Adjusting Tines

[kenny]

I was told that for an ink like Noodler's Britannic Blue Waves to flow properly, the tines on the nib had to be adjusted to allow a small amount of light through.

 

Is this a common practice? I don't know how to adjust tines. How does one do it? Is it safe to do, or could you damage your nib?

 

How do you prevent the tipping from getting separated?....or, do you WANT a little separation in the tipping as well?

 

 

[Ernst Bitterman]

It's not generally done in response to a particular ink. It's something that CAN damage the point if you're not circumspect about it, but done with some care it's not irreversible (done with less care, and its probably not inbinderizable or immottishawable...), and the process is best practiced on a pen you actively despise just in case it goes wrong. As long as the slit is narrower by the nibs than the breather, a little distance between the nibs isn't necessarily bad either, but there comes a point when it's beyond the power of capillary action to bridge the space. I wager there's a thread or two in the Repair forum.

[Rapt]

From Richard Binder's website page on Nib Basics....

 

Too Dry or Too Wet: If a nib writes but refuses to lay down enough ink to satisfy you, it is possible that the slit is too narrow for your writing style. Similarly, if the line is always too wet, the slit might be too wide. The slit width needs to be different for nibs of different sizes; that is, an XF needs a very tight slit if it is not to throw too much ink, while a BB needs a much wider slit to supply the large quantity of ink needed. But there is a balance here; too narrow a slit produces a dry writer, and a slit that’s too wide dumps more ink than the nib can handle, leading to uneven lines and slow drying.

 

As a general rule, the nib tines should not touch each other when the nib is at rest. The firmer or more rigid the nib, the more important it is that the tines not touch; if they do, and and especially if the edges of the slit are improperly finished, the nib is likely to suffer an extreme case of the “too dry” syndrome. As with most rules, however, there is an exception. A flexible nib’s tines touch at the tip when the nib is at rest; in fact, they are slightly sprung so that if you move one tine slightly up or down, the two tips will overlap very slightly.

 

There's lots more information on that site if you want to learn a bunch more... http://www.richardspens.com/

[JDFlood]

Caution on this one. I would never adjust for an ink. I would guess even amoung pen crazies, it is not that common to adjust tines. I would only do it if you personal history is full of little fix it projects that were completely successful and that most people would never have attempted. Start on a $5 pens, do several to prove you understand the process completely. Personally, I don't even work on my bicycles. I don't have the patience, and seldom does it go well. I have spread a few tines. I used and single edge razor blade. I think works well as a spreader / gauge. I have fixed half a dozen pens that were dry writers. But then I was trying to fix a new Parker 100 and turned the blade just a tad and the nib disintegrated (the nib is constructed very differently than most pens).. the repair bill would have been nearly $200... I just tossed it. Good luck. JD

[Paddler]

All of my pens, when cleaned and dried properly, show light between the tines. If there is slightly too much space, you will have to store / carry the pen horizontally or it won't start right away.

 

Paddler

 

[Rapt]

Just for clarity it is possible (with a clean gap) to see light through a gap of less than .0005" (thats half a thousandth of an inch).

 

So I'd say if in a clean dry nib you can't see light then there is no gap.

 

Whether its wise for a person to spread their own tines is an entirely different question...

[hunter186]

I've opened the tines a bit on a few of my pens. I recently ordered the nib flossing kit from Tryphon, which comes with some brass and plastic sheet. Before this, I used a bit of 35mm film negative. I usually started with a corner of the sheet in the breather hole, and slid the plastic down the nib to the tipping. It's a very easy adjustment, but you don't want to go too far. It's easy to increase the spread, but seems much trickier to reduce it.

 

I've done this mostly on fine nibs that were too dry for my tastes. I agree with the recommendation to start with a cheap pen.

 

I would be hesitant to adjust a pen for a specific ink. If the ink really behaves differently than other inks, you might be stuck using it.

[Escribiente]

For a while now, I have been successful in slightly increasing the flow. I've seen with horror the thin blade technique used by some (they run a blade between the thines), and it seems to work, but when you examine the nib you find horrible destruction in the nib. Please, don't use it.

 

I try to use a method that is less invasive. First, I floss the nib using Richard Binder smoothing kit. If this hasn't increased the flow enough. I try the method described by John Mottishaw. These to techniques have produced excellent results in almost every pen.

 

[georges zaslavsky]

Personally if an ink is problematic with pens don't use it. All my MBs that I have bought a Mora (four) were completely overhauled and three of them had their feeds changed by a new one. I also said that I use only waterman ink in my MBs, the writing performance and combination of waterman ink + MB pen is excellent. I also use waterman for my lapis lazulis senior single band Duofold. I use private reserve for my jade green senior single band Duofold and no probs. In my french vac maxima, I use MB bordeaux and zero probs and for my pelikan I use MB green british. I only us the sailor grey ink in my 1959 parker slimfold aerometric. The ink is good but it is far to be as good as waterman, mb or private reserve.

Edited March 14, 2008 by georges zaslavsky

[Mike S.]

For a while now, I have been successful in slightly increasing the flow. I've seen with horror the thin blade technique used by some (they run a blade between the thines), and it seems to work, but when you examine the nib you find horrible destruction in the nib. Please, don't use it.

 

I try to use a method that is less invasive. First, I floss the nib using Richard Binder smoothing kit. If this hasn't increased the flow enough. I try the method described by John Mottishaw. These to techniques have produced excellent results in almost every pen.

 

 

I'm with you. I use these two methods and avoid the razor blade approach. If the two methods described by Richard and John don't work, there's likely something else going on besides the size of the slit between the tines (a poorly cut ink feed channel, some sort of debris or manufacturing residue in the feed channel, etc.)

 

Mike

[Paddler]

I think someone tried the"razor blade method" on the P51 I bought. They practically made a basket case out of the pen and then sold it. I didn't even look for that kind of damage at that point in my pursuit of this sport. Egad, what a pain in the neck it was to get that nib working well again! If it wasn't a 1943 vintage pen, I would have put it in the parts box. A pen with that much history deserves to be fixed and writing again.

 

Many of my pens show light between the tipping halves and many do not. As long as the tips are not tight together, I can't tell the difference when I write with them. I have tinkered with a few tips now, and haven't had the misfortune of losing a bead. Knock on wood. Cross fingers, eyes, arms, legs. Cross everything!

 

Paddler

 

[kenny]

Does anyone have a picture showing the appropriate amount of light that should be seen through the tines?

[Rapt]

Read this article on John Mottishaw's website. http://nibs.com/Article6SmoothingAdjusting.htm

 

Then, look closely at the last picture. This is with the nib being flexed under pressure. The gap will close up a fair bit when its let go. Remember the slit should taper to the tip and be "almost closed" in the end.

 

How much is the right amount depends on many things, like how hard you press when writing, what your pen to paper angle is, how flexible the nib is, how wet a nib you want....

 

Lots and lots of variables so its vital to tweak it a TINY bit then try it. TINY is the important thing, because as the article says its much harder to go the other way.

 

In this case if its just with this particular ink then I'd say its even a smaller tweak... However I'd be sure that the feed channels are clear and there isn't deposits from changing inks and not cleaning totally between different inks long before I considered changing the nib.

 

If you aren't totally confident, or willing to sacrifice the nib or send it away to fix it if you mess it up then I'd not mess with it. I'd consider playing about with mixing flow aids into the ink first.

 

 

[fjf]

Britannia blue waves is only usable if you dilute it with other turquoise that is a pigment solution and not a suspension. Waterman southseas blue (50/50) works well. That ink is a mistake.

[kenny]

Boy. I'm not sure that ANY of my pens really let light through at the nib. Then again, maybe I'm not looking at them properly.

 

 

[Ernst Bitterman]

It's likely that with most of them, the feed will be in the way of light coming through-- it's only just perceptible, and with many modern points, not even that pronounced. I had an Esterbrook 1555 dismounted last night, and while it was a perfect poster for this topic, I don't begin to have the camera-power to take a useful picture. The wide end by the breather is rather less than 0.1mm.

[Rapt]

To see light through, you need to have a light surface and good strong light "backlighting" the nib. Depending you may also need to have no light behind or above you, or it needs to weak compared to the backlight.

 

You must also be perfectly square to the slit, if the nib is rotated even slightly it'll be enough to prevent you from seeing light.

 

Finally the nib must be clean and dry. Ink or water will fill the gap and prevent light from passing through.

 

Also are you used to looking at very fine dimension. To put this in perspective, we're talking about gaps of .001" or less. A sheet of 20lb (standard) office copy paper is about .003" thick, or an average human hair is about .002"... In other words really small, you may want to use a loup to see it.

[Paddler]

Many times, when I buy a pen in the wild, all the dried ink will not wash out of the slit. In these instances, I can't see any light at all through the slit. Sometimes, there is light coming through in some places and not in others. When that happens, I pull a piece of 00-gauge nylon thread through the slit from the tip down to the breather. That usually cleans out the slit and makes the pen write a wetter line. The thread is safer, I think, because it is nowhere near as thick as the shim stock usually used to floss a nib.

 

Paddler

 

[Rapt]

Also the Nylon has a lot of give to it so it will be more likely to compress than to force the tines apart.

[kenny]

Many times, when I buy a pen in the wild, all the dried ink will not wash out of the slit. In these instances, I can't see any light at all through the slit. Sometimes, there is light coming through in some places and not in others. When that happens, I pull a piece of 00-gauge nylon thread through the slit from the tip down to the breather. That usually cleans out the slit and makes the pen write a wetter line. The thread is safer, I think, because it is nowhere near as thick as the shim stock usually used to floss a nib.

 

Paddler

 

Where do you get this nylon thread?