Overwhelmed by Choices

[Songwind]

Right now I am saving up for my next pen purchase, which I plan to be somewhere in the US$150-$250 range. That's a lot of money for me to spend on a pen, and won't happen often. Predictably, I have been thinking about it a lot.

 

I'm really starting to feel spoiled for choice.

 

Right now I am feeling most strongly torn between:

 

Pilot Falcon from Richard Binder

Pelikan M400 or M600, possibly w/ a cursive italic nib, from RB.

Pilot Custom 823

Menlo from Brian at Edison Pen

 

I was curious what experiences the board has had with pens like these, particularly anyone who owns more than one.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[CraigR]

Eric, I can help with 2 of your options. I have a Pilot Falcon with a cursive italic nib and a M600 with a cursive italic nib, both from Richard. Either one is a great pen. I favor the M600 because I love the Pelikans and it feels better in my hand. The Falcon is a great writer too though. As a side note, I usually ask Richard to adjust the ink flow to a 7 out of 10 (his system). This gives a nice wet line that works well with most inks I have tried. Hope this helps. /Craig

[FrankB]

It feels great to have so many choices, doesn't it? Back in the 50's and 60's in the small towns in which I lived, choices were not that great, despite what many people think.

 

I have been reading your posts with interest, but I cannot recall if you already have other Pelikan pens. Any of the pens you mention will be a good choice, but I am prejudice in favor of a Pelikan. For a solid, reliable writer I feel it is hard to beat a Pelikan. For a comfortable size, an M-600 would probably be a preferred choice. If you get the pen from Richard, it will flow well and be an excellent writer out of the box.

 

I keep bringing up the interchangeable nib feature. If a pen in this price range is only occasional for you, I think you will get much more mileage out of a Pelikan Souverain. Once you have the pen in hand, it is easy to acquire additional nibs without breaking the bank. That level of versatility is not available with the other three pens on your short list.

 

Good luck, and have fun with your decision.

[Songwind]

The interchangeability factor weighed in the decision for sure. It doesn't hurt that the 600 will accept 2xx nibs, so I could get a stub or whatever to try in steel if it was an experiment.

 

I like the idea of a piston filler as well, which is only an option from the Pilot 823.

[simonrob]

Right now I am saving up for my next pen purchase, which I plan to be somewhere in the US$150-$250 range. That's a lot of money for me to spend on a pen, and won't happen often. Predictably, I have been thinking about it a lot.

 

I'm really starting to feel spoiled for choice.

 

Right now I am feeling most strongly torn between:

 

Pilot Falcon from Richard Binder

Pelikan M400 or M600, possibly w/ a cursive italic nib, from RB.

Pilot Custom 823

Menlo from Brian at Edison Pen

 

I was curious what experiences the board has had with pens like these, particularly anyone who owns more than one.

 

Thanks,

Eric

 

 

I have no experience of the fourth option, but own a couple of Namiki Falcons, several Pelikans and a Pilot 823. I think they're all impressive pens in their different ways. I would recommend the Falcon (which you should be able to get for well under $150, by the way, unless you want significant modification by RB) if you want to experience a modern semi-flexible nib. You could pay RB to make it more flexible, or add to your line variation possibilities by making it an italic/stub of some sort and/or oblique. If you're merely interested in flex, stick with a fine nib. I would add, though, that this is a rather modest looking pen - nothing wrong with that, of course (especially since they write so well), but unlike the others you're considering it doesn't have "significant purchase" written all over it. If the filling mechanism is a big deal for you, note that the cc in this one works extremely well, better than most western ones.

 

As for the Pelikan, they're excellent writers (especially if acquired via RB, and especially with a stub/italic/oblique modification) and, unlike the Falcon, look like significant purchases. I've no idea which size would fit your hand better; otherwise you won't find a significant difference in how they perform. I happen to prefer the nibs in their vintage predecessors (there's no vintage 600, but there are vintage 400s and the 400NN with its rounded end), which tend to be flexible; their left obliques in various widths are expecially good. But if you're not interested in flex, a Binderized modern Pelikan nib is marvelous.

 

The Pilot 823 is a grand, conservative-looking pen, considerably bigger than the others you're considering and with an enormous ink capacity (which is visible since, as you presumably know, the barrel is translucent); the plunger-fill mechanism works well. The drawback is that it only comes with a standard, firm, round-tipped nib. It does its job extremely well, but compared to the flexible and/or stub/italic/obliques you're considering strikes me as rather boring. You can always send it for modification to RB (if you take that route, get a broad nib), but be prepared to wait.... (For that reason you might want to consider a 743 instead, where the range of available nibs is much wider, for some reason, including several that are "soft" and one that's a bit more flexible than the Namiki Falcon's; no stub/italic/oblique, however, and it's cc, not plunger-fill.) I assume you know that, unless you find one for sale in the marketplace here or at pentrace, you'll need to import it from Japan.

 

Simon

 

[Songwind]

I have no experience of the fourth option, but own a couple of Namiki Falcons, several Pelikans and a Pilot 823. I think they're all impressive pens in their different ways. I would recommend the Falcon (which you should be able to get for well under $150, by the way, unless you want significant modification by RB) if you want to experience a modern semi-flexible nib. You could pay RB to make it more flexible, or add to your line variation possibilities by making it an italic/stub of some sort and/or oblique. If you're merely interested in flex, stick with a fine nib. I would add, though, that this is a rather modest looking pen - nothing wrong with that, of course (especially since they write so well), but unlike the others you're considering it doesn't have "significant purchase" written all over it. If the filling mechanism is a big deal for you, note that the cc in this one works extremely well, better than most western ones.

 

As for the Pelikan, they're excellent writers (especially if acquired via RB, and especially with a stub/italic/oblique modification) and, unlike the Falcon, look like significant purchases. I've no idea which size would fit your hand better; otherwise you won't find a significant difference in how they perform. I happen to prefer the nibs in their vintage predecessors (there's no vintage 600, but there are vintage 400s and the 400NN with its rounded end), which tend to be flexible; their left obliques in various widths are expecially good. But if you're not interested in flex, a Binderized modern Pelikan nib is marvelous.

 

The Pilot 823 is a grand, conservative-looking pen, considerably bigger than the others you're considering and with an enormous ink capacity (which is visible since, as you presumably know, the barrel is translucent); the plunger-fill mechanism works well. The drawback is that it only comes with a standard, firm, round-tipped nib. It does its job extremely well, but compared to the flexible and/or stub/italic/obliques you're considering strikes me as rather boring. You can always send it for modification to RB (if you take that route, get a broad nib), but be prepared to wait.... (For that reason you might want to consider a 743 instead, where the range of available nibs is much wider, for some reason, including several that are "soft" and one that's a bit more flexible than the Namiki Falcon's; no stub/italic/oblique, however, and it's cc, not plunger-fill.) I assume you know that, unless you find one for sale in the marketplace here or at pentrace, you'll need to import it from Japan.

 

Thank you. That's an excellent summary, and really hits the high points of the jumble I was going through.

 

I think part of the problem is that I am interested in a few competing features, that seem pretty hard to find together.

• Nib with line variation - flexible or italic
• Integral fill
• Elegant and/or Interesting Appearance
• Cost. Life is what it is, and I have never been in the position to say "money is no object."

Each of my current options combines different elements of the above. The Falcon has a flexible nib and an interesting shape (though not my favorite) and is very cost-effective for the features.

The Pelikan is a piston filler, and from Richard I would get the italic nib or even flex. It's a fairly elegant looking pen but with some color. The interchangeable nib parts would allow different writing experiences as money/interest dictated. OTOH, a semi-flex nib from Richard costs as much as a Falcon.

 

The 823 is pretty pricey ($185 on eBay being the best price I have seen) but it is a piston filler with a classic and elegant look. No real nib options, though. Further, it is a demonstrator, and I have been reading that my favorite non-black colors (green and purple) are among the worst for staining.

 

I have considered going with a Pelikan M200 rather than the 4xx/6xx. I'm not sure if the size is different enough to really bother me. My Libelle Epic is about the same size and I have no problems with it.

[Songwind]

So, having worked myself up over this idea, I was looking at the pens at Richard's. Because I'm a masochist, I guess.

 

I noticed that the stats except weight between the M200 and M400 are identical. So, what's the real difference? Why is the 400 $100+ more? Is it just the 14k nib? Something I am not thinking of? Surely it can't be the stripes.

[HDoug]

I noticed that the stats except weight between the M200 and M400 are identical. So, what's the real difference? Why is the 400 $100+ more? Is it just the 14k nib? Something I am not thinking of? Surely it can't be the stripes.

 

I think it's just trim and nib (gold vs. steel) differences.

 

By the way, I have a Falcon and M605, both with Binder .5mm cursive italics, both great writers. If I had to choose, I think I'd go with the M605 because the nibs are swappable. I had to go without the Falcon for months while it was in Mr. Binder's queue! The Pelikan nib I just ordered and it got to me in a few days.

 

Doug

 

[simonrob]

The 823 is pretty pricey ($185 on eBay being the best price I have seen) but it is a piston filler with a classic and elegant look. No real nib options, though. Further, it is a demonstrator, and I have been reading that my favorite non-black colors (green and purple) are among the worst for staining.

 

I have considered going with a Pelikan M200 rather than the 4xx/6xx. I'm not sure if the size is different enough to really bother me. My Libelle Epic is about the same size and I have no problems with it.

 

To be pedantic, the 823 isn't a *piston* filler but a plunger filler like some vintage Sheaffers, Onotos etc. It's still an integral filling mechanism, and it still fills up the whole barrel, but the actual process is a bit different (with a piston you just unscrew/screw; with the plunger you unscrew, pull out the end (a few inches; it's attached via a thin rod), firmly push it back in, wait a few seconds while it fills, then remove and tighten the end (the ink flow varies somewhat with how far you tighten it). It's messier to describe than actually do. My only real practical concern is the suspicion that plungers aren't as durable as pistons, but that's just a hunch (I vaguely recall RB telling me at the last Philadelphia pen show that he's had to repair some, but perhaps he or someone else can chime in with a more definite observation).

 

As for your question re Pelikan M200 vs the 400 or 600, the main difference as a practical matter is that the 200 nib is steel, while the others are gold. But I rather doubt anyone could tell the difference if they didn't know which was which - I've used all three with RB cursive italics and stubs and all write extremely well, the steel every bit as well as the gold. It only matters if you want him to add flex - I'm pretty sure he only does that to gold nibs. For the price of a more expensive pen you could get a 200 plus several different nibs to swap according to your mood.

 

They differ aesthetically too, of course, except for the all-black versions, which look much the same regardless of model (and very nice, too, but then I'm rather partial to black pens). This is subjective, of course, but I don't think the non-black 200s look as good as the non-black 400/600 etc. I guess the ones with the streaked/marbled blue or grey or green finish are supposed to be throwbacks to the 100/100N, but you would never confuse the two - the old ones definitely look like "the real thing", the new ones a cheap imitation (though I quite like the grey one; you can get a discontinued older version with a domed cap-top on ebay easily enough). There's no M200 equivalent to the classic Pelikan green/black stripe.

 

If I was in your position I would be sorely tempted to get a black Pelikan 200 and several different nibs.

 

Simon

 

 

[Lloyd]

As for your question re Pelikan M200 vs the 400 or 600, the main difference as a practical matter is that the 200 nib is steel, while the others are gold.

Also, the 600 is bigger than the 200/400.

[Songwind]

As for your question re Pelikan M200 vs the 400 or 600, the main difference as a practical matter is that the 200 nib is steel, while the others are gold. But I rather doubt anyone could tell the difference if they didn't know which was which - I've used all three with RB cursive italics and stubs and all write extremely well, the steel every bit as well as the gold. It only matters if you want him to add flex - I'm pretty sure he only does that to gold nibs. For the price of a more expensive pen you could get a 200 plus several different nibs to swap according to your mood.

 

They differ aesthetically too, of course, except for the all-black versions, which look much the same regardless of model (and very nice, too, but then I'm rather partial to black pens). This is subjective, of course, but I don't think the non-black 200s look as good as the non-black 400/600 etc. I guess the ones with the streaked/marbled blue or grey or green finish are supposed to be throwbacks to the 100/100N, but you would never confuse the two - the old ones definitely look like "the real thing", the new ones a cheap imitation (though I quite like the grey one; you can get a discontinued older version with a domed cap-top on ebay easily enough). There's no M200 equivalent to the classic Pelikan green/black stripe.

 

If I was in your position I would be sorely tempted to get a black Pelikan 200 and several different nibs.

 

Simon

 

I'm kind of coming to the same conclusion. I got out my Libelle and measured it - it's the same size (unposted) as the M200, so I know the form factor wouldn't be a problem for me.

 

I could also get one a heck of a lot sooner than the M600.

 

Tempting.

[Songwind]

Also, the 600 is bigger than the 200/400.

 

Yes, I looked at that - but the difference is slight, and the M200 is the same size as my current favorite, so I don't think that's a problem.

[wpblaw]

Also, the 600 is bigger than the 200/400.

 

Yes, I looked at that - but the difference is slight, and the M200 is the same size as my current favorite, so I don't think that's a problem.

 

I have an M200 (purchased at INK, btw) and love it, but would probably grab an M600 because I like the substantial size of it. The M200 is smallish and if you already have a small pen, why get another? Unless you just hate the larger barrels, of course!

 

Good luck!!!

[Songwind]

I have an M200 (purchased at INK, btw) and love it, but would probably grab an M600 because I like the substantial size of it. The M200 is smallish and if you already have a small pen, why get another? Unless you just hate the larger barrels, of course!

 

Good luck!!!

 

The Libelle (which I tried at the same time as the M200) is in the "perfect" range for me. It's definitely a range rather than a size, though. The length doesn't much matter, so long is the pen unposted goes past the join of my thumb and fingers. The barrel width (on paper) of the M600 is just not that much wider. What is it, .02" or .03" wider?

[asamsky]

Have you considered going vintage? That opens up a huge number of options, and you might be able to find a pen that matches your criteria more closely (and possibly more cheaply).

[Songwind]

I have given it some thought, but that makes the choices even more overwhelming.

[Songwind]

My choices got a bit less overwhelming. An online friend, upon learning I have gotten interested in fountain pens, has decided to send me a Pelikan M200.

 

I think I will use some of my budget to get a Binderized italic nib, and see what else interests me. If it writes nicely, I am not sure I have any more immediate desire for another round-nibbed pen. That would leave something flexible on the "list."

[John Cullen]

My response probably says something about me, but I would recommend the Pelikan 600 over the 823. YOu have more nib choices with the 600 and can easily get it fixed in the US from a service that is generally considered very good to work with. If you get the 823 and need to repair it, I think you would have to send it to Japan. Maybe I am wrong and Namiki would repair it in the US? Also, with the 823, the nib is very smooth but you and others have commented on that. Even if you like the nib, it does not unscrew easily like a Pelikan. Also, opening the ink valve is a pain in the back.

 

Go with a Pelikan 600 from Binder and get exactly what you want from a professional who will service his work and make it right if you have a problem. And then you can buy custom nibs. I know people get sick of hearing others crow about Pelikan, but given all you have said, I think the Pelikan would make you happy in the short and long run.

 

just my nutty two cents worth,. j

[Rapt]

I really like my Pelikan M605 with Binder 0.5mm Cursive Italic.

 

But I also have a Pilot Custom 823 on my want list.