MB poll :)

[saturation]

For information purposes, a quick web search gave that  a Pelikan M1000 retails at $560, and MB 149 at $575. Typical green board prices for MB149 and M1000 is mid $250.

 

The #146 is not balanced, and back heavy with the cap on it

...

OTAH, my workhorse pen is a Pilot Vanishing Point

A single pen that is not balanced for one person may be balanced for thousands others. In fact there are many, who can not get used to Vanishing point's clip Much more concern is the tendancy for breaking. Micheal Wright's statement - about the glass filled epoxy which tends to give good finish but brittle and that 144 is the most prone for failure is the one opinion that is heard repeatedly from more "knowledgeable" people.

 

http://customer.clearsail.net/~forrest/

I know that web site as well as the infamous bicman of pentrace (a MB hating troll) . But I want to have data from "real" people and to include both positive and negative experiences, this is why I posted this poll. I do have my own theory for the image/value/perception of MBs. Lets see how it turns out.

Hi A:

 

I'm no MB hater. I think of it as just another pen, but I wouldn't shell out $300 for a #146, and if I did and did me wrong, I would start screaming too!

 

I'm surprised by, assuming its not MB bashing, of the folks who had to pay for their MB repair. So far, I've returned two Parkers to factory, and they only charged me shipping [$10 each way, includes insurance.]

 

Per Parker's website, warranty repairs are only done for defects in workmanship and materials. After some time materials do age and possibly fail, so I'm pleased they honor the lifetime warranty on such issues, the pens I sent in were 10 and 20 years old, at least [like 1.5x older.]

 

Anyway, $75 wasn't so bad. I agree balance is not such a big issue, although I am less fatigued by that style [ FWIW most retractable ball points are balanced since they have no heavy cap!] When I used the MB, I used it only for signing my name.

 

Most pen sites describe balance as roughly equal weight of each end with the pen cap at the bottom of the pen. Many ornate pens are not so balanced due to the weight of the cap [ if you put a fulcrum in the middle the pen doesn't drop to either end.] The #146 is bottom heavy even without the cap on.

 

As of this writing, I'm guessing my MB is the 1970s vintage. Still going strong except for the sweating, and the balance

Edited February 11, 2006 by saturation

[Gatorade]

I'm surprised by, assuming its not MB bashing, of the folks who had to pay for their MB repair. So far, I've returned two Parkers to factory, and they only charged me shipping [$10 each way, includes insurance.]

 

Per Parker's website, warranty repairs are only done for defects in workmanship and materials. After some time materials do age and possibly fail, so I'm pleased they honor the lifetime warranty on such issues, the pens I sent in were 10 and 20 years old, at least [like 1.5x older.]

Warranty is part of the product. You make a decision based off of all factors and decide. If a company goes above and beyond thier normal warranty to fix something, great. If they stick to the written policy then you can't compalin. I have seen post about people who drop their pens nib first onto tile where the nib is at a 90 degree angle and it was replaced by the company. Obviously not a covered injury but they took care of it and made someone really happy. Just don't be suprised when something is deemed out of warranty coverage and you are asked to pay.

 

Remember the larger the company the more impersonal the contact. The more impersonal the contact the less chance for someone to go outside of the written policy.

[Nikolaos]

I have two 146s, a 149, and a boheme and they are fantastic writers. I dropped a 144 RB from my shirt pocket on asphalt and a section of the barrel broke. But that was expected on such a drop on a rough surface. Pretty happy with my MBs so far.

[davyr]

have only one, a writers edition kafka, which is a doozy of a pen. worth the extra bucks. for those that think they're no better than cheaper pens, i've bought and handled my share of cheap pens, and they can't hold a candle with regards to fit and finish. on the other hand, some cheap pens may arguably write just as well, or even better, but many cheap pens don't.

[Glenn-SC]

I " don't own any because 85% of those that I have tried wrote TERRIBLY and were not worth buying, regardless of the price."

[saturation]

I'm surprised by, assuming its not MB bashing, of the folks who had to pay for their MB repair.  So far, I've returned two Parkers to factory, and they only charged me shipping [$10 each way, includes insurance.] 

 

Per Parker's website, warranty repairs are only done for defects in workmanship and materials. After some time materials do age and possibly fail, so I'm pleased they honor the lifetime warranty on such issues, the pens I sent in were 10 and 20 years old, at least [like 1.5x older.]

Warranty is part of the product. You make a decision based off of all factors and decide. If a company goes above and beyond thier normal warranty to fix something, great. If they stick to the written policy then you can't compalin. I have seen post about people who drop their pens nib first onto tile where the nib is at a 90 degree angle and it was replaced by the company. Obviously not a covered injury but they took care of it and made someone really happy. Just don't be suprised when something is deemed out of warranty coverage and you are asked to pay.

 

Remember the larger the company the more impersonal the contact. The more impersonal the contact the less chance for someone to go outside of the written policy.

Agree, Gatoraide. Another minus for MB, if you imply as a big company they may not listen to its customers above its contracted warranty.

 

But big companies are not necessarily unresponsive as they are big targets for litigation, and if they are a pain, why buy their product? In recent memory, the iPod lawsuits come to mind and now Apple is pretty responsive to user complaints.

[Blade Runner]

Mont Blancs are among my favorites. They've have all written perfectly out of the box and have been trouble free. My oldest 149 has been continuously inked for 11 years without a hiccup.

No drops.

 

Cheers,

Jeen

[John Cullen]

Just a general FYI. I ordered a parker 100, came with a nib that had slightly spread tines that did not write. Parker says nib must be replaced....for $80. This was a new pen. It was not dropped.

[Blade Runner]

I " don't own any because 85% of those that I have tried wrote TERRIBLY and were not worth buying, regardless of the price."

Glenn,

You said in a different thread that the MBs you tried were all pre-owned.

Previously owned pens may not be be entirely representative of how they ought to perform.

 

I've found sucess from buying new pens at Brick and Mortar stores where they allow you to dip the nib and write with it. That way you can tell if it's smooth at least. Some dealers at pen shows will also give you this opportunity. Another option is to buy from a well respected on line seller of used pens. There are several on Pentrace's green board.

 

Cheers,

Jeen

[ChristopherH]

Here's a hypothesis I haven't seen floated yet: maybe MBs aren't any more prone to breakage when dropped, they're simply more prone to being dropped.

 

Is that "precious resin" perhaps extra slippery? Or maybe the reflective black interferes with depth perception? Or maybe the torpedo shape makes it easy to fumble?

 

Okay, I'm stretching this a bit. At least I avoided the implication that MB owners are clumsy...

 

Disclaimer: Don't own an MB yet, but I'm planning to pick up a 146 someday; I like the styling, and the Pelikan alternatives don't float my boat.

[Gatorade]

I'm surprised by, assuming its not MB bashing, of the folks who had to pay for their MB repair.  So far, I've returned two Parkers to factory, and they only charged me shipping [$10 each way, includes insurance.] 

 

Per Parker's website, warranty repairs are only done for defects in workmanship and materials. After some time materials do age and possibly fail, so I'm pleased they honor the lifetime warranty on such issues, the pens I sent in were 10 and 20 years old, at least [like 1.5x older.]

Warranty is part of the product. You make a decision based off of all factors and decide. If a company goes above and beyond thier normal warranty to fix something, great. If they stick to the written policy then you can't compalin. I have seen post about people who drop their pens nib first onto tile where the nib is at a 90 degree angle and it was replaced by the company. Obviously not a covered injury but they took care of it and made someone really happy. Just don't be suprised when something is deemed out of warranty coverage and you are asked to pay.

 

Remember the larger the company the more impersonal the contact. The more impersonal the contact the less chance for someone to go outside of the written policy.

Agree, Gatoraide. Another minus for MB, if you imply as a big company they may not listen to its customers above its contracted warranty.

 

But big companies are not necessarily unresponsive as they are big targets for litigation, and if they are a pain, why buy their product? In recent memory, the iPod lawsuits come to mind and now Apple is pretty responsive to user complaints.

I have one of the new black Nanos and I scratched it up. Not so bad as I can't read it but it doesn't have that "Precious Resin" sheen to it. Oh wait wrong product. JK I knew when I put it in my pocket and used it that it would scratch. I really knew my 2 1/2 year olds could do some serious dammage to it. I have tried to keep it out of reach and I am looking for something to buff it closer to smooth and then I will get a case for it. I won't bring a class action law suit about because of it, and the only reason I mention that is I have heard about a number of them being filed over the scratches.

[antoniosz]

I have one of the new black Nanos and I scratched it up. Not so bad as I can't read it but it doesn't have that "Precious Resin" sheen to it. Oh wait wrong product. JK I knew when I put it in my pocket and used it that it would scratch. I really knew my 2 1/2 year olds could do some serious dammage to it. I have tried to keep it out of reach and I am looking for something to buff it closer to smooth and then I will get a case for it. I won't bring a class action law suit about because of it, and the only reason I mention that is I have heard about a number of them being filed over the scratches.

It is very interesting that you brought this up G. You should hear my daughter - how she feels about i-pod and Apple now that about 1.2 years after purchase and 0.2 years after warranty expired, her i-pod freezes up all the time with no reason. Yes, she has gone through the "support" web site. There are many more complains that the scratching problem, see for example http://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/apple_ipod.html

 

Back to pens - I never understood the lifetime warranty offered by some pen companies. To me this sounds like a reverberation from gimmicks of the distance past. Limited warranty makes fiscal sense. Or wait maybe they could sell extended warranty for 20% extra . Or maybe that 20% extra is already in the price

[Onion]

Warrenty makes a big difference to me... Take Zippo Lighters for example, they warrenty their lighters for lifetime of the lighter, anything goes wrong EVER with the working parts of the lighter, hinges, insides anything BUT scratches and finish, they will fix it... even if you are not the original owner.

I am a Zippo collector and I have sent back lighters at least 15 times to get them fixed. No questions and no fees, they pay to send it back at their expense and they send you free stuff in the return package. (and return the replaced parts in case they are collectable).

Now don't get me wrong I don't expect this kind of service from anyone else, but they have made their name by standing behind their product, a 15 to 45 dollar product.

Any company that states their warrenty should at the very least stand behind it. If they go above and beyond, they have me for life!

[Tricia]

I voted 'other':

 

I have two MBs, one a 144 in burgundy that did not have a resin issue, but the nib was an on-again-off-again writer, so it's at Mr. Binder's (I hope - I haven't heard from him... ).

 

I also have a Noblesse, navy/dark blue, that: 1) leaks (I think where the nib meets the section) and 2) has had a hole eaten through the top of the nib. (Most likely MB's own ink, since I used mostly MB carts in it until fairly recently, though probably some Waterman or Pelikan ink over the years as well. This happened years ago.). It still writes just fine, though.

 

Both of these pens were purchased new back in the mid-to-late 80s I'd guess. (Don't remember specifically.)

 

The 144 really is a beautiful pen and I'm hoping after its nib is tweaked, it'll be a beautiful writer as well.

 

I don't dislike MBs, but I'm not overly-enamored of them, either. One thing I can tell you: I am sooo not the target audience for their ads!

[Michael Wright]

Back to pens - I never understood the lifetime warranty offered by some pen companies. To me this sounds like a reverberation from gimmicks of the distance past. Limited warranty makes fiscal sense. Or wait maybe they could sell extended warranty for 20% extra . Or maybe that 20% extra is already in the price

At the risk of thread-creep:

 

Lifetime guarantee makes sense to me. Most things that are going to go wrong with a pen from a QC point of view will happen early on in its life, when either a limited guarantee or the doctrine of merchantable quality will apply anyway.

 

After a couple of years, most pens will fail because of accidental damage -- which a lifetime guarantee could easily exclude. And after a few more years, most pens will be lost or put in a drawer or forgotten. And the guarantees only apply to the original purchaser.

 

So I expect the manufacturers with l-t. gs get a fairly small number of claims against something that enables them to keep healthy margins. And when they do make good on it -- as Cross did on a pen I bought on the other side of the world, five years before -- they get a customer who is well pleased and will tell other people about the quality of the company, as I am doing now.

 

So I guess it's a fairly sound business proposition, since it helps you avoid getting pulled into a price war, without being snobby and engaging in retail price maintenance (which is illegal in many jurisdictions) like MB.

 

Michael

 

who manage to haul it back onto topic -- phewww

[Titivillus]

Back to pens - I never understood the lifetime warranty offered by some pen companies. To me this sounds like a reverberation from gimmicks of the distance past. Limited warranty makes fiscal sense. Or wait maybe they could sell extended warranty for 20% extra . Or maybe that 20% extra is already in the price

Maybe if a company was sure enough in their product that they believed that it was of such a quality that it would require no warranty repair during it's lifetime then a lifetime warranty isn't a gimmick but an expression of what the company feels about the pen?

 

 

food for thought.

 

K

[antoniosz]

Maybe if a company was sure enough in their product that they believed that it was of such a quality that it would require no warranty repair during it's lifetime then a lifetime warranty isn't a gimmick but an expression of what the company feels about the pen?

I think that lifetime warranty is a gimmick, because it is practically difficult for a company would know how a pen will perform under "regular" use after "many" years? What is lifetime (how many centuries )? It seems that the companies simply "count" on the fact that a very small percent of users will eventually return their pens. After all what is regular use of a pen? Is brassing resulting from regular usage? Does it make sense to guarantee brassing for a pen's lifetime? If a pen breaks when it falls - below what height is it regular use and above what heigh is it an accident?

 

We could also consider returning the Jade and other Balances to Sheaffer for discoloration I guess this is why Sheaffer discontinued the lifetime warranty in 1947, only to resurface it in the new era of despiration in mid sixties.

 

Incidentally, I also think that the warranty issue is the main reason that flex nibs are not produced today. The "lifetime" warranty of the Sheaffers resulted in the domination of the famous Sheaffer nail-like nibs (because they were MUCH less prone to damage than the soft/flex nibs).

 

Anyway, I am digressing from the subject here....

 

I think despite the fact that the poll is non-scientific and the sample relatively small that the results give a very good picture of the reality for MB pens. That is:

 

1) The fragility of MB pens is not as widespread as people think.

2) The image-based promotion of MB has irritated a lot of people

3) In general MBs are decent pens - if we can buy them at a reasonable price.

 

I think that 2) and 3) can be said for many other modern companies

 

Or maybe more people will vote and will change the result :ph34r:

[Michael Wright]

Maybe if a company was sure enough in their product that they believed that it was of such a quality that it would require no warranty repair during it's lifetime then a lifetime warranty isn't a gimmick but an expression of what the company feels about the pen?

I think that lifetime warranty is a gimmick, because it is practically difficult for a company would know how a pen will perform under "regular" use after "many" years? What is lifetime (how many centuries )? It seems that the companies simply "count" on the fact that a very small percent of users will eventually return their pens.

Maybe this should be a separate thread, but I've seen terms of at least one Lifetime Guarantee that states that the lifetime in question is that of the original purchaser.

 

With any guarantee, you count on the fact that most products won't have to be fixed -- and if you get that badly wrong, the company goes bung pdq (this has collapsed a number of SupaCheepie computer companies here in NZ). Guarantees normally exclude fair wear and tear -- does anyone know if sacs/diaphragms were covered in the '30s? It would pretty certainly not cover "normal" brassing.

 

All guarantees are a bit of a bet; I wouldn't call the lifetime guarantee exactly a gimmick, though its psychological effect and brand positioning is probably more important than real value to the consumer.

 

Best

 

Michael

[saturation]

Ah, at least there is passion when it comes to MB owners, isn't it?

 

As for lifetime warranty, as I mentioned in my example, I sent in two Parkers for repair, at least 10 and another 20 years old, see my earlier posts for details. One poster on this thread comments on a new Parker with a nib issue that the owner was blaimed for. I would have made an issue of it.

 

I've learned from consumer rights folks to fight back ... its actually quite easy and not time consuming.

 

send the item back to the seller for refund

Buy with a credit card to avail of their dispute system

email or call the Attorney General of your state, focused on 'Consumer Fraud.' Its basically a free 'lawyer letter' to stiffen the sinews, and summon up the blood and warns them they eye of the law is on them

 

In the US system, the burden of proof rests with the vendor

[Stylo]

I have a low end MB with the "precious resin", but it is a BP. Does that count? It is a nice pen, and since I got it as a graduation present from my aunt, I will never get rid of it. In any case, I haven't even yet reconciled with the concept of selling away any of my pens. Would you sell off or trade any of your children?

 

But I do think Montblanc is the quintessial pen of the bourgeoisie