What Type of FP Should a Lawyer Use

[MikoB1]

There is an interesting thread in the Montblanc forum about whether an interviewee should use an MB pen during a job interview. Got me to thinking, how would a jury perceive a lawyer using a fountain pen during a trial. I personally prefer using a fountain pen but am careful to go with something understated. Also need to use something that holds a lot of ink as I don't want to be fooling around with ink changes in the middle of a case. What do you all think or reccomend. Any different answer for a judge trial without a jury. If you respond let me know if you are lawyers or non-lawyers--I would be interested to know if non-lawyers have a different spin on the subject. What pens would you suggest to use or to avoid.

Edited May 8, 2008 by MikoB1

[Deirdre]

I know you have awesome taste in pens, so I'm sure you have a bunch that'd work for this purpose.

 

There was a thread about this, and one suggestion was the Pelikan M800 or M1000 -- I think that's an excellent choice. Also, the Sailor King of Pen or the Danitrio Raw Ebonite pens in the larger sizes.

 

Personally, I'd go with a non-black (but conservative) pen.

[MikoB1]

I know you have awesome taste in pens, so I'm sure you have a bunch that'd work for this purpose.

 

There was a thread about this, and one suggestion was the Pelikan M800 or M1000 -- I think that's an excellent choice. Also, the Sailor King of Pen or the Danitrio Raw Ebonite pens in the larger sizes.

 

Personally, I'd go with a non-black (but conservative) pen.

 

I like the idea of the Danitrio raw ebonite--with an eyedropper filler. Would hold a ton of ink and is unobtrusive. Now I have to figure out where to get one!

[mysta rave]

The M1000 is not an understated pen! I think it would attract attention. Unrelated, but I used a Parker Sonnet at a medical school interview because I didn't want to draw attention to the pen. I think expensive pens make people think that the user is ostentatious...people just don't understand our hobby!

 

As for your question, I would use something simple that's black and comfortable. Raw ebonite would be a great choice, I second that opinion.

[Deirdre]

The M1000 is not an understated pen!

I guess that depends on one's definition of "understated."

 

I'm not quite "Legally Blonde" out there color-wise, but halfway between normal and there, I think.

 

[mysta rave]

The M1000 is not an understated pen!

I guess that depends on one's definition of "understated."

 

I'm not quite "Legally Blonde" out there color-wise, but halfway between normal and there, I think.

 

I didn't mean color-wise. Its color is subtle, but the size is huge compared to the average pen. I'm assuming the OP was referring to something that wasn't eye catching.

[Deirdre]

The M1000 is not an understated pen!

I guess that depends on one's definition of "understated."

 

I'm not quite "Legally Blonde" out there color-wise, but halfway between normal and there, I think.

 

I didn't mean color-wise. Its color is subtle, but the size is huge compared to the average pen. I'm assuming the OP was referring to something that wasn't eye catching.

Hmm. I haven't been in a lot of courtrooms (not being a lawyer), but most of them were large enough that I'm not sure that they'd be able to really tell the difference between an M200 and an M1000 across the room without some help. There's 3/4" difference, sure, but most people won't notice.

 

That said, two M800s is probably a more prudent solution than a single M1000.

[satrap]

I have a friend who is a retired assistant prosecutor. He used any and every pen. I once gave him a Recife Crystal. He filled it with a green ink. When he was signing documents in front of the judge, she said to him, "It's GREEN, Mr. P". He said, "Yes, your honor".

 

He also told me that it was a complete myth that there is some 'legal' reason for using black ink, so he never used it.

[scribe75]

I have a friend who is a retired assistant prosecutor. He used any and every pen. I once gave him a Recife Crystal. He filled it with a green ink. When he was signing documents in front of the judge, she said to him, "It's GREEN, Mr. P". He said, "Yes, your honor".

 

He also told me that it was a complete myth that there is some 'legal' reason for using black ink, so he never used it.

 

Though in certain courthouses, there is a requirement to use black or blue ink, at least where I live. Whether it is permanence of ink of an officially required color, I don't know.

 

Having said that, the pen I might use in court could change depending on the type of jury I was in front of. In a criminal trial, one might be somewhat indifferent as to the pen in use as the jury is likely to be a polyglot, many of whom are not going to know a FP from a RB from a BP. Case in point, I know a local criminal defense attorney who handles many high profile cases. He has quite a collection of FPs and does not hesitate to pull them out in front of his clients, the judge and the jury. It may have something to do with advertising his commercial success in the court room, "so don't mess with me!"

 

A civil tort case might have a slightly more sophisticated jury empaneled. There I might be a little more conservative as to the flashiness of pen selection. Some may take it the wrong way and think of ostentation on the part of the attorney if the pen has too much gold or splash to it. I suggest you "play to your audience" and take a pocket full of pens. You'll have a sense of your jury after voir dire and so can adjust your selection accordingly. It also allows you a range of ink colors.

 

One other thought I had is, do you represent the plaintiff or the defense? In your courthouse, are you then seated closer to the jury or farther away? If the latter, it may not matter. Does the Judge care or is he/she blind to all but the facts?

 

Lots of things to consider. Good luck!!

[Deirdre]

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking: grey Visconti LE Wall Street.

 

It has the classic Vacumatic look to it, it has pinstripes, and it has the double-reservoir thing going for it.

 

One of the problems of an ebonite eyedropper is the utter inability to know how much ink you've got left (unless there's some transparent portion). The Wall Street doesn't have that handicap.

[piembi]

Personally I would use either one of the classics like a Pelikan M x00 greenstriped or maybe black or one of the understatement pens like Lamy 2K or Parker 51. All of them are very reliable and hold lots of ink.

 

I would avoid pens with lot's of bling or rolled gold caps and "show off" pens like the modern Montblancs. A vintage MB would be another story, though

[aurrida]

Who would have thought a lawyers pen could make the difference between a custodial or not. I guess if i was able to be in the presence of a Danitrio during the verdict it would make a custodial a little more palatable. I wonder what pen has the best acquittal statistics?

[Glenn-SC]

He also told me that it was a complete myth that there is some 'legal' reason for using black ink, so he never used it.

In the old days photocopiers were "blind" to some colors and would not copy them.

Just as B&W film was blind to yellow (it came out white).

The Federal Government required signatures be in blue or black so that they would reproduce when copied.

 

Copiers these days don't have that problem.

[OldGriz]

Understated..... MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

 

Basic Black Vacumatic.... simple, black and holds a ton of ink and every one I have has a gorgeous nib

Basic Black Parker 51 Vac fill with Lusterloy cap.... same as above... but has a simpler cap to remove...

[kazoolaw]

Number of people responding = number of different opinions.

 

I always carry two pens into a trial, both to make sure I have a back-up should the ink run out, and to have a different size pen to give my fingers a break.

 

One of those pens is always a 51. Understated, reliable, and holds enough ink on its own for a full day.

 

I've only had one judge comment on my FP, and he wanted a recommendation about what he should ask his wife to buy him for a present.

 

Flashy vs conservative: one of my bosses always drove his Ford station wagon to court as he didn't want to alienate the jury in a small town. The other drove his DeVille: wanted everyone to know a good attorney was in town.

 

My take: as in everything else, be yourself. Pen, nib, ink color, choice of ties, cut of your suit, all of it.

 

gary

 

PS - Quick story. In judge's chambers,around a conference table: hard core judge, condescending opposing counsel. Opposing counsel pulls out a Delta Dolce Vita ball point/roller(?) and proceeds to wave it around while making his points, and then lays it on the table. I reach in my pocket, pull out my Delta Dolce Vita OS fountain pen, take a few notes, and lay it on the table in the same line of vision at the BP. Counsel puts his little pen away, and listens a little closer.

Sometimes size matters.

Edited May 8, 2008 by gary

[goodguy]

We had this discution about a year ago.

A lawyer here said he will try to use a non flashy fountain pen,something that holds a lot of ink,cause him great joy to use but no one else will pay attantion.

He is using a Parker Vacumatic.

I think taking an Oversize Parker Vacumatic or the Parker Vacumatic Maxima (both pens hold more ink then there standard size pens) should be good pens to take for a trial.

I'd also take as a back up a Parker 51 (another pen that doesnt attract attantion).

[Kurt]

I'm a lawyer, a pen collector and don't pay extra for "mint" pens because I like to use them all. So, I do. You will first notice everyone sitting around the conference table looking at your hand because they have never seen a fountain pen before or, if they have, they have never seen anyone actually use one.

 

Use them all and change pens daily to keep the idiots on their toes. I can write all day with a Parker 51 vacumatic or aerometric -- depending on the size of the nib. Notice that a good majority of vintage pens are fine point and there is a reason. Fine points use less ink and write longer without refilling. I have a variety of 51s I use, including a 14K solid gold one with my initials engraved on it. Parker vacumatics are also good and understated.

 

However, I would not use a Mont Blanc Le Grande. It's just plain to damn big and exudes ego. Also, don't jeopardize using something expensive and exotic that the bumpkins wouldn't appreciate anyway. If someone knows something about pens, I might take along my A+++ 1928 Duofold Mandarin Yellow, Lapis Blue or white marbled but I would NOT post the caps. Those old caps shrink and will crack if posted as tight as a modern pen. Leave your Parker snake pen at home.

 

A Mont Blanc Bordeaux is nice, understated and holds a lot of ink. And the five star "snow cap" Mont Blanc logo is unmistakable even to the uninitiated.

 

Just don't flourish around a fountain pen like a fake Rolex. Use it in the normal manner like it's no big deal, cap it when not in use and don't be too chicken to take out a bottle of ink or ink pot to fill the thing up when it needs it.

 

You will also find that, although the others clearly notice your pen, no one will say anything. Big Egos never compliment anyone on anything, particularly in an adversarial environment, and they would not dare ask any questions and risk exposing their ignorance. However, keep an eye on your stuff. My favorite maroon, double jeweled Parker 51 with a 14K gold cap disappeared during a break in one of those meetings and I couldn't say anything. It was a vacumatic and I just hoped that whichever idiot stole it was too stupid to know how to fill the thing. Other than the mechanical challenge, bottles of ink aren't sold at Staples or Office Depot anymore. I use brown ink which is even harder for a stupid theif to get.

 

First aside: Do not use a fountain pen if you are left handed and wearing French cuffs.

 

Second aside: I found that for some reason it is easier to take notes with a fountain pen and easier to read later. They force me to write legibly.

 

Third aside: Use any color ink other than black. Once documents are photocopied it's hell to differentiate the originals from the copies. A signature made with blue or brown ink is instantly recognizable. But remember, black and white laser photocopiers still can't pick up the color blue very well, so a blue signature may not appear clear or complete. Brown ink is no problem.

 

Fourth aside: If you use a vintage pen, write with it a lot in the privacy of your own office to make sure it doesn't leak before you go public and ruin your $130 white shirt.

 

Fifth aside: Taking most vintage pens on an airplane should not be a problem, but I don't take chances. The thing goes into a Zip Lock bag in my brief case during a flight. Increased air pressure inside the pen may push out ink through cracks that are unnoticable to the naked eye.

 

And don't keep pulling up your left sleeve so people can see your bejeweled watch.

[simonrob]

There is an interesting thread in the Montblanc forum about whether an interviewee should use an MB pen during a job interview. Got me to thinking, how would a jury perceive a lawyer using a fountain pen during a trial. I personally prefer using a fountain pen but am careful to go with something understated. Also need to use something that holds a lot of ink as I don't want to be fooling around with ink changes in the middle of a case. What do you all think or reccomend. Any different answer for a judge trial without a jury. If you respond let me know if you are lawyers or non-lawyers--I would be interested to know if non-lawyers have a different spin on the subject. What pens would you suggest to use or to avoid.

 

You can't go wrong with a pen that's fairly dark and lets you know how much ink is left. But based on judges I know (I don't do trials, though) I suspect it doesn't matter - they tend to use cheap ballpoints or pencils themselves, can't see what you're writing with if you're at the podium, and are probably sitting too far away to see what you're writing while seated. I would be amazed if they noticed, or cared if they did.

 

Simon

[Songwind]

If you are really worried about it, I think a Rotring or a Lamy would be a good choice. Their profiles don't say "Fountain Pen!!!!!!!," so anyone not right there at the table with you will likely think you just have the latest space-age roller or ballpoint.

 

That said, I just don't see why it would be a big deal. Most people don't know or care about fountain pens, so unless you are going to trot out some sort of platinum plated showpiece, I doubt it would incite comment.

[playpen]

A lawyer should use a fountain pen that writes.