Acid-free ink

[gmkeyworth]

I've been asked to contribute a note written on acid-free paper with acid-free ink for a scrapbook. I've been told I can buy an acid-free ink pen at a hobby store, but I'd rather use a fountain pen. I don't suppose FP inks are acid-free, but I thought I'd ask. I have a few bottles of various colors of Private Reserve, a bottle of black Skrip and a bottle of LAMY black ink.

[Walc]

why does it have to be acid-free

[Ondina]

Most Noodler's inks have a neutral pH. Many others also, like Waterman Florida Blue, many Herbin's, etc. If the acid free ink means neutral pH for archival purposes, Noodler's eternals claim to be so.

On the other hand, and being acidic, today's iron gall inks will provide archival properties in the long run, specially on a good acid free parchment/100% cotton rag paper.

Which paper have you decided to use?

Edited September 14, 2008 by Ondina

[Peter from Sherwood Park]

Glenn Marcus' web site has a listing of pH levels of some common inks. The appropriate page is at http://www.marcuslink.com/pens/ink/ink-and-ph-levels.htm You probably want a pH of around 7 to be free of acid and alkaline effects.

 

That brings us to the larger question of why we want "acid-free" for archival purposes. The problem that was observed with older papers was due to the residual sulphur content left in paper that had undergone a sulphite wash in the pulping step. The fast and dirty way to test for sulphur content was to look at pH, because the sulphur would give an acidic pH and a direct determination of the sulphur content of the paper was expensive. So many archivists specify "acid-free" when they really mean "sulphur-free".

 

Peter

[penhound]

In scrapbooking circles the phrase ACID-FREE is mostly meant to deswaide people from using ball point ink and rollerball/gel pen inks. Those are the inks that are killers for scrapbooking.

 

There are a lot of fountain pen inks that are suitable for scapbooking. Any thing with a pH level around the 7 mark is just fine for your scrapping tasks. If you tell me inks you typically use, I will try to reference my charts and let you know what is okay.

[JakobS]

In addition to most noodler's inks having a neutral PH, all of Private Reserve and J Herbin inks also have a neutral PH so I would use them if you have to use acid free ink. That should give it a whole variety of colors to choose from!!

 

Greg Clark lists Waterman's florida blue with a PH of 3.6 definitely an acid, in fact a lot of the Waterman's ink are acidic.

Edited September 14, 2008 by JakobS

[dcwaites]

I would think that a permanent ink would be more important than 'acid-free'. I'm sure you could find some 'acid-free' inks that would fade in a few months, which would defeat the purpose.

 

Inks come in a range of acidities, from quite acid to quite alkaline. The degree of acidity can be important to maintaining the colour of the dyes.

An alkaline ink would be quite 'acid-free' but could still be corrosive on certain papers.

 

Diamine make some Registrar's ink that on archival paper should be as permanent as you can get.

And, as mentioned, there are the Noodler's Eternal and Bulletproof inks.

 

If you really want permanent, there are also India inks. These are used for labels by museums which are required to last for hundreds of years. There are at least two which are fountain-pen friendly, Pelikan's Fount India Tinte (not Tusche) and Sailor Kiwaguro Nano Carbon Ink.

 

For a quick and inexpensive solution, pop down to your arts & crafts store and get a nice dip pen and some pigmented calligraphy inks.

 

 

 

[Iridium]

Most Noodler's inks have a neutral pH.

 

Pretty close--use any Noodler's ink except for the Baystate series, which is somewhat alkaline (not acidic but still mildly corrosive).

 

Many others also, like Waterman Florida Blue, many Herbin's, etc.

 

Most fountain pen inks are mildly acidic, and Waterman Florida Blue is actually one of the more acidic of the common inks.

 

On the other hand, and being acidic, today's iron gall inks will provide archival properties in the long run, specially on a good acid free parchment/100% cotton rag paper.

 

I don't think it's any better in this regard than other historic inks, and it's probably worse than most, judging by the relative condition of documents written with iron gall vis-à-vis India ink, for example. It still beats common fountain pen inks, but I doubt that it's more indelible and archival than Noodler's bulletproof/eternal inks. Iron gall ink is probably better for writing on parchment, though.

[Ondina]

Most fountain pen inks are mildly acidic, and Waterman Florida Blue is actually one of the more acidic of the common inks

 

My bottle of Florida Blue right here right now, purchased in Europe Jan. 2008 is exactly pH 6.4. So.... I did not write that lightly. Or took a reference out of a single internet list. (And I did not mention all Waterman's, my Waterman Purple is clearly acidic).

Herbin's inks are well known since many centuries back to be formulated and manufactured pH neutral.

Pretty close--use any Noodler's ink except for the Baystate series, which is somewhat alkaline (not acidic but still mildly corrosive).

"pretty close"???Like, you mean that's why I used the "most" instead of "all"?

 

The mentioned Registrar's ink that Diamine makes is indeed iron gall ink. MB, Lamy, R&K and others make also modern formulations of them. And well, let's put it this way. Those inks have proven they last. To be fair I did mention -first of all- Noodler's bulletproofs. Inks that have been very recently on the market and sell on premises that will last. As I won't be here to sue them if not, and know iron gall inks are used and required indeed in many legal documents in quite a few European countries so that the said signatures, documents, etc, last, I stand up to my previous recommendation based on several centuries of proven experiences.

 

Both dcwaites and penhound remarks are very knowledgeable and interesting, Peter-from-Sherwood mentions also a key fact, that paperwise, sulfur-free is the key to long lasting documents. And I'm editing this to remark Indian inks should not be used with fountain pens, obviously, but as mentioned above some new formulations seem to be suitable. I've only seen -not tried- Pelikan's Fountain Ink.

 

As DcWaites mentiones, indian inks are widely used by museums, etc for archival purposes.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Ondina

[dcwaites]

This book, Forty Centuries of Ink, has a couple of interesting chapters (12 & 13) on iron gall ink (=Registrar's Ink). Especially interesting is the section in Chapter 12 where the author discusses how the balance of ingredients is important to the permanence of the ink. It is most likely that those documents damaged by iron gall ink had ink that was not made optimally.

 

Also have a good look at the Preface.

 

 

 

[Ondina]

This book, Forty Centuries of Ink, has a couple of interesting chapters (12 & 13) on iron gall ink (=Registrar's Ink). Especially interesting is the section in Chapter 12 where the author discusses how the balance of ingredients is important to the permanence of the ink. It is most likely that those documents damaged by iron gall ink had ink that was not made optimally.

 

Also have a good look at the Preface.

 

Thanks for the link. The changes that European countries have agreed on the subject do not concern the inks, but the creation of computerized forms and records. Signatures, though, still are made using iron gall inks. I've found this link concerning only the U.K., but is good for all the EU countries, which will more or less time to apply it, but will actually do so. Exception to the rule are church records, which will maintain bound records written with iron-gall inks. (And then taken to the Civil Registry to be digitalized).

http://www.peterborough.gov.uk/page-11059

There is a recent topic here that covers basically the same info.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...showtopic=58857

 

And yes, the general consensus is that today's iron gall inks formulations make them very reliable and will last as long as the paper ( being the legal requirement for archival properties to last at least 200 years). I'm personally more worried about the quality of the paper than of the ink...

Does anyone knows, besides Clairfontaine and Oxford brands, other that are pH neutral papers? MiquelRíus? Crown Mill?

 

Now, going back to the topic.... scrapbooking papers are maybe specially prone to be attacked by inks? Because they are not top quality or made of several other papers? I'm totally ignorant about this, but I'll like to find out.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Ondina

[Iridium]

Most fountain pen inks are mildly acidic, and Waterman Florida Blue is actually one of the more acidic of the common inks

 

My bottle of Florida Blue right here right now, purchased in Europe Jan. 2008 is exactly pH 6.4. So.... I did not write that lightly.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the formulation were changed from time to time, but all it takes is one example of the ink being measured as acidic and a lack of stated intent on the part of the manufacturer to dissuade me from recommending it. There are plenty of other inks to choose from.

 

Herbin's inks are well known since many centuries back to be formulated and manufactured pH neutral.

 

Yep, that's their intent and it's all I've ever heard or read about them, so any ink from J. Herbin should be fine. That said, I'm not sure about their other archival qualities.

 

Pretty close--use any Noodler's ink except for the Baystate series, which is somewhat alkaline (not acidic but still mildly corrosive).

"pretty close"???Like, you mean that's why I used the "most" instead of "all"?

 

Don't take anything I say personally--in cases like this, I'm rarely even aware of who I'm responding to. Not to be argumentative, but saying "most" is not quite enough information for the original poster. I was merely adding to the information you provided, not trying to prove anybody wrong. "Pretty close" also refers to the fact that even pH-neutral inks are not exactly pH 7.0 in every single case, but close enough for all practical purposes (many are closer to neutral than tap water).

 

The mentioned Registrar's ink that Diamine makes is indeed iron gall ink. MB, Lamy, R&K and others make also modern formulations of them. And well, let's put it this way. Those inks have proven they last.

 

That's undeniable, but it could also be put this way: iron gall ink still degrades substantially over time and nobody who intends to make an archival ink today (from a blank slate) would make an ink with such properties. Frankly, I'm not sure why people used it so much, centuries ago, since better and more permanent inks were always available (probably cost, as usual). Unfortunately, this is moot if you wanted to use a fountain pen today, though, since these other inks (pigmented with a good binder) would gum up the works, obviously.

 

To be fair I did mention -first of all- Noodler's bulletproofs. Inks that have been very recently on the market and sell on premises that will last. As I won't be here to sue them if not, and know iron gall inks are used and required indeed in many legal documents in quite a few European countries so that the said signatures, documents, etc, last, I stand up to my previous recommendation based on several centuries of proven experiences.

 

I'm not arguing on behalf of Noodler's, but putting iron gall in its place. There were better archival inks available long before iron gall, and the newest archival ("eternal") inks may also be better. Are the latter proven by time? Well, there's no denying that they're not proven at all--not one bit. But they're pH-neutral and actually designed to be permanent, which is more than I can say for iron gall (at least historically).

 

As DcWaites mentiones, indian inks are widely used by museums, etc for archival purposes.

 

This would be the best choice, but the original poster wanted to use a fountain pen. There's no harm in pointing this out, though, and maybe the OP should consider using a dip pen.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Iridium

[JakobS]

I think we are getting away from the OP post here. They have in their possession inks that fit the bill in what they desire in an acid free ink, gmkeyworth use your private reserve inks. If you are worried about permanence you may want to consider Noodler's realizing that Nathan has stated that his original black has been tested the most when it come to this feature, it will save you headaches over wondering which iron gall ink to use, or if you should really use a dip pen instead. Just use your private reserve inks and enjoy the art of scrapbooking!!