? and is there advantages on the oblique pen holder?

 

Chinese ink (from ink sticks or squeeze bottles) is definitely to thick to be used. Being a pigment ink (almost all carbon), it will tend to clog if left to dry. Also, it does not have much surface tension (I have never seen bubbles form when I grind out ink from an ink stick) which is why you get two lines with flex.

 

So far, I have had success with both Noodler's inks and Parker inks in flexy dip nibs. I have not tried other brands since a bottle of ink seems to last forever for me. Be sure to wash the nib clean to get rid off all the oil that was used to form the nib in a press before inking it. If the nib is not too precious, and you are as inpatient as I am, you could just burn it on both sides with a lighter for about 3 seconds. A 700 degC butane flame should not change the temper of modern (steel) nibs significantly and temper isn't really a problem for non-flex nibs such as italics.

 

Crisps italic nibs are very particular to the angle at which you hold them. They will scratch unless both the tines are touching the paper. This may or may not be easy to do depending on your writing style, but then this is why they made oblique italic nibs.

 

An oblique pen holder will allow a right-handed writer to line up the tines with the down stroke of cursive letters. It also lowers the angle of attack which may give a smoother writing experience. Being a lefty, I don't find them particularly useful.

Edited September 24, 2008 by wykpenguin

[musok]

yeah i've found later that there isnt an oblique holder for lefties!!!! Descrimination!!!!! I hate you all! lol. yeah but i've found some stuff interesting about the oblique like... bending to get the nib more horizontal.

About nibs, i bought another flex nib to try, it's cheap so...

I'll post the photos of the nibs later.

About ink.. i want to keep the dip pen for italics/copperplate/flourishing. so...

[caliken]

yeah i've found later that there isnt an oblique holder for lefties!!!! Descrimination!!!!!

A specifically-designed oblique penholder for lefties isn't necessary, as their natural pen position points to the slant line with a straight penholder.... so there is no discrimination - quite the reverse, as they have a natural advantage!

 

Having said that, many left-handed writers choose to use the oblique penholder - the same one as used by right-handed.

 

caliken

Edited September 25, 2008 by caliken

[musok]

i see.. hmm it's just... with the normal holder you can't "horizontalize" the nib!

[caliken]

i see.. hmm it's just... with the normal holder you can't "horizontalize" the nib!

I'm sorry musok, but I don't understand what you mean by "horizontalizing" the nib.

 

[musok]

like... haaam... http://www.iampeth.com/videos/VitoloPenAdj.wmv see this movie... i think you will understand what i mean by "horizontalizing".

 

other thing, i'm doing another topic where i'm interested on people that are interested on converting their handwrite, copperplate style, something, into a digital format... like a Font!

[caliken]

like... haaam... http://www.iampeth.com/videos/VitoloPenAdj.wmv see this movie... i think you will understand what i mean by "horizontalizing".

I see what you mean.....I would describe that as lowering the nib-to-paper angle.

 

Why not try adjusting an oblique holder as in the video...it works just as well for lefthanded writers?

 

caliken

Edited September 25, 2008 by caliken